Difference in '72 351c 4v engine data stickers? |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Posted: 21-March-2011 at 12:55PM |
Pondering a question: What is the difference between these two engines.
Both are 4v 351c valve covers. The orange is original to my Q code. The white came on a set off a 1972 4v engine, open chamber headed mystery motor that had been gone through... I'm putting my money and thinking the white decal is a off an HO engine, but the heads were open chambers, pedestal rockers that were non-adjustable. It did have the CJ balancer, which I kept as a spare.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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CheeseSteakJim
Member Joined: 27-August-2010 Location: West Granby, CT Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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The yellow valve cover is out of a 1972 Mustang.
Edited by CheeseSteakJim - 21-March-2011 at 1:22PM |
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Classicfitness
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'72 GTS 351-4b Gold Glow
'75 Elite 400 Polar White My car blog: www.fordtorino72.blogspot.com |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Yup!
The numbers on the lower right say
D2 that equals 72
O is for Fairlane Torino and Z is for Mustang
E= engine part
Here's a great breakdown of the numbers...
Edited by cowboyupdjcarl - 21-March-2011 at 1:51PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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iangj
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I have the yellow decal on both of my 351 CJ engines ( '72 & '73) but I have seen the silver one before.
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Ian Glyn-Jones
Fonthill, Ontario, Canada Wish I had My Baby Back Montego GT Registry Forum; http://mmgt.forumchitchat.com/ |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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The Mustang timing is set at a higher idle than the Torino.
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Hmm, odd, my original cover has the RPM set to 1000 RPM at idle...
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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mcford
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160 |
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mine was the orange one and was actually on the top of the passenger side fenderwell.
Edited by mcford - 23-March-2011 at 12:54AM |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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I never did get to see the underhood when Tom and family were on Powertour last year.
Love that car. Just not the idea of being in the south, in that heat and humidity, with NO ac and black vinyl seats. Swap ass for EVERYBODY!
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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mcford
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160 |
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that pic was before i re-did it, actually the first week i had the car home. this was about year after the engine bay being done.
Edited by mcford - 23-March-2011 at 6:00AM |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Andy I just went back and looked, I goofed earlier with the RPM thing.
That really makes me wonder...
The ORANGE one you said is original to your car is a "Z" in the part number... THAT is a Mustang part number. The WHITE decal is from a Torino.
So that brings up the question... how did you confirm your Q-Code was an original motor in your Torino? Because it has a Mustang "Z" orange decal on it. Does that mean the 72 Q-Code in your Torino was actually a mustang motor installed at the factory? Was this the way Ford did the early build Torino Q-Codes? And now did we just find a difference between Q-Code motors??
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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both the 1000 rpm idle manual trans & the 700 rpm idle auto trans engines are listed on the same line in the 1972 Service Specifications booklet as 351C 4V CJ. the manual trans dizzy gets .020" point gap while the auto trans gets .017" for the same 26*-30* dwell with an auto trans in California the idle gets set at 800 rather than 700... and in a Cougar with 12" converter, the initial is set to 10* & the idle gets set at 650
all 50 states the manual trans engine had a dual vacuum(adv & ret) distributor, and the auto trans had single (advance only). the springs in the auto auto trans dizzy were slightly stiffer than the manual trans except for the CA auto trans dizzy was slightly lighter
both engines would've come with a 4300-D carb, 4 different numbers but very little difference between any of them
if it has fixed pedestal rockers it's not an R code HO if you had the coil tags for each engine and the deciphering info that might tell more
the car line designator isn't an absolute, you'll find part number third digits 'out of place' all the time
Edited by Rockatansky - 23-March-2011 at 6:47AM |
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mcford
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160 |
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also to add to Rockatansky, just becasue it has a Z in the part numbr line doesnt mean its not for a torino. that is the car line it was orginally designated/designed for.
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mcford
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160 |
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Here is a picture of the decal on the 73 Q code GTS I had.
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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Ford may've combined the manual & auto trans stickers into one for 73?
here's what the rest of it looks like
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albo74
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Mcford, nice job under the hood , see you used the 72 air cleaner decal , moved the heater hoses good , like that, nice motocraft hose and wires, were the valve covers original to the car ? that could be why the sticker is on the fender well ,what about the firewall chalk ? One other ?, what did you do to clean up the inner fenders ,if just paint what was it ? my 73 sticker is Yellow
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albos73gts
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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it is just one of those things that for the future we would like to know in order to figure out what ORIGINAL and NUMBERS MATCHING in our cars really mean.
Right now if that is the original valve cover that came from the factory assembly line then how/why does it say Mustang? Something odd back in the day at the factory.
Think of it... are we saying that an all original documented Mustang could have had a white "O/Torino" sticker on it? What other parts are cross planted in the Ford lines that would create holy hell in a concourse judging or conversation by Bob Varsha at Barret Jackson?
I can here him commenting now...
The Torino does have the Q in the VIN so it did come from the factory with this style engine but the stickers show it came from a Mustang so at some point in this cars history it must have been replaced.
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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stanman
Senior Member Joined: 23-March-2007 Location: Nova Scotia, Ca Status: Offline Points: 1432 |
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This is a pic of the engine tag on my '72 Q-Code that I bought in 1978. Like McFord's, it's mounted on the right side inner fender. I'm 99% sure that's where it was mounted at the factory. It had M/T valve covers when I bought it, don't know what covers it had from the factory.
Edited by stanman - 23-March-2011 at 11:59AM |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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OK, looks like the 72 351 Q-Code motor was directly out of the Mustang along with stickers. It make sense if the motors were built in the same plant and then sent out to Torino Assembly plants.
Were all the Q-Code Torinos made in one plant?
So now what is the difference in the Mustang stickered motor and the Torino stickered motors?
SOMETHING was different definately different to have that much difference in the timing set up.
The Orange MUSTANG sticker shows 1000rpm for a stick in neutral
The White TORINO sticker shows 700rpm for an auto in neutral
McFord's 73 Orange MUSTANG sticker shows BOTH auto and stick rpms. From the pic though I cannot see if the sticker says 351C-4V like the 72 stickers do.
Was there a 351C 4bbl that came in an Auto specific to the Torino? NON Q-Code car?
THAT would explain ALOT! Edited by cowboyupdjcarl - 23-March-2011 at 12:39PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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iangj
Senior Member Joined: 06-March-2009 Location: Fonthill, ON Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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My '72 Montego GT is a confirmed and 100% original 38,000 mile car and has the yellow decal. My '73 MGT parts car also has the yellow decal and my buddies '72 GTS 4 speed car also has the yellow decal but is over on the right inner fender. The MGT's have it on the left valve cover.
All Montego GT's were built at Lorain. The GTS was built at Oakville.
BTW if anyone doing a resto and is looking for the OK stamp for the valve cover, I had one made and can lend it out. Just cover postage and ensure safe return. Edited by iangj - 23-March-2011 at 1:02PM |
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Ian Glyn-Jones
Fonthill, Ontario, Canada Wish I had My Baby Back Montego GT Registry Forum; http://mmgt.forumchitchat.com/ |
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Rockatansky
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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THAT didn't help me! lol
The distributor page shows
351C-4V in Torino and Montego ONLY as an Auto.
351C-4V in a Mustang and Cougar as a Manual only, with the Cougar Calif set up.
Then shows the HO in a Mustang only and as a Manual only.
But on the pages above it definatively shows the 351C-4V CJ is a DIFFERENT motor than the HO. AND the CJ came in the Cougar with an Automatic, that Cougar with an Auto gets a different timing set as well.
WHAT IS A 351 HO??
It is obvious from the literature it is DIFFERENT that the 351C CJ.
Both had 4V but different timing, idles, and timing curves.
Are we missing some type of drag pack, SCCA, low production, 351C hybrid of some sort?
the literature contradics itself!
This was printed in May of 72 which means that production was in full swing and the literature should have been pretty accurate.
Sorry, I am not trying to be difficult but this is mind boggling and just makes me REALLY wonder about the validity of Marti Reports and or any book of numbers we would be able to get our hands on.
Has anyone seen/heard of a 72 Cougar with a 351C CJ and an Auto tranny? Seriously is this the white elephant? Ford Engine literature above says NO TORINOs came with a 351C and a manual.
Has anyone seen a 302 in a Torino with a stick??
So IF this literature is wrong in so many of these areas... I HAVE to look at it as just fun to read and in no way shape or form accurate for anything in order to confirm or deny!
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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Skinnys Garage
Senior Member Joined: 26-February-2010 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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Yes, I've seen many '72 Cougars with a CJ and an automatic. Probably more automatics than 4-speeds in the up scale Cougar, CJ or not.
Yes, I've seen several '72-'73 Torino's with a 302 and a stick, they just weren't 4-speeds. You've got to think base models with three on the tree.
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Scott -'73 Gran Torino Brougham
Past Torino's -'73 Q-code GTS, '76 Original PS-122 S&H, '73 H-code GTS, '73 Ranchero '71 Cobra 351 Auto, '70 351C Brougham 2dr HT, '71 351C Ranchero |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Concerning 4 valve Clevelands:
From my reading, the 1972 CJ is the step below the boss motor in two areas: Cylinder heads on the 1971 boss were closed chambered, and the rods, while the same in the boss, did not get shot peening to relieve stress in the manufacturing of the rods. The 1972 HO is a detuned version of the 1971 Boss engine, from my understanding, with the open chamber heads. I had been trying to hunt for a pair of closed chambered 351c 4v heads for some time now. The shop that will be building my CJ said if I can't find the closed chambered boss heads, start with newer aluminum heads. Anyways, as far as the sticker, my Q code is original. In my discussions with the previous owner, he bought the car from his neighbor who bought it new. The engine had 101k on the clock and had never been cracked open. It smoked lightly before being parked, and that was my downfall...I should have never tore the engine apart, but I thankfully have all the pieces. Now, what I find curious is, the distributor I have off my CJ, from my recollection is a single and not the dual pickup. {Hard to say, but I am pretty sure it had been serviced at some point, but the tags were original '72. Now, digging the car out of the barn: {Still one of my favorite shots to this day from my jagged, worn memory... |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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maybe that's why the 'Mustang' tag on the manual trans engine
HO is VIN code R, here's the link again
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albo74
Senior Member Joined: 25-February-2006 Location: ME. USA Status: Offline Points: 616 |
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so H. O . (high output) R code was the one to have in 72 and air box decal most likely was a 351-4 V ? anyone got a factory R code 72 , in a non mustang ? u.k. ?
Edited by albo74 - 24-March-2011 at 10:14AM |
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albos73gts
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