Street performance |
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Posted: 10-December-2011 at 10:53AM |
First of all I need to learn more about cam specs.
I am looking to build a streetable but quick 351c. Not insane or a monster just fast street and all around performance cleveland. I have a few top end parts on my cleveland and I am in the process of trying to find headers because this is a swap car. Was a 302. What cam specs and heads should I be looking at ? I am only trying to search for another 50hp and this car will be fun. its a 4speed 351c 69 torino. Thanks.
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Nobody knows anyone that has ever built a non track car in here. Ok
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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For the heads, I don't know what is available for Cleveland but for street car, few comes to my mind, Edelbrock, AFR, ... You need to check online which models performs the best for your set up.
For the cam, it depends if street ability is a big concern to you, for me it's not so I can go with a fairly big cam and don't get bother a second with the way it act on the streets. |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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There are sooooo many options for cams and to learn about cams could be a month long class all by itself.
Best and easiest way to get a streetable but aggressive set up is to look at a package from the people that Ilyes mentioned... Jegs, Summit, Edelbrock etc... they have Head/Cam/Intake/Carb packages that deliver the best bang for the buck. They also break it down by desired outcome with in depth descriptions. Getting it all in a kit means you get the right Cam, Lifters, Push Rods, Rockers, Intake, and Carb along with all the other CORRECT supporting parts to ensure a PROPER build. Now, IF you go that way you SHOULD have the lower end completly rebuilt as well. Would REALLY SUCK if you spent the money on all that top end just to have the bottom end let go a couple days later after beating on it with all the new power from the top end. Here is the link... IF you are looking to just beef it for a nice sounding and performing street car... take it to the local machine shop and tell them to rebuild it and add some OOMPH they will build it on a budget for you and you will KNOW it is a good package that will last a long time. They will even help you pick out the right package from Edelbrock. |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Easy killer! be patient when you ask a question. We will get you as much and even more info than you probably could ever handle. As I said in the other reply... SOOOOO MANY variables in your questions. The very first variable to that question is... How much $$$ do you have in your pocket RIGHT NOW to spend on it? IF you have $300 and can do the work yourself, we will recommend a cam with timing chain that is a direct swap along with the gasket/kits you'll need to do it. $$ is ALWAYS the first thing to consider when doing a job like this... HOW MUCH do you have NOW or want to spend over some time. We can recommend an Edelbrock kit at $4,000 and you'll laugh at us for being too much or recommedn a $300 cam kit and you laugh at us being cheap. So give us some more info as to what your budget and timeline is. We will definately steer you in the RIGHT direction and maybe even have some parts to help in the meantime. as far as track versus street cars in here... I believe of ALL the cars in this forum there are maybe 2 that are track specific built cars, the rest here are street driven. |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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I stick with big block automatic equipped full frame cars. Can't speak for anyone else. Hence a lack of reply. Sorry.
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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So what do you have now, and how much of your money are we looking to spend?
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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This is strange. Sorry for being abrupt but none of these replies showed up til just now.
As far as money to spend I am looking at $3500 to $4500 to make a highway screamer. I dont care about low end. MY big turbo car has lag up the ass and this torino will always make more low end tq then my turbo car. More displacement. I would like a full package instead of piecing is together to get the specs right. What gear should I run in the rear ? Looking for a highway car to pull like a train at 35-45 mph til up top. Right now its a 351c with edelbrock 600cfm carb and edelbrock performer intake with manifolds to true dual 2.5" no cat exhaust. I heard from all forums from google searching for hours these edelbrock parts are the most toned down aftermarket parts. Searching suggest 650 carb with a edelbrock air gap or weiand x celerator manifold. |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Having a 4spd sure opens up the cam selection a bit.
-Closed chambered heads would be an improvement. If you are considering a head swap but aren't looking for aftermarket aluminum heads either the 2V Austrialian heads, or 70-71 4V heads (US) are worth looking at.
-Even if you are going to go with the heads you have, ditch the valve train. The factory 2V rockers are weak and the factory valves are two piece units that like to feed themselves to the pistons.
-An outfit named Sanderson Headers makes some "shorty" headers that may work but can be a bit salty.
-If you don't have it, electronic ignition. Even a stock Duraspark setup (429-460 distributor fits) is an improvement.
-I'm voting for a 3.50 gear set. I liked them better than the 4.11's I had in the 72 for a bit. Damn quick but without an overdrive they are just horrible on the highway.
Edited by lynchster - 14-December-2011 at 3:28PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Edited by lynchster - 14-December-2011 at 3:30PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Lynchster thank you. I was just thinking of 3.50 gears actually.
Can I just bolt on 4v heads ? An option that ran thru my head was a 4b head setup. What do you mean a but salty ? Some people said that 70 torino headers should work. I have power steering so that might affect my header choice unless I used a specific expensive header set that I found. |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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salty = expensive. Old expression.
Sure the 4V heads will bolt on. I'd go with the 70-71 heads myself. My 72 CJ has the open chamber heads and I'm considering the swap myself.
Another point is that the 4V heads have their own intake and exhaust manifolds as well (much larger ports). I believe (not sure) you can fit a 2V intake manifold on 4V heads but the port sizes don't match up. Edited by lynchster - 14-December-2011 at 3:48PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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I think you need the manifolds, intake and heads. I was wondering cost per HP with 4v swap as opposed to Aussie heads or edelbrock or afr heads.
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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I would buy aftermarket 4v intake and headers to avoid re using stock stuff with 4v heads.
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Regul8r's link is for 351c heads on a windsor. Don't they change the Way the coolant operates when building a cleavor ? Ill call edelbrock about a package and my needs.
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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That is a consideration.
If going with the 4V heads stick with the 70-71 closed chamber heads. The later open chamber heads (like mine) won't help your compression any and the larger ports may wind up being detrimental depending on the cam and gears.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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If numbers matching block is your goal, send in
your block to be done. I am sure this would also keep costs down as they are not
suppling block.
Tell them you will be using your own tins,
dip-stick, dampener? etc etc etc, to keep costs down.
Very important to tell them that you have stick
shift = cam selection (larger animal = bigger HP)
Option 1 (at the high end) ---- http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351C-536HP-CRATE-ENGINE-w-CHI-ALUMINUM-HEADS-TUFF-DAWG-ENGINES-/160697223883?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item256a4d0acb#ht_3487wt_932
Many options in between
Option 2 (lowest end from the same people and
probably not what you are looking for anyway) ---- http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351C-CRATE-ENGINE-TUFF-DAWG-ENGINES-/160697862260?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item256a56c874#ht_3401wt_932
The full list of engines ---- http://stores.ebay.com/Tuff-Dawg-Engines/_i.html?_nkw=351c&submit=Search&_sid=62220271
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1973 Q code sports roof
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/engines/ford/Twin-Turbo-Daily-Driver.html
Have a look at the video on this one. This gets the ------- from me
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1973 Q code sports roof
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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THAT is BADAZZ!! |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Nice video for sure. I need 4v intake manifold also when doing head swap right ?
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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It pays to match 2v with 2v, and 4v with 4v due to port sizes on heads. As I understand it, it will run but not well if they are interchanged |
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1973 Q code sports roof
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foxhound720
New Member Joined: 05-December-2011 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Yeah most definitely. Thanks.
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torkair
Senior Member Joined: 01-May-2010 Location: Tucson, Az Status: Offline Points: 430 |
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The closed chamber Aussi 2v heads should give you taht extra bit of power you're looking for, add in some nice new stainless valves, new springs, a set of 1.73 roller rockers, and adjustable stud mount conversion and you should only be into the heads for around $1k. From there there are plenty of cams to choose from! A new electronic ignition will really help with things too, I am using an all mechanical Mallory unilite distributor and Hyfire solid core coil on my 400, it's simple AND effecient :) Next I want to add a CDI box but I can live with what I have for now.
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72 Gran Torino "sport"- in progress
73 Ranchero GT- Q code-460/C6/3.25 open rear |
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Guests
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try finding a set of Aussie 2V heads,I don't think it's that simple but who knows I never looked for any when doing my 74 351 2v Cleveland as the valve size are 2.05 and that is bigger then the Cheby 350 2.02 heads that all the Chebby guys wanted for thier 350's with 1.94's,they swapped to the 2.02's.
I did a Performer intake for the 2V with a 600 cfm Carter AFB before Edeljunk bought them out,believe it or not the Carter version is better then the Edelbrock.
I put in a Erson 290 duration cam but don't know the lift as back in the 80's they went by duration and the cam card had all your cam specs but that is long gone,still have the 351C sitting in the garage,it was slated for the 73 but as I parted the POS rust bucket it don't have a home as the 72 has a 69 429 and that has way more hp then a 351C 2V
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/engines/auction-431151146.htm
Can pick em up for you, but shipping will be hideously expensive. So pick up cost nil, packaging nil. shipping your responsibly. Can hold for as long as you like so long as you pay for heads. |
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1973 Q code sports roof
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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Just had a closer look at the photos, and he says they have been "acid dipped" === doesn't look like it. Happy to view on your behalf and get more photos direct to your email.
Auction runs for another hour but I am sure he will not sell. |
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1973 Q code sports roof
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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Currency converter -- http://coinmill.com/NZD_USD.html
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1973 Q code sports roof
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Guests
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that's the problem,try finding them here in the states is the harder part and shipping from NZ or Aussieland is very pricey,you would know kenneth from shipping your engine from the states to NZ and also i'm sure buying parts for the rebuild
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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Rodger that, and %100 Agreed on that
Jeff.
I personally think he's better off getting a set of
local Ali heads, or a head package. weight difference/savings alone would be
worth some ponies up his sleave.
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1973 Q code sports roof
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yup
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