Starsky & Hutch PS 122 for sale |
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Starsky74Torino
Member Joined: 24-January-2012 Location: Johnson City TN Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Posted: 25-April-2012 at 9:38AM |
Here you go folks, rare opertunity to aquire one of the orig factory PS 122's.
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"Truth is treason in this Empire of lies"....Ron Paul 4/10/2012
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the bidding will end up going too high for what it would be worth to me
it's already at $2000 and that is all I would give for it the way it is. I bought my 72 GTS with a running 429 for $1800 so why would I buy it for that price,I would build a clone first, the PS122's aren't worth that much when finished anyway and cheaper to buy a decent 74-76 Gran Torino and build a S&H replica
Edited by 72 GTS 429 - 25-April-2012 at 3:39PM |
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1zebra3
Senior Member Joined: 21-December-2011 Location: NEBR Status: Offline Points: 353 |
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I agree its getting too high but it's suppose to be an original L.E. With the amount it would take to get it back into shape,I think it will take a real S&H fanatic to get this car. I think it will take over 5,000 to get it.
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1zebra3 76 S&H Torino 70 mustang MACH 1 73 MACH 1 79 F-350 (SOLD)DAMN 89 STANG LX COUPE 04 F-150 |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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For $5,000 I could easily convert my '76 to a nice L.E. clone - much nicer starting point. Believe me, I have really thought about it.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Scott
Senior Member Joined: 31-January-2012 Location: Versailles,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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Replicas will never be worth the LE prices no matter what.Anyone can build a replica but there will never be anymore originals built.That is like saying a fastback Mustang is as good as a Mach 1 not!!!!!!
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Born_Again_Torinos
Member Joined: 20-March-2012 Location: Spokane WA Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Hey Guys,
I have built 29 Starsky & Hutch Gran Torinos. Two of which were L.E.s. I have to say, my replicas go for the same price as my L.E.s. They all sell very well. The reason I like the stock gran torinos more than L.E.s is most L.E.s seem to be rode hard and put away wet because they have that iconic paint job on them and guys think they are hot rods. I really love the stock gran torinos because so many are in great shape and original. I like them all, they are all collectable.
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Kit Sullivan
Member Joined: 23-October-2008 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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That is true, but I also have a different way of looking at that:
A true 76' LE will always have a higher value over a non-LE tribute car, but only to those who are concerned about it's monetary value.
I have a 76' LE, bought it in 79' with 50K on it for $1800. Still has it's original paint, but it's looking like a 35+ year old car does, even taken care of.
The car is a dog: 460 boat-anchor engine. No guts, drinks the gas. It handles great...as long as you don't want to turn or stop!
Don't get me wrong, I love the car, but it was not a very "complete" effort on Ford's part. This was just a last-ditch effort to grab a few extra Torino sales before that nameplate went out of production.
At the very least tbey could have made these few additional changes, and I think it would have made the whole package infinitelt better and much more desirable:
To keep whatever value this original car has, I have resisted all attempts to "improve it" over the years. However, I always wanted to make it into the car it pretends to be, so...
I am now in the midst of building a "S&H" Torino out of a 75 Gran Torino "Sport" and a 74 Gran Torino (base). The body of the 75 was too far gone, but all the trim and stuff is perfect. The 74 is just a stripped no-option hardtop, although I found out just recently it has the nodular "big" 9"rear end. (maybe had a towing pkg?). That body is near 100% rust free, but the rest is shot.
So, combining the two gives a great car.
I have rebulit the entire suspension with PST poly-graphite, had HUGE custom-made sway bars made for it. Had custom-made springs front and rear (Eaton-Detroit Springs). All of this was installed on the 75 before I began the tear-down and it handled great! I couldn't belive the difference. All of those components have since been put on the new body.
Had a nice 450-horse 460 built for it, likewise a stout C-6. The 9-incher is being bulit into a 3.55 track-lock.
I think I will have a total of about $15,000 in this car when done
To restore the 76 LE to the same like-new (but stock) condition would cost about $10,000.
And then, what would each be "worth"?
I think all other things being equal, most would value the bulit-up clone over the original.
Of course, my wife always tells me "who cares what it is worth..you're never going to sell them anyway!" (I got a lot of cars)
I am the origianl owner of a 71 429 Mach 1. I have resisted "improving " that car too. It is restored and near all-original.
I have seen these sell for over $100,000. I am confident I could get $50,000 for mine pretty easily.
However, anyone could go and buy a decent 71-72 Mustang fastback "donor" car and easily recreate a visually perfect clone of a 71 429 Mach 1 for far less than $50,000, and with a much better and improved drivetrain.
Only the numbers would'nt match, but that doesn't make a bit of difference how you can enjoy the car.
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"I'm too old to grow up now!"
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Kit, I agree completely with what you wrote. I spent years resisting the urge to modify a classic because of pricing, but finally decided to bite the bullet and stray away from originality on a '68 Mustang convertible. Started out as an early 289/automatic car with the usual options. I installed a late model 5.0 EFI roller engine/AOD/4 wheel disc setup. Installed poly bushings, aftermarket suspension, subtle additions to the exterior and interior and a set of 17 inch wheels. The result? A COMPLETELY different car that could be tossed into a corner, accelerated like it was on fire, vastly better driveability and mileage, and way more enjoyable to drive...and it was still a '68 Stang. When the time came to move on to another project, I asked for (and received) more than it would have brought stock and honestly, more than it was worth. The reasoning was logical - the hard work was already done, it drove like a modern muscle car, and still appeared like a classic. All the positives with none of the negatives, and the blueprint for my present and future projects.
I won't try to deceive anyone by building a clone and promoting it as an original - that is wrong. However, on a Torino or similar type vehicle, the improved appearance and enjoyment combined with an original look should not affect the value in a negative way (if done well). Just my personal experiences... |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Srandaz2
Member Joined: 11-July-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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I guess I have mixed emotions on the subject - I been fortunate in my car purchases - I owned an original PS122 and to be honest I think its what and how you invest into a clone. I currently own a 1975 GTS and there is only minor - monor differences on the two models - the only thing my 75 Base model is missing is the PS122 ID - beyond that there is absolutely no way you can tell the two apart.
But as I aforementioned I took no short cuts and creating a clown - Not too mention I am the second original owner of my GTS - with a 11K on the original balanced and blue printed motor and 62K on the original body and sheet metal - I highley doubt I can find a PS122 in this type of shape and miles.
Owning an original is nice but the long and short of it is - all I am paying extra for is a PS122 Name Plate...
Good Stuff - Guys....
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Steve
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Srandaz2
Member Joined: 11-July-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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Spell Check really Sucks sometimes... LMAO
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Steve
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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I agree. Torinos are a unique breed in that the '72-'76 models are never going to bring huge money, hence the originality does not come into play as much.
I have an "S" code '68 Cougar XR7/GT. Car is a 390/4 speed car that, when restored back original, might (just might) bring $15K. But, I am installing a Cobra-donated supercharged 4.6 with a 6 speed, revamping everything underneath with R&P steering, etc, late model interior, 17 or 18 inch wheels and a host of body mods (kept subdued and tasteful). The result will be a car that is way more fun to drive and will bring better money - for about the same money invested as a mild restoration (great luck and buying smart). More folks want to own a Charcoal Mist Cougar with a black interior and those modern go-fast goodies, than a Gold car with a black top and parchment interior as it came (stiff-shifting Toploader, cranky 4Bbl, ill-handling stock suspension aside). To top it off, it will whip the stock drivetrain on the 390's best day. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Kit Sullivan
Member Joined: 23-October-2008 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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I guess what I'm saying is that even though I have never modded my 76 LE because I want to keep it original, I don't think modding an origainal 76 LE will hurt its value amongst serious collectors because the car as delivered from Ford was pretty lame anyway...
Compared to collectors of other valuable muscle-era cars, the Starsky & Hutch LE is not viewed with a lot of respect.
Simply because it is far too obvious that Ford was looking for a cheap way to cash in on a vat of red paint, and to make a few bucks of an old nag already on her way to the glue factory.
There was clearly no love within Ford for the Torino after 73, and TV's "Starsky" pulled the image of the Torino as a stodgy old man's car out of the crapper for one last accidental shot of glory.
That TV show was all smoke and mirrors, but we all fell for it!
Who among us at the time didn't think the end-of-the-run Torino was a great car back then, mostly because of S&H?
It worked so good on me that even though my daily driver at the time was a 71 429 CobraJet Mach 1, I still thought the Torino was a cool muscle car, and I went and found a nice used one in '79!
Of course, after the coolnes of tooling around in a S&H car wore off, I had to admit it wasn't much of a muscle car, especially compared to my Mustang (which I still own by the way...42 years now!)
I learned a few necessary habits driving that 76 LE backl then:
Remember, that is for a totally bone-stock 76 LE, wheezing 460, single exhaust pig that it was (and still is!) That is why I am so excited about the "clone" I am building. Finally, a "Starsky & Hutch" car that will live up to it's looks in all respects! It will be fast! It will handle! It will stop! (maybe) and I will not feel stupid riding around in a car that is "all show and no go".Of course, my wife says I may not feel stupid, but I will certainly look stupid riding around in a S&H car! (she doesn't feel the love for S&H like we do)
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"I'm too old to grow up now!"
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Kit,
Very true words that sum it all up. Every girl I've dated (including my ex-wife) hated my '76 (except C). Thought it was the worst looking car ever. In reality, '74-76's are not an attractive car in stock garb. Large bumpers (afterthought), poor brakes, heavy, anemic performance, 14 inch wheels, and weak suspensions are not a receipe for a muscle car. Yes, S&H did revive interest and fool a lot of folks into buying them, but Ford did give up after '73. However, like an unwanted, ugly dog, I have grown to find beauty in these cars. Thank goodness you kept that Mach 1. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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PS122
Member Joined: 23-March-2011 Location: Eaton, OH Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I'm enjoying this thread. I'm fortunate enough to have one of the original LE cars. (Purchased new by a friend of my dad and in very original condition). I've grappled with the originality question but since this is not a car that I'll sell anytime soon (too much sentimental value), I've decided to make changes that please me. All of these modifications will be reversible and I'll certainly retain all of the original parts but I too, feel that the LE package didn't go far enough. I guess I favor what you would call period-correct or 'day two' mods, so most of the visible underhood changes will be parts that were available in the mid to late-70s. For instance an Edelbrock intake, Holley 600 cfm carb, Hooker headers and the like have already been procured and await installation. I'll also be adding a dual exhaust and some brake and suspension upgrades. In any event, I hope the car that was the subject of this post found a good home and perhaps the new owner will join us on this board.
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Joe
'76 S&H Gran Torino http://starskytorino.com/joes/joes.html |
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Kit Sullivan
Member Joined: 23-October-2008 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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If you are trying to stay true to what Ford produced, then you are forever handcuffed to the stock not-quite-there-as-delivered LE. However, since Ford's LE was in fact somewhat of a "clone" of, and inspired by the fictional car on TV, then I guess you can say that a "correct" S&H car will definitely have some aftermarket go-faster parts. The car as portrayed on TV was not stock, as per Starsky's " chrome rocker covers, chrome valve covers, the 4/5s out back...it's a very special car". Whoever wrote that dialog knows about as much about cars as I do about submarines...which is nothing!
And since it was never directly specified exactly what the (fictional) modifications that Starsky supposedly made to the car, then we just have to infer what it was as best we can. It must have been some good mods though...how else could he have kept up with and outrun all those wheezing 6-cylinder Mavericks, anemic Pintos, barge-like limosuines and all those other gas-pig Fords that the Bay City bad guys limed to drive. All in good fun of course. I love this car. |
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"I'm too old to grow up now!"
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Torinos. Build them to enjoy them, because if a person buys a '74-'76 just to attempt to make a quick buck:
A) That person is in the wrong business B) That person does not understand the whole "Torino Thing" C) That person had better be a quick study, LOL |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Kit Sullivan
Member Joined: 23-October-2008 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Yep, a whole little cottage industry of "Zebra 3"- type custom-built Torinos came into existence after the 2004 S&H movie revived interest in the "Striped Tomato".
I think most of them are gone now, and I don't forsee the S&H Torinos maintaining the high value they had for a few years there. Thats OK with me though, as I don't intend to sell the car anyway. |
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"I'm too old to grow up now!"
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Agreed! Not a quick buck flip car. Only way for a quick buck is pick them up almost free and invest some time, elbow grease, parts store update parts and TLC to flip them to the local dude who just wants something that looks badass! We know he'll get his ass whooped at every light by most newer imports though! lol Also on the S&H stuff... Unless it is a TRUE PS122 then have fun and do what you want! There were so many variations used on the TV Show and alot of DEALER MADE tribute cars that it is not going to matter what car, engine, tranny, interior, or suspension you have or even what upgrades you use. IMHO, the S&H cars are more about the Striped Tomato paint, Slot mags putting it on any 74-76 Torino. Have FUN with it and enjoy it. A nicely done tribute is a NICE TORINO any way you look at it. We've even seen COOL S&H cars that were different colors!
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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I read the backup car number 3 ( 76 season ) was a 351 they blew up and dropped a 429 in, So in a way a H code converted to a 429 does follow the actual series car. Just my thought...
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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Kit Sullivan
Member Joined: 23-October-2008 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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That "back up car" story is unsubstantiated. There is no evidence that there was a third 76 car used on the show.
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"I'm too old to grow up now!"
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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OK 2 backups the second backup got the 429.
"They were powered by 460 Lima V8s (VIN code "A"), and Spelling-Goldberg kept these Torinos until production ceased. While these were the biggest, most powerful engines available from Ford at the time, they were still underpowered at 202 net horsepower. A third car, owned by 20th Century Fox and 351 Windsor powered, was used as the first backup to the Ford lease cars." "Manufactured at the Chicago plant, one of these code "PS 122" units was leased by Spelling-Goldberg from the middle of season two until the series' end as a second backup for the main cars and was known simply as "Unit 129". It was originally equipped with a 351 Modified (also VIN code "H") ; however, during filming, one of the stuntmen damaged the engine beyond repair, and it was replaced overnight with a 429 Lima V8." Info from . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starsky_and_Hutch |
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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Kit Sullivan
Member Joined: 23-October-2008 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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There is no actual documentation to verify that there were "backup cars".
Careful scrutiny of every episode from the 2nd through 4th seasons reveals that every appearance of the Torino is by one of the two main cars. Dents, scratches, missing trim, interior trim. and paint anomolies make it easy to identify which car is being used. There are only three instances where the car is "played" by a car that is not one of the 2 "real" cars: 1) in "Starsky & Hutch Are Guilty" there is a single, breif shot of thed car driving from screen right to left that is clerly of one of the Ford-produced LEs. The stripe is pointed in back, the car sits low on its suspension on smaller tires, and is even wearing Keystone Klassic mags...not even close to the "correct" aluminum slots. 2) in "Partners", the Torino is in a bad accident. The car used for the crash scene is clealy a 1974 or 1975 "Sport", identifiable by the grill badge and lower fender trim. 5) a second-season 2-part episode ( can't remember the title) has the Torino being blown up and burned out while attempting to jump start another car. The car that blows up is too obviously not even a Torino, but appears to be a mid-sixties Ford ( or maybe a Chevy) with a quickie "Starsky"- style paint job on it. Clearly the producers did not want to destroy the main vehicles for those one- time destructive scenes, and since they didn't even actually own the cars, they could not have anyway. Those instances are not what I consider "back-up" cars, more like sacrificial stand-ins. I have no clue about the LE in the first instance. The history of the 2 76 TV cars is easily traceable from when they were both built, all the way to who owns each of them today. There is no other evidence of proof of any other "back up" cars. There have been several people over the years that claim to have a car used in the show, but they have all bedn shown to be false for the most part. Edited by Kit Sullivan - 23-November-2012 at 12:40AM |
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"I'm too old to grow up now!"
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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Just to add fuel to the fire.
One could easily modify a L.E. car. Just do the following 1. Keep any 'removed parts'... Swapping that 351w/C4 for a 460/C6? Fine, keep the 351w in the garage. 2. Refrain, as much as possible, from drilling holes where they don't need to be. Adding a transmission cooler? Use OEM bolt holes, or fab some brackets to meet them... that kind of thing. 3. If drilling holes, have a replacement part. So you want to add some gauges to your console? Fine.. do it to an extra console top plate. Thinking along these lines would allow a car to be transformed back to 100% original, and in all honesty, as much as we like to think we are all reinventing the wheel when it comes to building and modifying these cars, it would probably cover any modifications that 90% of us would perform. You occasionally see a car go off on Barrett Jackson where they say "The owner has the original engine on a stand," so this isn't THAT unusual. Out of three cars. 1. Stock L.E. 2. L.E. "modded clone" 3. Modded L.E. with trailer full of stock parts. Three would probably be worth more than two.... But then again, if you were selling, you could probably sell the mods, put the car back to stock, and make even more cash. Food for thought on this day after Thanksgiving. |
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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I have often tinkered with converting my '76 to a S&H clone. Fill the operas and roof trim areas and have a nice blank canvas to work with.
However: 1) As much as I love those cars (and I do), building a clone would only be 85% rewarding for me, personally. I created a clone that would be convincing, but yet everyone that knows that car would know what I did. Even though I would not sell it. Sicilian/Catholic guilt. Damn. 2) Restoring it back in it's present Dark Red with the 1/2 white top would only satisfy me about 20% - and that is purely from a nostalgic point. 3) Modifying it with smaller, cut bumpers, changing colors, dropping it down, serious body mods MIGHT satisfy 90%, but what if I was horrified at what I had created? No going back easily on that. 4) Gutting and building a NASCAR clone. Would love driving it, attention getter, but how dumb would I look driving it to a nice resturant, going to work in it regularly, shopping at WalMart? Not fooling anyone, and I would be in it alone, always. Not to mention being nearly impossible to return back to stock and cutting up a factory car that I have owned since 1980. 5) Procrastinate even more and let it continue sitting in the garage until the day I die? Nope, and ZERO satisfaction. Eventually, anyone with a non-LE '74-'76 faces these thoughts: What to do with it. My main beef and reason for trying to take a non-stock route are those absurd bumpers and opera windows. So he continues to sit in darkness beside a roll of berber carpet and a '68 Cougar... |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Limited Torino
New Member Joined: 09-December-2012 Location: Galesburg IL Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Hi guys, nice read.
I was 17 years old when the T.V. show Starsky and Hutch started in the Fall of 1975. I was driving a 1963 Chevy Biscayne - 6cyl. 3speed on the tree, living in the project housing. I thought everything Starsky was it. I finally got my first Torino in 1980 a 1974 G.T.S. 2B red & Black interior for $150.00 rusty, turned it into a Clone. I had no idea what a L.E. was at the time. I am driving my 5th. Starsky car an L.E. at this time in 2012. I have had 60 some cars trucks & motorcycles since 1974. The money I must of put into all them vehicles ? But I have to say the cars I have enjoyed the most is the DOGGY stock S & H Gran Torino's. They just get attention I to this day just can't believe. No regrets. I have had a HAPPY life with them. I say Do EM the way you want, don't worry about the money - Clone or L.E. and just enjoy. Worth every penny
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Pat
2009 Challenger SE 1998 Sebring Conv. 1976 Factory S&H 1973 Galaxie Hutchcar 1970 Cougar reg.-restored 1970 XR7-unrestored 1969 Cougar reg. -unrestored |
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