Project TV 2M8O |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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I liked the movie, I like Clint, but the singing makes me think of Selma and
Edited by Big Bird - 28-April-2017 at 11:43AM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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Fairly productive day Saturday, necessary wiring harnesses hung to allow engine to be started, core support, fan & belts removed, ignition module plugged in and started plugging all open vacuum ports before getting the call from Debbie that she had fallen and possibly broken her wrist. I quickly covered things up and shut down the lights before getting any pics of the progress.As my buddy Jim said, it'll all be there waiting on me next weekend!
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
We had a surprise visit from my daughter and her husband (on leave from the USN stationed in Virginia Beach) this weekend, so there was nothing done on the Tomato. She did want to go see how it was moving along, so I took along the camera to document last weekends progress..... Edited by TV 2M8O - 07-May-2017 at 4:09AM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE** Some progress the last couple weekends. Last Saturday I repaired the ignition key reminder switch... and installed the firewall pad retainers for the driver side pad before moving on to a few major items. Installed the core support and the wheel houses, then clipped the wiring harnesses into position, then hung the starter solenoid and the ignition module... battery cables and engine ground installed, (battery core used for placement)... transmission lines jumpered together... and an old distributor converted to oil pump primer... Next weekend I'll tighten up the motor mounts, pull the distributor, wires and plugs, prime the oil pump while turning the crank by hand, reinstall the distributor, wires and plugs, hook up a temporary fuel source, snag the battery outta the Fairlane and LIGHT THIS MUTHA OFF (fingers crossed)!! Not much longer and I'll be playing the BIG BLOCK BOOGIE!! Edited by TV 2M8O - 21-May-2017 at 4:23AM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
With his assurance, we rolled to engine over to the TDC mark on the cranks and reinstalled the distributor, wires and plugs. After connecting the battery, a fuel source and the remote starter trigger, the 460 rolled over for the first time in several years but wouldn't light off.... With no fire getting to the plugs, we located all the harness grounds inside the cabin and jumpered them together and to ground and I also jumpered the engine to firewall lead directly to the negative post of the battery and we tried again.... SUCCESS. We shut her off, attached the timing light to get her timed and lit her off again...... There was a very noticeable chirp coming from the engine, so we crawled under the car and removed the bellhousing inspection plate and rolled the motor over by hand to see if we could see any signs of the torque converter studs dragging on anything. Nothing visible, so we removed the started and spun her over again... again no signs of what was causing the noise. With the timing set, we fired her up one last time before calling it a day..... https://www.youtube.com/embed/gb3qHVlpw5I?feature=player_embedded" Hopefully we'll get some good pointers this week on what the source of the noise may be so I can address the issue and keep moving forward. Edited by TV 2M8O - 29-May-2017 at 4:20AM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Dan the ranchero man
Senior Member Joined: 24-July-2011 Location: Mchenry,IL Status: Offline Points: 1173 |
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Could by chance one of the bolts used for the shift linkage cable bracket be too long and scrapping the flywheel? Or starter Bendix drive not fully disengaging? Just thoughts.
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
No signs of rubbing/interference on the torque converter... nor either side of the flywheel... or the separator plate. There was also no visible warping or cracks on the flywheel and the separator plate was flat as well. Digging back thru pics of the engine when I first got it, I discovered it originally had a "spoked center" flywheel.... rather than the solid one pictured above that came off a later model Lincoln 460. I have another "spoked center" flywheel on the original 460 my Torino came with if that could be the possible source for the noise? Different balancing on the Lincoln 460 versus the Ford 460?? Need to break out the detective kit...... Edited by TV 2M8O - 04-June-2017 at 6:45AM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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check the offset of the different flex's, they're not necessarily all the same either
lay them flat on a surface & compare the ring gear position and check how the starter fits into the big hole in the block plate I'm no 385 series expert but i think there are internal & external balanced 460's so i guess you gotta figure that out. did the spacer behind the harmonic balancer have a weight on it or is it just a round spacer?
Edited by Rockatansky - 04-June-2017 at 7:00AM |
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72 GT Ute
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Were all the flex plate to crank and flexplate to Torque converter bolts tight and equally torqued?
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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joe, what's that mark in the 2 o'clock position from the center of the crank hole?
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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John,
My guess is that it was resting against the block rib around the crank.... I'll have a closer look on Saturday.
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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it's probably nothing that matters but just saw that stand out in the pics
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Dan the ranchero man
Senior Member Joined: 24-July-2011 Location: Mchenry,IL Status: Offline Points: 1173 |
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The 460 was internally balanced all the up to 1982-83. So I think he is safe there since both engines where before that time.
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Power Surge
Senior Member Joined: 06-March-2016 Location: Palm Coast, FL Status: Offline Points: 542 |
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I have heard this noise before..... are you SURE that the converter is seated all the way in the trans? When installing, it should drop two times into the front pump. First "drop" is when it slips onto the input shaft. Second "drop" is when it engages the flats of the front pump gear. I have seen this same chirp when a converter was not engaged in the front pump gear and is just jammed up against it.
Just food for thought.
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Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ 75 Cougar XR7 73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite |
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Power Surge
Senior Member Joined: 06-March-2016 Location: Palm Coast, FL Status: Offline Points: 542 |
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Also, if you want to try to isolate if it's an internal engine noise, you can do this...
With the trans unbolted, bolt the mid plate to the block with shorter bolts. Install the flywheel. Install the starter in the midplate, and bolt it to the midplate. That will let you start the motor up without the trans. If the noise is gone.... it's not the motor.
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Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ 75 Cougar XR7 73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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Randy, Yep.... everything torqued to spec.
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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I WAS WONDERING THE SAME THING! The big block plates are about the same thickness but it is steel....
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Power Surge
Senior Member Joined: 06-March-2016 Location: Palm Coast, FL Status: Offline Points: 542 |
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I've done it with steel midplates. Was enough support to fire the motor.
Maybe if you have a spare midplate, you can stack two together to make it a little beefier for that starter.
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Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ 75 Cougar XR7 73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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A second separator plate will be here for test firing again this weekend... THANKS CARL!!!!! Wish me luck that there's no squeal running the engine only!
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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starsky460
Senior Member Joined: 01-April-2010 Location: Ply Meeting PA Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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No problem Joe. Ya' know we are just like car seats.....we go way back
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Carl
1976 Gran Torino Starsky & Hutch Limited Edition FACTORY 460 c.u. engine 3:55 gears |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
PART 1 Several frustrating weeks... After braking apart the engine and transmission, I had to wait for a buddy (Starsky460) to send me a second motor plate so I could double them up for support of the starter without the transmission mated to the engine. While I waited on it to arrive, I blasted... detailed... and mounted the fresh air intake to the core support... mounted the dual horns... and the lower and upper rubber radiator supports (not sure yet if I like the bright fasteners??)... (go to PART 2) Edited by TV 2M8O - 28-June-2017 at 11:07PM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
PART 2 When the motor plate arrived, my buddy Jim and I got the double plates, flywheel and starter mounted up only to discover we had VERY LITTLE clearance between the starter snout and the flywheel, so we pulled it back off and I filed away some material to gain a bit more daylight between the parts... With the starter remounted, we gave it a bump to see how much deflection we were getting during engagement. Wasn't too bad, so we tried several different locations until we ...found the best location to brace the motor plate to minimize the flexing, then we gave her a good spin and noticed the starter gear wasn't fully retracting upon release. We played around with relocating the bracing without too much success, so we thought we'd try and light her off to see if the gear would retract under load. We spent a long time trying to get her to start without success.... we weren't getting any fuel! Frigged around and finally determined the new fuel pump might have failed, so we reinstalled the old one to see if that would work, but evidently the diaphragm was shot in that one as well. We called several local parts stores, but none had anything in stock..... guess there's not much demand anymore for a three port, 460 Ford mechanical fuel pump! LOL We pulled off the high torque mini starter to see how it operated compared to the original and the first noticeable difference was the WEIGHT.... the mini starter weighed nothing compared to the factory starter! We then applied voltage to the mini and noticed that the bendix gear had a slight dribble to it upon extension, but seemed to snap back as soon as voltage was removed. https://youtu.be/MVlX1vpzplI The original starter seemed to be operating in slow motion compared to it's miniature cousin, so I'm guessing there is a misalignment between the starter centerline and the crank centerline causing the binding of the gear and flywheel. I ordered a new fuel pump from RockAuto and the following weekend, we replaced the fuel pump, fed her some REAL gas and then lit off the engine without the tranny and the temporary shims in place and the noise was gone! So we proceeded to reassemble everything. Lit her off again once reassembled and be damned if the chirp wasn't back!!! 😡 Jim suggested we put the temporary shims back in and see what happens, so we pulled the starter, added the two temporary shims and tried her again.... IT LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After several frustrating weeks, we have finally resolved the issue.... seems the snout of the aftermarket, mini high torque starter was a bit too deep and the flywheel was ever so slightly rubbing the starter gear causing the chirp. TA DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! Edited by TV 2M8O - 28-June-2017 at 11:07PM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
PART 3 Before calling it a day, I temporarily installed the AC dryer to confirm it will clear the fresh air intake when mounted below the battery since a few members questioned whether I had it installed correctly... everything seems it should be OK (perhaps a slight tweak here or there!). I'll order the starter shim from RockAuto and install it when it arrives and that should put all engine issues aside... now to get back on track and get her all prepared for going back to Far From Factory for final bodywork and paint! Edited by TV 2M8O - 28-June-2017 at 2:18PM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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starsky460
Senior Member Joined: 01-April-2010 Location: Ply Meeting PA Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Joe,
did you blast the air tube with black beauty, or something else? As usual, the project looks great
Edited by starsky460 - 28-June-2017 at 3:06PM |
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Carl
1976 Gran Torino Starsky & Hutch Limited Edition FACTORY 460 c.u. engine 3:55 gears |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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Carl,
Yeah, the media in our blast cabinet is ready for changing because it's now very fine and has lost most of it's aggressiveness on the heavy paint and rust, but it was ideal for knocking off the dirt and crud from the air tube. Blew it off, wiped it down with lacquer thinner then hit it with a misting coat of Eastwood Satin Black chassis paint. Think it turned out pretty nice! Thanks buddy
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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looks great joe! glad you got rid of those crickets
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE** Some progress this weekend... my parts arrived last week... so I was able to get the starter remounted and the blanket back in place... the carb to PCV line and the distribution block installed. Refired the engine to insure the chirp had not returned and all was good! I also got the rearend filled with the gear oil and trac-loc additive as well as the vent line installed. I started to install the master cylinder to proportioning valve hard lines only to discover Inline Tube Co had send me a line with the incorrect prop valve fitting, so that hamstrung that install until I can get the correct line. All in all a pretty good weekend! Edited by TV 2M8O - 09-July-2017 at 7:07AM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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gettin' there buddy!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2045 |
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**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE** Well after sitting for a week, I hooked up the battery and gave her a spin...... lit off on the first crank and took gas without hesitation! I hope she continues to light off and be as responsive as she is right now! Another semi productive weekend. We got the corrected fittings onto the master cylinder to proportioning valve hard lines and got them installed... the vacuum canister installed onto the driver side wheelhouse... and got the parking brake cables partially installed. Need to get some hardware and brackets plated... I have everything in place as shown in the Shop Manual, but laying there looking at it, it doesn't look like it would work smoothly... but everyone who has looked at it says it's correct, so I'll get her buttoned up once I get the plated bits back. Next weekend I'll get back to finishing up blasting the hood and get started on the deck lid and driver side front fender so they'll be all ready for the guys at Far From Factory once it's back in their hands. Edited by TV 2M8O - 14-July-2019 at 5:35AM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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