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Project TV 2M8O

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2017 at 10:32AM
I liked the movie, I like Clint, but the singing makes me think of Selma and Thelma Patty, or whatever Marge Simpson's sisters are called.

Edited by Big Bird - 28-April-2017 at 11:43AM
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2017 at 9:39AM
Fairly productive day Saturday, necessary wiring harnesses hung to allow engine to be started, core support, fan & belts removed, ignition module plugged in and started plugging all open vacuum ports before getting the call from Debbie that she had fallen and possibly broken her wrist. I quickly covered things up and shut down the lights before getting any pics of the progress.
As my buddy Jim said, it'll all be there waiting on me next weekend!

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JOE
1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2017 at 4:06AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**

We had a surprise visit from my daughter and her husband (on leave from the USN stationed in Virginia Beach) this weekend, so there was nothing done on the Tomato. She did want to go see how it was moving along, so I took along the camera to document last weekends progress.....



Edited by TV 2M8O - 07-May-2017 at 4:09AM

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2017 at 4:08AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
 
Some progress the last couple weekends.

Last Saturday I repaired the ignition key reminder switch...
 

and installed the firewall pad retainers for the driver side pad before moving on to a few major items. Installed the core support and the wheel houses, then clipped the wiring harnesses into position, then hung the starter solenoid and the ignition module...
 
 
 
 
 
 
This Saturday, I got pan bolts and drain plug tightened, transmission support and crossmember tightened up, fluids added...
 


battery cables and engine ground installed, (battery core used for placement)...
 
 


transmission lines jumpered together...
 


and an old distributor converted to oil pump primer...
 


Next weekend I'll tighten up the motor mounts, pull the distributor, wires and plugs, prime the oil pump while turning the crank by hand, reinstall the distributor, wires and plugs, hook up a temporary fuel source, snag the battery outta the Fairlane and LIGHT THIS MUTHA OFF (fingers crossed)!!

Not much longer and I'll be playing the BIG BLOCK BOOGIE!!

Edited by TV 2M8O - 21-May-2017 at 4:23AM

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2017 at 4:08AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
   
SUCCESS... well sorta. With the help of my brutha Jim Conley, we got the 460 brought to life on Saturday. After removing the distributor, wires and plugs, we primed the engine oil by spinning the the oil pump and turning the motor over by hand during which time we heard a squeek/squawk noise coming from the back of the engine. As we turned the crank, we were able to determine the sound was coming from the bell housing. I made a quick call to the guy who built the transmission for me and after a brief question and answer session, he too was at a loss for the cause and told me to go ahead and fire it up.

With his assurance, we rolled to engine over to the TDC mark on the cranks and reinstalled the distributor, wires and plugs. After connecting the battery, a fuel source and the remote starter trigger, the 460 rolled over for the first time in several years but wouldn't light off....


https://www.youtube.com/embed/aVf58P-lOe4?feature=player_embedded"
 
With no fire getting to the plugs, we located all the harness grounds inside the cabin and jumpered them together and to ground and I also jumpered the engine to firewall lead directly to the negative post of the battery and we tried again.... SUCCESS. We shut her off, attached the timing light to get her timed and lit her off again......

There was a very noticeable chirp coming from the engine, so we crawled under the car and removed the bellhousing inspection plate and rolled the motor over by hand to see if we could see any signs of the torque converter studs dragging on anything. Nothing visible, so we removed the started and spun her over again... again no signs of what was causing the noise.

With the timing set, we fired her up one last time before calling it a day.....

https://www.youtube.com/embed/gb3qHVlpw5I?feature=player_embedded"

Hopefully we'll get some good pointers this week on what the source of the noise may be so I can address the issue and keep moving forward.


Edited by TV 2M8O - 29-May-2017 at 4:20AM

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2017 at 11:13AM
Could by chance one of the bolts used for the shift linkage cable bracket be too long and scrapping the flywheel?  Or starter Bendix drive not fully disengaging? Just thoughts.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 6:40AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
 
Well a day of regression.... broke my heart to break the transmission away from the engine on Saturday, but we need to get to the bottom of the chirping.
 
 


No signs of rubbing/interference on the torque converter...
 


nor either side of the flywheel...
 
 


or the separator plate.
 
 


There was also no visible warping or cracks on the flywheel and the separator plate was flat as well.

Digging back thru pics of the engine when I first got it, I discovered it originally had a "spoked center" flywheel....
 


rather than the solid one pictured above that came off a later model Lincoln 460. I have another "spoked center" flywheel on the original 460 my Torino came with if that could be the possible source for the noise? Different balancing on the Lincoln 460 versus the Ford 460??

Need to break out the detective kit......

Edited by TV 2M8O - 04-June-2017 at 6:45AM

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 6:58AM
check the offset of the different flex's, they're not necessarily all the same either
 
 
lay them flat on a surface & compare the ring gear position
 
and check how the starter fits into the big hole in the block plate
 
I'm no 385 series expert but i think there are internal & external balanced 460's so i guess you gotta figure that out. did the spacer behind the harmonic balancer have a weight on it or is it just a round spacer?


Edited by Rockatansky - 04-June-2017 at 7:00AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 10:06AM
Were all the flex plate to crank and flexplate to Torque converter bolts tight and equally torqued?
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 10:49AM
joe, what's that mark in the 2 o'clock position from the center of the crank hole?
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 1:01PM
John,

My guess is that it was resting against the block rib around the crank.... I'll have a closer look on Saturday.

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 1:45PM
it's probably nothing that matters but just saw that stand out in the pics
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
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90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 2:38PM
The 460 was internally balanced all the up to 1982-83. So I think he is safe there since both engines where before that time.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 5:05PM
I have heard this noise before..... are you SURE that the converter is seated all the way in the trans? When installing, it should drop two times into the front pump. First "drop" is when it slips onto the input shaft. Second "drop" is when it engages the flats of the front pump gear. I have seen this same chirp when a converter was not engaged in the front pump gear and is just jammed up against it. 

Just food for thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 5:08PM
Also, if you want to try to isolate if it's an internal engine noise, you can do this...

With the trans unbolted, bolt the mid plate to the block with shorter bolts. Install the flywheel. Install the starter in the midplate, and bolt it to the midplate. That will let you start the motor up without the trans. If the noise is gone.... it's not the motor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 10:20PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Were all the flex plate to crank and flexplate to Torque converter bolts tight and equally torqued?

Randy,

Yep.... everything torqued to spec.

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 9:03AM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Also, if you want to try to isolate if it's an internal engine noise, you can do this...

With the trans unbolted, bolt the mid plate to the block with shorter bolts. Install the flywheel. Install the starter in the midplate, and bolt it to the midplate. That will let you start the motor up without the trans. If the noise is gone.... it's not the motor. 
Are the 429/460 midplates more durable than small-block plates? Small block ones are aluminum maybe 1/8" thick and wouldn't support the weight of the starter, let alone support it to crank over.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 10:26AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Also, if you want to try to isolate if it's an internal engine noise, you can do this...

With the trans unbolted, bolt the mid plate to the block with shorter bolts. Install the flywheel. Install the starter in the midplate, and bolt it to the midplate. That will let you start the motor up without the trans. If the noise is gone.... it's not the motor. 
Are the 429/460 midplates more durable than small-block plates? Small block ones are aluminum maybe 1/8" thick and wouldn't support the weight of the starter, let alone support it to crank over.

I WAS WONDERING THE SAME THING! The big block plates are about the same thickness but it is steel....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 11:01AM
I've done it with steel midplates. Was enough support to fire the motor. 

Maybe if you have a spare midplate, you can stack two together to make it a little beefier for that starter. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-June-2017 at 5:33AM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

I've done it with steel midplates. Was enough support to fire the motor. 

Maybe if you have a spare midplate, you can stack two together to make it a little beefier for that starter. 

A second separator plate will be here for test firing again this weekend... THANKS CARL!!!!!

Wish me luck that there's no squeal running the engine only!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote starsky460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-June-2017 at 7:00AM
No problem Joe. Ya' know we are just like car seats.....we go way back
Carl
1976 Gran Torino Starsky & Hutch Limited Edition
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-June-2017 at 1:41PM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
 
This is a long update so it will encompass several posts so hang tough!!
 
PART 1
 
Several frustrating weeks...

After braking apart the engine and transmission, I had to wait for a buddy (Starsky460) to send me a second motor plate so I could double them up for support of the starter without the transmission mated to the engine. While I waited on it to arrive, I blasted...
 
 
 

detailed...
 
 
 

and mounted the fresh air intake to the core support...
 
 

mounted the dual horns...
 
 

and the lower and upper rubber radiator supports (not sure yet if I like the bright fasteners??)...
 
 
 
 
 

(go to PART 2)


Edited by TV 2M8O - 28-June-2017 at 11:07PM

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This is a long update so it will encompass several posts so hang tough!!
 
PART 2 
 
When the motor plate arrived, my buddy Jim and I got the double plates, flywheel and starter mounted up only to discover we had VERY LITTLE clearance between the starter snout and the flywheel, so we pulled it back off and I filed away some material to gain a bit more daylight between the parts...
 
 


With the starter remounted, we gave it a bump to see how much deflection we were getting during engagement. Wasn't too bad, so we tried several different locations until we ...found the best location to brace the motor plate to minimize the flexing, then we gave her a good spin and noticed the starter gear wasn't fully retracting upon release. We played around with relocating the bracing without too much success, so we thought we'd try and light her off to see if the gear would retract under load.
We spent a long time trying to get her to start without success.... we weren't getting any fuel! Frigged around and finally determined the new fuel pump might have failed, so we reinstalled the old one to see if that would work, but evidently the diaphragm was shot in that one as well. We called several local parts stores, but none had anything in stock..... guess there's not much demand anymore for a three port, 460 Ford mechanical fuel pump! LOL

We pulled off the high torque mini starter to see how it operated compared to the original and the first noticeable difference was the WEIGHT.... the mini starter weighed nothing compared to the factory starter! We then applied voltage to the mini and noticed that the bendix gear had a slight dribble to it upon extension, but seemed to snap back as soon as voltage was removed.
 
https://youtu.be/MVlX1vpzplI

The original starter seemed to be operating in slow motion compared to it's miniature cousin, so I'm guessing there is a misalignment between the starter centerline and the crank centerline causing the binding of the gear and flywheel.

I ordered a new fuel pump from RockAuto and the following weekend, we replaced the fuel pump, fed her some REAL gas and then lit off the engine without the tranny and the temporary shims in place and the noise was gone! So we proceeded to reassemble everything.

Lit her off again once reassembled and be damned if the chirp wasn't back!!! 😡 Jim suggested we put the temporary shims back in and see what happens, so we pulled the starter, added the two temporary shims and tried her again....

 

IT LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After several frustrating weeks, we have finally resolved the issue.... seems the snout of the aftermarket, mini high torque starter was a bit too deep and the flywheel was ever so slightly rubbing the starter gear causing the chirp. TA DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
 


Edited by TV 2M8O - 28-June-2017 at 11:07PM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-June-2017 at 2:16PM
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This is the last part of this update post!!
 
PART 3 
 
Before calling it a day, I temporarily installed the AC dryer to confirm it will clear the fresh air intake when mounted below the battery since a few members questioned whether I had it installed correctly...
 
 
 
 

everything seems it should be OK (perhaps a slight tweak here or there!).

I'll order the starter shim from RockAuto and install it when it arrives and that should put all engine issues aside... now to get back on track and get her all prepared for going back to Far From Factory for final bodywork and paint!


Edited by TV 2M8O - 28-June-2017 at 2:18PM

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
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Joe,
did you blast the air tube with black beauty, or something else?   As usual, the project looks greatSmileSmile


Edited by starsky460 - 28-June-2017 at 3:06PM
Carl
1976 Gran Torino Starsky & Hutch Limited Edition
FACTORY 460 c.u. engine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-June-2017 at 11:03PM
Carl,

Yeah, the media in our blast cabinet is ready for changing because it's now very fine and has lost most of it's aggressiveness on the heavy paint and rust, but it was ideal for knocking off the dirt and crud from the air tube. Blew it off, wiped it down with lacquer thinner then hit it with a misting coat of Eastwood Satin Black chassis paint. Think it turned out pretty nice!

Thanks buddy

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1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2017 at 3:06AM
looks great joe! glad you got rid of those crickets Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2017 at 7:00AM
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Some progress this weekend... my parts arrived last week...
 


so I was able to get the starter remounted and the blanket back in place...



the carb to PCV line and the distribution block installed.

 


Refired the engine to insure the chirp had not returned and all was good!

I also got the rearend filled with the gear oil and trac-loc additive as well as the vent line installed.
 


I started to install the master cylinder to proportioning valve hard lines only to discover Inline Tube Co had send me a line with the incorrect prop valve fitting, so that hamstrung that install until I can get the correct line.

All in all a pretty good weekend!

Edited by TV 2M8O - 09-July-2017 at 7:07AM

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JOE
1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2017 at 3:16PM
Clap gettin' there buddy!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-July-2017 at 11:36AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
 
Well after sitting for a week, I hooked up the battery and gave her a spin......
 

lit off on the first crank and took gas without hesitation! I hope she continues to light off and be as responsive as she is right now!

Another semi productive weekend. We got the corrected fittings onto the master cylinder to proportioning valve hard lines and got them installed...
 
 
 

the vacuum canister installed onto the driver side wheelhouse...
 
 

and got the parking brake cables partially installed. Need to get some hardware and brackets plated...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I have everything in place as shown in the Shop Manual, but laying there looking at it, it doesn't look like it would work smoothly... but everyone  who has looked at it says it's correct, so I'll get her buttoned up once I get the plated bits back.

Next weekend I'll get back to finishing up blasting the hood and get started on the deck lid and driver side front fender so they'll be all ready for the guys at Far From Factory once it's back in their hands.


Edited by TV 2M8O - 14-July-2019 at 5:35AM

TV 2M8O OUT
JOE
1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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