429/460CJ SHORTIES |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Posted: 24-December-2012 at 3:02PM |
Have a firm looking into replicating the 429CJ exhaust manifolds as shortie headers. How many would be interested? More info to follow as it develops.......
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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I would be, that would be cool to have some option to full length headers.
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Scott Eklund
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whifty
Member Joined: 18-April-2011 Location: C.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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I'd like a set if they were stainless.
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1931 Model A
1937 Tudor Slantback 1966 427 Fairlane 1972 429 Gran Torino Sport 1992 5.0 Mustang 2003 Mustang Mach I 2005 F-150 ASE Certified Master Technician |
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72BlackGTS
Senior Member Joined: 10-April-2007 Location: Millerton, NY Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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I'd be interested too. I've been thinking about that also.
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Ron
1978 LTD II Sport-Green 2003 HD Road King Classic 100th Anniversary |
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foote500
Senior Member Joined: 13-June-2011 Location: Winchester, VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
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Someone educate me-what is the advantage of shorties over long headers?
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Marc
German Shepherd Rescue 1967 Ford Fairlane 500, 390 |
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72BlackGTS
Senior Member Joined: 10-April-2007 Location: Millerton, NY Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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A lot less clearance issues to deal with.
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Ron
1978 LTD II Sport-Green 2003 HD Road King Classic 100th Anniversary |
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foote500
Senior Member Joined: 13-June-2011 Location: Winchester, VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
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Ah, so its not a performance issue.
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Marc
German Shepherd Rescue 1967 Ford Fairlane 500, 390 |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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This Summit Racing video may help.....
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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horsepower just did an episode on different length headers, unfortunately the mule engine they used didn't show hardly jack of a difference, it seems like it was already exhaust challenged by the heads, cam or both already no surprise there and a facepalmer too
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72 GT Ute
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72BlackGTS
Senior Member Joined: 10-April-2007 Location: Millerton, NY Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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Nice video but in theory on a street driven vehicle they both will preform the same. Drag racing is a different story. No real performance advantage or disadvantage when used on a street driven vehicle. In my opinion. Worth .02 cents really. I'm thinking less clearance issues around the motor and tranny where space is at a premium is the more of an issue than the performance gain or losses. Ron
Edited by 72BlackGTS - 26-December-2012 at 12:56PM |
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Ron
1978 LTD II Sport-Green 2003 HD Road King Classic 100th Anniversary |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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UPDATE: I spoke to the company I'm trying to get to do the 429/460CJ style shorties this week and was assured they were interested in making them and would try and get started on the design work after the holidays when their production work dies down until spring. Hopefully I'll know more the first of the year...
Keep the faith!
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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72BlackGTS
Senior Member Joined: 10-April-2007 Location: Millerton, NY Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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Ron
1978 LTD II Sport-Green 2003 HD Road King Classic 100th Anniversary |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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Not trying to throw a wet blanket here but in comparisons in exhaust headers/manifolds, in most cases the "shortie" design is just barely better flowing than a decent exhaust manifold. The best designs are found to be equal length primary long tube headers and "Tri-Y" headers as far as a standard style of exhaust headers go. Popular Hot Rodding magazine had an article on exhaust headers a few months back with some pretty revealing results. I guess if the "shorties" are used just to get the exhaust system hooked up-great, but if you want the best design for efficiency and power numbers you may want to look elsewhere. Just sayin' .
BTW, I have never read or heard about "shortie" headers having more torque and/or horsepower as compared to a properly set of equal length primary long tube headers, having the same sized ports/primary tube diameters. I'm not saying they don't exist, just haven't read/heard about them. Edited by aquartlow - 16-November-2013 at 8:11AM |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Todd,
Yeah, I know they won't make near the power of the equal length headers, but the 429/460CJ exhaust manifolds out breathed the stock manifolds by a mile! IF you can find a set, you're looking a high dollar purchase and I want something to flow better than the FOMOCO piece without all the aggrivation of the long tube headers.... someting I can install and remove as necessary without having to pull/lift the motor... and not cost an arm and a leg! This is a street car and not a drag car so the power gain, while it would be nice, isn't as much as a concern as serviceability, ground clearances, etc.
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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Joe,
I can see your point, I hope I didn't sound like a know-it-all . I run Hooker 6126's, which I truly believe are the best fitting and performing headers for our 429-460+ powered intermediate chassis cars, but the do have some fitament issues. Todd
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Todd, |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Billy C
Senior Member Joined: 10-February-2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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Primary tube length can make a rather large impact on the power curve where is counts and of course that impact can only be taken advantage of with extensive dyno tuning for that particular motor build.
It order to truly maximize the way the exhaust system works with a particular build, extensive calculations and testing are required. Often for our deep breathing v8's a "one size fits all" approach does the trick and makes people happy enough to get rid of the heavy restrictive cast iron manifolds. Even if someone was to build a big block for our chassis and tune the piss out of it calculating the best header primary length, there is a very strong chance that based purely on chassis space restrictions that the "perfect" length for the headers may not even be possible. It's far cheaper just to give it a slightly more aggressive cam timing, make minor carb adjustments, or pull weight off the car to make up that 5% of power you could have got with the "perfect" primary length. Having the "perfect" headers is a thing hard core racers do to squeeze every last ounce of energy from the motor. Now that there is plenty of background info.. I think for a street/toy big block intermediate, shorter tubes (equal length of course) would work and sell very well given a cheaper price tag and easier fitment. Just having a lighter alternative to manifolds without the issues of the hookers would be great. Please, is someone does it though, stainless, stainless, stainlesssssss.
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-Billy Conturo
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1974xr7
Senior Member Joined: 26-October-2007 Location: Bassett,Va Status: Offline Points: 228 |
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Any update on these? I have a bad exhaust leak on the passenger side of my 429 in my 74. I think its at the manifold ! So I am looking at possibly going with headers. My car is factory AC too!
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Always looking for 1974 Q codes
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Spoke with the company again about the 429/460CJ shorties and he apologized for not being underway on these. They had another hot header to design that bumped us but he insured me they would indeed persue them once the new design was wrapped and they got caught up on production. He said they have a couple 72/76 Torinos in house to use as design mules as well as a set or two of the factory 429CJ Torino exhaust manifolds, so it sounds like it's just a matter of making time while also running a business. I'll touch base again about the end of February...
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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you may want to mention / make sure they know about the Crites mounts
with Crites mounts the engine is not in the factory position. a set of shorties that works with both the factory And the Crites mounts would be the but they need to be made aware before they jump in I went round & round with a guy at Hedman, he insisted that a 72 Ranchero was the same as the 70-71 Torino and their 72+ Torino hedders wouldn't work on a 72 Ranchero. they'd work on a 73 Ranchero but not a 72 at some point long ago they probably got bad info as to the production model year of a car they used to develop the hedders. dude threw out some of the Elliot's names that they got the chassis from to use any reason FPA shorties won't work? Edited by Rockatansky - 30-January-2014 at 3:11AM |
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72 GT Ute
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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Just like Dearborn Classics telling me many years ago that they don't have any parts for a Ford Elite?
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Scott Eklund
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Check Papadeaths project thread for the fitment issues with the FPA shorties....
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Billy C
Senior Member Joined: 10-February-2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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Also the fpa's aren't equal length.
The hookers are equal length. Equal length is a huge plus in my book
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-Billy Conturo
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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I don't think equal length will work with shorties.... ???
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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Billy C
Senior Member Joined: 10-February-2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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hmm. it would be tricky on the driver's side. I think would take some clever design and time to mock things up a bunch but it could probably happen. That damn power steering box is just right in the freakin' way. People just aren't supporting our platform.... yet. C'mon guys, your telling me we can't design something like this for a BB torino... |
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-Billy Conturo
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Billy C
Senior Member Joined: 10-February-2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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how many people are going to do a quick A-B picture comparison with the FPAs right now???
Don't bother, it's depressing. Na, but for real, the FPAs aren't too bad. It is great we are slowly having more folks support our platform
Edited by Billy C - 30-January-2014 at 4:01PM |
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-Billy Conturo
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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I'd think a tight tri-y would be easier to fit into a small space than a 4-1?
instead of 1 large pipe in the worst spot there'd be 2 smaller pipes and you'd gain better firing order balance too Edited by Rockatansky - 30-January-2014 at 5:26PM |
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72 GT Ute
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Well I contacted the firm I was talking to about the 460 shortie headers (Crites) and Charles said due to the amount of development work required to do a shortie 429/460 header and the limited number of sets he would sell, he would not be able to help us out. One thing that I did which probably was the nail in the coffin was to supply him a couple pics of the FPA shorties! Charles said after studying those FPA pics versus Crites' long tube headers that it really wasn't that much less of a run. As we discussed the reasoning behind the need for a shortie style and I mentioned the ease of install without having to jack up the engine, Charles said their headers were multi-piece with a bolt on collector so they could be installed without engine removal. I wasn't aware of that and explained why they used individual exhaust port flanges rather than the conventional one piece flange. He also mentioned his headers (2" pipe w/3 1/2" collector) would work with either the OEM or Crites engine mounts and were offered for stock or CJ exhaust ports.
So now I must decide between the factory 460 exhaust manifolds or a set of Crites 460 long tube headers... LOL, I'm going with Crites! I think I'll call him back and see if stainless steel is an option. Sorry for getting everyones hopes up and for those already running the Crites 460 headers... how easy were they to install and how well does the tube into collect area seal? THANKS ALL
Edited by TV 2M8O - 09-April-2014 at 12:39PM |
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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TV 2M8O
Senior Member Joined: 20-September-2006 Location: Southern Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Spoke with Charles again yesterday and for now their headers are only available in plain steel. Perhaps in the future they will also offer them in stainless....
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TV 2M8O OUT JOE 1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/ |
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