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Help on welder

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twood68 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14-January-2013 at 9:05AM
I have a buddy that has a Thunderbolt® XL 225/150 AC/DC that he will sell me, I would use it for my Torino project but I'm getting some guys say I should get a mig/ gas welder, issue is I can get this thing for $500 and it can give me a wider range of use and I wouldn't have to deal with extra cost of tanks and leasing if them, so will it be useful on body panel welding or is it a bust to try?

Any help on this I will use for best desision

Edited by twood68 - 14-January-2013 at 9:09AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 10:23AM
I'm no expert on welding but this machine seems to be only a stick welder.  If you are planning on trying to weld light gauge sheet metal like 18-20 gauge I don't think it can be done.  I think you should get a mig along with the necessary gas.  Depending on the input voltage, a good mig will allow you to do sheet and go up to 3/8 and better with multiple passes.
Just my 2 cents.

Good luck,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend onirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 10:55AM
im no expert either.  however, i tried to use a stick welder on some of my body panel repairs and gave up rather quickly.  broke down and went to lowes and bought a lincoln electric 125hd wire feed welder.  and i love it.  it was less than $400 when i bought it nearly 2 years ago.  you can use flux-corded wire and no gas is needed.
 
 
i would recommend a wire feed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 11:39AM
I would pass on the stick welder. If you don't like the idea of using gas shielding you can always use a flux core welding wire with a mig welder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 12:39PM
Yea I'm agreeing guys, I'm getting your all's same opinion from others as well, so I'm passing on it, keep my eye on the migs again.

Is the Lincoln's, Eastwood's and Hobart's in the same category of quality and over all good welder? Or not?

I seen a Eastwood auto body package, I think it was a 135 model for around $400??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 1:04PM
Can't speak for Eastwood.  Hobart is another line from Miller I think.  Miller seems to be a good brand but I may be biased since my mig is an old Miller 150.  My tig is a Lincoln.  I personally stick to name brands on large purchases based on the old "you get what you pay for".  I've heard of guys spending good money buying a cheapo thinking they would be money ahead but found the equipment lacking.
Just my opinion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 1:15PM
Can you use flux wire WITH the gas at the same time?

You know what I'm trying to say? The fluxe wire ( I think you can use without the gas ) but can you use the same wire with gas? Just thinking outside my box, lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 1:19PM
Originally posted by Grumpy Grumpy wrote:

Can't speak for Eastwood.  Hobart is another line from Miller I think.  Miller seems to be a good brand but I may be biased since my mig is an old Miller 150.  My tig is a Lincoln.  I personally stick to name brands on large purchases based on the old "you get what you pay for".  I've heard of guys spending good money buying a cheapo thinking they would be money ahead but found the equipment lacking.
Just my opinion.

Mike


thanks Mike, the more I'm looking at my question I want to make sure that no one takes advantage of my post and use it to slam a brand, just want to see if for the most part are they in the same block or is there a difference in them?

I'm not familiar with wire welders! Never used one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-January-2013 at 5:34PM
there is special cored wire for use with gas also, industry term is Dual-Shield but various manufacturers will have their own names. it's not designed to go 'either way', only as designed for a specific process
 
for a flux core machine today i'd buy a $99 special at Harbor Freight, and if you want gas capability go ahead and get a better quality machine for that... or bite it and swap spools / shut off the gas when you want to burn flux core wire
 
the need for flux cored wire arises from welding in places where you can't block the wind sufficiently to weld with shielding gas. F/C originates it's shielding at the weld puddle, instead of the gas needing to envelope the puddle. even in a garage with the door open you can easily have enough breeze that you can't keep the puddle shielded 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-January-2013 at 1:32PM
Eastwood has a 3 year factory warranty and the Lincoln has a 1 year factory warranty.

But I can pick this Lincoln up at lowes!

Can any wire be used on either welder? If I pick up a Eastwood could I pick up wire from lowes for it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-January-2013 at 3:55PM
wire is pretty universal as long as you have the corect type for the process,  & diameter for the machine set-up. IIRC my machine has .023" & .035" drive rolls but can also use .030"
 
as long as the drive rolls push the wire, the wire fits through the liner and you have the right diameter tip yer golden. you can even use a larger diameter tip for the wire but it might not be optimum, some guys run a slightly larger tip to keep from getting spattered up & siezed in the tip but i think it's hogwash. on larger machines with full duty cycle the tip can get too hot & start siezing up but that won't happen with a small machine unless you really push it too hard, then it'll probably cycle out anyway. if it's running too much spatter then you might want to make a setting adjustment, but FC does run pretty snotty as a rule, it won't ever run sweet like gas. just the way FC is, and you gotta watch your polarity between FC / gas too. NBD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend onirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-January-2013 at 4:32PM
Originally posted by twood68 twood68 wrote:


Can any wire be used on either welder? If I pick up a Eastwood could I pick up wire from lowes for it?
 
yes.  i have bought wire for mine from lowes and home depot, as long as they have your diameter in stock...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-January-2013 at 5:23PM
I'm still running with the used Lincoln 120VAC $200 MIG I bought from a shop I worked at.
Personally, flux core is for welding on farm equipment. Railings.
I'm not in the mindset of using it for bodywork.

But, Not my wallet, and you are the only one that can say it's what you can afford.

Welders are deff. a you get what you pay for it.

The newer Miller units are pieces of artwork, auto-adjusting, automatic sensing and adjusting, etc. 
I like they have a deal you can weld with 120, but then for higher power, 240VAC single phase power.

Personally, I'd love to have a larger unit that is 3 phase power for real welding. But then again, not like I am doing too many projects where I am doing 5/8" plate anymore.

Welding wire, there are different grades, thickness, etc.

This is a good case of I say, stop in at a local welding supply shop. Talk with the guys. See what the offer.
Some times bodyshop supply stores sell wire specific to the autobody market.
My welder is buried in the corner otherwise I would get the wire info off the spool.

One other tool when welding you can never have enough of:
GOOD vice grips.
Since American Tool {original owners of the Vice Grip, made in Dewitt, Nebraska} got bought out by Irwin and the production moved to China 5-6 years back, I seriously go out of my way to locate older USA made Vice grips.
 

What's funny is I have all my pictures of body work and metal work. None of my welder!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robot9000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2013 at 1:44AM
I bought the Eastwood setup this summer and have been very happy with the results.  I think it was money well spent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2013 at 2:52AM
Thanks guys for the feedback, its helped clear me up on what to look forSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote srwith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2013 at 10:58AM
Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

I would pass on the stick welder. If you don't like the idea of using gas shielding you can always use a flux core welding wire with a mig welder.

I like the stick welder for heavy work like the frame I just did. I will be getting a wire feed flux core when I get back home to use on the body. I do not want to hassel with getting gas. A mig easier and cleaner and keep the heat a little more under control. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2013 at 2:06PM
Actually correction the Lincoln does come with factory 3 year warranty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2013 at 4:01PM
I will not use Flux core on body work.
 
We had some cars at the body shop where I worked come back because of it.
Something about the chemical make up bla bla bla... but anyway...
The welding started to show through the paint and distort the color.
Hurt a serious money Camaro paint job.
 
was told by the Tool Dealers at the time THAT was the problem.
I think it might have been the body guy did not get the weld properly cleaned before applying putty/primer etc...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2013 at 6:29PM
Huh wow? Yea surely it was the welding guy, hate to think all these FC welders have a flaw on sheet metal?

Now don't get me wrong i totally want a gas mig but was seriously considering going with FC only to save some bucks, that way I could throw more money toward a compressor.

Anyone else heard bad reports on FC body finish work? Don't want to make a bad choice on this!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stanman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-January-2013 at 2:23AM
Well, it will cost more to gear up a regular mig than FC, mostly because of the bottle of gas. I bought my own bottle and use CO2 instead of the Argon / CO2 mix because it's cheaper and a welder told me that's all you need for most projects.

That being said, the last time I checked, flux core wire was way more expensive than regular steel wire. So, although you'll save a few bucks initially, you'll probably spend that and more on wire. You could save some money on a "gently used" setup off Craigslist or somewhere (that's where I bought mine). Fire extinguisher companies (up here anyway) can set you up with a used CO2 extinguisher tank with a proper mig welder valve for a reasonable amount. I think it costs about $20 to get them refilled and they last a long time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-January-2013 at 3:00AM
you have to watch out for silicon in the wire also. silicon helps the weld pool flow nice but stuff don't stick to silicon. for the quality of the weld itself and the elimination of flux impurities it might be best to set up for gas right off the bat. FC is a spit'n spattery mess that will likely cause more issues, it's best suited to projects that might never be seen & if they are it don't matter... like my car LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twood68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-January-2013 at 7:09AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

you have to watch out for silicon in the wire also. silicon helps the weld pool flow nice but stuff don't stick to silicon. for the quality of the weld itself and the elimination of flux impurities it might be best to set up for gas right off the bat. FC is a spit'n spattery mess that will likely cause more issues, it's best suited to projects that might never be seen & if they are it don't matter... like my car LOL

Thanks, i'm confident to go with a gas version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-January-2013 at 11:30AM
I have owned Craftsman AC/DC stick welder, 200 amp Miller MIG, and a 175 amp Eastwood MIG (all single phase machines) The Miller was my favorite because I got the optional stich weld timer but it was also the most expensive.

I don't weld Aluminum, but welding Steel regardless of the gauge the results are better using DC current instead of AC. I sold my Miller when I retired thinking I didn't need a welder when I retired but that was a mistake. I got the Eastwood 175 MIG 220v which is a DC machines and for light home use and price it's a decent welder.

My Flux core welding experience on a borrowed 110v AC MIG welder was poor. If you have friends with Welders ask them to try theirs.
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