72 351CJ vs 72 429

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   In 72 Ford only called the 351 4V a Cobra Jet and the horespower numbers must have distracted most buyers from looking at the torque differences between the 351CJ and the base 429. 

Engine.....Carb.....Code.....Compression..........HP...............Torque

351CJ.......4V........Q.............8.6:1.........266 @ 5400.....301 @ 3600

429..........4V........N.............8.5:1.........208 @ 4400.....322 @ 2800

If you took two identical 72 Torino's with only the differences in the engine, which one would go faster in the 1/4 mile?

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GranTorinoMan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920	Post Options Post Reply Quote GranTorinoMan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 72 351CJ vs 72 429 Posted: 06-February-2007 at 4:41AM
	In 72 Ford only called the 351 4V a Cobra Jet and the horespower numbers must have distracted most buyers from looking at the torque differences between the 351CJ and the base 429. Engine.....Carb.....Code.....Compression..........HP...............Torque 351CJ.......4V........Q.............8.6:1.........266 @ 5400.....301 @ 3600 429..........4V........N.............8.5:1.........208 @ 4400.....322 @ 2800 If you took two identical 72 Torino's with only the differences in the engine, which one would go faster in the 1/4 mile?

Hey Z Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 24-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 269	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hey Z Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06-February-2007 at 5:42AM
	My guess is the 429 would be faster because you need torque to move these cars and the torque comes in much lower than with the 351.

GranTorinoMan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920	Post Options Post Reply Quote GranTorinoMan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06-February-2007 at 6:14AM
	That was my thinking, however would the higher HP in the 351CJ and its lighter weight make up for its lower torque at the end of the track? Edited by GranTorinoMan - 06-February-2007 at 6:24AM

Hey Z Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 24-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 269	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hey Z Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06-February-2007 at 8:26AM
	I guess you'd really need to see the hp and tq. curves to be able to better answer since peak hp and tq. tell very little. My guess is that the 429 has a very nice flat tq. curve while the 351 does not, and this should overcome the peak hp and weight advantage of the 351.

JimW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 09-December-2003 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 602	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimW Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06-February-2007 at 2:54PM
	Don't forget about the gearing.. Would these have a factory 3.25 or 3.00 or a set of 4.11's? Manual or automatic? Bone stock or tuned a teensy bit? I guess it's a toss up depending on the setup, if you can only mess with the chassis, then I'd say the Cleveland, but the 429 has tons and tons of potential if you start doing little things like replacing the timing set and exhaust... (though, the 1972 heads were the worst possible 385 series head) Jim
	1976 S&H Gran Torino 460/C6/4.33 13.05@105.6 545/C6/3.56 11.52@117.8 More to come!!!! 463rwhp/495rwtq two tons of fun see it and hear it at: www.torinocobra.com www.st

GranTorinoMan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920	Post Options Post Reply Quote GranTorinoMan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06-February-2007 at 4:49PM
	My '72 429 Torino came from the factory with 3.00:1, 9" one tire fire and a C6. In '72 both 351CJ & 429 could be ordered with the same 3.25:1 Traction-Lok 9" rear-end and C6 transmissions, so this would be the common parts in the two fictitious Torino's. The 1973 Torino could be ordered with a 460 that was rated at 219hp @ 4400 rpm and 360-ils.ft. of torque @ 2,800 rpm but with a heavier front end. Maybe all 3 Torino's should be compared to see which one truly deserves the CJ badge. The 1/4 mile times published for stock Torino's was in the 17 second range back in 72 (embarrassing). I wonder if you can buy a race program where you can build a car with all the Torino specs? Edited by GranTorinoMan - 06-February-2007 at 5:00PM

torinospeed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 19-November-2006 Status: Offline Points: 131	Post Options Post Reply Quote torinospeed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11-February-2007 at 2:33AM
	1) does the 429 have a set of dove heads? 2) is the cleveland a 4 speed? 3) what gears does each car have? Id say the cleveland 4 speed would take it.
	Q-Code 73 Gran Torino Hurst 4 speed 351 Cleveland Posi "9

GranTorinoMan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920	Post Options Post Reply Quote GranTorinoMan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11-February-2007 at 3:22AM
	To do a fair comparison both cars should have the same transmission and rear-end. You couldn't order a 4-speed for the 429 from the factory. I had a 72 Ranchero GT 351CJ 4 speed and my 72 GTS C6(stock) in 1988 and it was hard to tell by the seat of my pants which one pulled harder. The Ranchero GT was a lot more fun to drive. My 72 GTS would pull more heads in looks dept. though. My Ranchero was badly rusted so I parted it out to help complete my Torino. A worthwhile sacrafice in my opinion. The base 429 heads on my engine weren't dove type because I remember looking for a pair that had those casting numbers to build at the time. Edited by GranTorinoMan - 11-February-2007 at 3:56AM

JimW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 09-December-2003 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 602	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimW Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12-February-2007 at 6:02AM
	Dove is the 1970 casting #, on the base 429 and all 460's. Same basic casting as the C8 and C9 460 heads onm the Lincolns and such.. The D2 heads are pretty bad, (not bad port-wise, only a big flat detonation prone combustion chamber) better swapped for the D3 heads from the 73 and later cars. The D0VE heads are the best pass car head by virtue of the small chamber and slightly better short turn.. Lots of options these days in the aftermarket to consider though.. Back on topic, my comment still stands, the low compression 351C/C6 would have a tough time pulling nearly 4000 pounds off the line with only a 3.00:1 gear, a 3.25 only slightly less so, but the 429 would have torque right off the line with both peaks between 800 and 1000rpm earlier.. Jim
	1976 S&H Gran Torino 460/C6/4.33 13.05@105.6 545/C6/3.56 11.52@117.8 More to come!!!! 463rwhp/495rwtq two tons of fun see it and hear it at: www.torinocobra.com www.st

torinospeed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 19-November-2006 Status: Offline Points: 131	Post Options Post Reply Quote torinospeed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15-February-2007 at 6:51AM
	I know you guys are refering to factory cars, but I think a a 4 speed car with a set of factory 2v heads on top of the cleveland on a 70-71 block (9.5-10.2:1 compression) would be the ultimate car as far as factory stock performance goes.
	Q-Code 73 Gran Torino Hurst 4 speed 351 Cleveland Posi "9

mcford Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160	Post Options Post Reply Quote mcford Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15-February-2007 at 12:05PM
	while not a complete apples to apples comparison, my 72 GTS 351CJ 4speed car ran 15.40's in bone stock trim. non a/c, buckets, console, 3.50 trac loc. 54,000 original miles my 72 ranchero gt, N code 429 ran a best of 14.96. c6 auto, bench seat, non a/c. 46,000 original miles. only advantage was 4.10 gears and not 3.50's. that is 1/2 a second quicker than the 351cj. take away thegears and WORST CASE scenario you MIGHT be as slow as the cj car. i was definitely suprised AND impressed with the ranchero. also, both cars weighed within 50 lbs of each other. 72 torino did not have the retarded camshaft, the ranchero did. both cars ran crane electronic ignition conversions. and the ranchero, i only had it for 3 weeks prior to running it in the pure stock drags. the torino i had had at the track at least 3 times prior.

torinospeed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 19-November-2006 Status: Offline Points: 131	Post Options Post Reply Quote torinospeed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16-February-2007 at 8:05AM
	im sorry, the 4 speed car would still be more fun. How about a 429 4 speed.
	Q-Code 73 Gran Torino Hurst 4 speed 351 Cleveland Posi "9

GranTorinoMan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14-August-2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 920	Post Options Post Reply Quote GranTorinoMan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19-February-2007 at 1:13PM
	Hey Mike, that's a pretty close comparison for 35 years after production. I think the CJ badge should be awarded to the 429/460 Torino's and Ranchero's. I know our cars design were inspired by the 747 Boeing Jumbo Jet but is that also why Ford added the "Jet" name to "Cobra"?