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Fuel injection conversion thoughts

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Robbdtme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbdtme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fuel injection conversion thoughts
    Posted: 02-September-2013 at 8:44AM
Been reading and tossing the idea around. GM 454 TBI is 645cfm which would be plenty.  This article uses a aftermarket control module and junk parts keeping cost way down. Thoughts anyone??
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/megasquirt-carb-to-efi-part1-nova.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GTW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2013 at 9:01AM
I think occupant talked about using an 80's GM TBI at one point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2013 at 9:46AM
Ford used TBI on crown vics, trucks, mustangs around 1984-1985. it was a fairly simple system made for them by holley. Holley used to sell this system as "Pro-jection" for 2 barrel systems and "Pro-jection 4" for 4 barrels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2013 at 9:48AM
Summit still sells this in a 670 cfm version
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbdtme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2013 at 10:06AM
From my reading all the Ford TBI's are 480CFM, 460's used 4bbl's until full port injection.  I had a 84 Cougar years back with TBI (302) that combined with running the timing chain 1 tooth advanced was quite the rocket. Anyway with the controller and using the stock distributers tach signal this conversion really costs no more than a decent 4bbl setup. Going to collect the parts and give it a try on a 400.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2013 at 1:45AM
This is something that I have extreme interest in. My wagon and my 4 speed have carb issues, and I have been in search of a reasonable alternative. Great idea.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote papadeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2013 at 9:37PM
I've been thinking about FI as well. I have to say they've made great strides and it's certainly more fuel efficient and smoother. One of those self tune jobbies from FAST only cost around 1,700 or so, but I'm going to require a few people telling me how great it is before taking that plunge as I have plenty of other things to worry about right now.. Please let us know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madmaxtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-September-2013 at 9:11AM
I had fast on my last car it was awesome. might try msd next time doesn't require return fuel line.

Edited by madmaxtorino - 04-September-2013 at 9:11AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohheadache Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-September-2013 at 2:21PM
why are you going to run tbi style
what motor are you running now the ford sfi like mustangs is an easy hook up me im running 89 460 efi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-September-2013 at 10:30AM
Originally posted by ohheadache ohheadache wrote:

why are you going to run tbi style
what motor are you running now the ford sfi like mustangs is an easy hook up me im running 89 460 efi
I would like to see how you did that because I have a 460's in both of my rancheros That I would Love to convert. (photos?????Big smile)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbdtme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-September-2013 at 4:48PM
Stating simple so  before any conversion going to run the 434 stroker on the dyno. Unfortunately I already had a weiland intake and barry grant 625 so this will be our starting point. I plan next on pulling the intake and 4bbl putting the stock iron 351m Intake for the TBI run. From my reading it should be more torque and die over 5000 rpm. Run 3 will be with full port injection. Will update
Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2013 at 1:59AM
Maybe you have found a solution, but when I checked into the FI 460 route, I found that the intake setup on a FI 460 is way too tall to fit under my hood (GTS hood, even). They are built for trucks with taller hood clearances.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbdtme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2013 at 8:01AM
In this case I found aftermarket spacer plates with injector ports that allow a 351C intake to bolt to a M or 400. They even have one for a 351W intake on a M block.Weird huh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PS122 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2013 at 8:08AM
I've considered a GM-based TBI swap myself (and probably posted somewhere here about it).  The following article may be somewhat useful:
 
 
The company referenced in the article, Turbo City no longer offers the kits I exchanged a few emails with company president, Tom Miller and he was very helpful.  It may be worthwhile giving him a call.  See his contact info below.
 
Tom Miller President
Turbo City, Inc./ TCI Products
1137 W. Katella Ave. Orange, CA 92867
PH: 714-639-4933 FAX: 714-997-1196
In any event, I think your on the right track with the 454 injection.  And based on what I've learned about the adaptability of the GM TBI, the factory 454 ECU will get you up and running (albeit with a few check engine codes).  From there, you are just looking at some fine tuning and there are several option for hacking/programming the GM ECUs.  (I have nothing against Megasquirt, in fact I'm a big fan, but you really have to like to play with electronics if you go that route).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohheadache Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-September-2013 at 2:01PM
you can use 460 intake its close but will work that set up im running in my72gts 
used factory looms  but you can buy painless set up .engine is ok but loom from ecm will need to be modified 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NwOh_Starsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2013 at 8:36AM
On a similar train of thought, what's to stop any of us from buying a late 80's early 90's crown vic or Lincoln, and robbing everything under the hood to end up with a 5.0 EFI setup?  They are Windsor small blocks, are they not?  I see these on CL all the time running for under $1000.  What am I missing?  It's gotta be something....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbdtme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2013 at 8:44PM
Originally posted by NwOh_Starsky NwOh_Starsky wrote:

On a similar train of thought, what's to stop any of us from buying a late 80's early 90's crown vic or Lincoln, and robbing everything under the hood to end up with a 5.0 EFI setup?  They are Windsor small blocks, are they not?  I see these on CL all the time running for under $1000.  What am I missing?  It's gotta be something....


I like the thinking but 302. Some others had  460 comments. In this case we are using a 400 stroker to a 434 M block. No factory anything ever. Could  apply to 351M's 400's...

We have a appointment next week on the dyno, First run. Unfortunately  I already have a weiland intake and Barry Grant 625 carb on it. Run was delayed as the shop took forever machining my heads. On this run I also will run the original 2bbl through a 4bbl to 2bbl adapter and run 3 a Holley 750 double pumper. Heads are 2v machined to the larger 4v valves. ( Yes it can be done ). 

While this engine is no where near stock anymore, It still will be interesting to see what happens. I will end up full port injection


Edited by Robbdtme - 19-September-2013 at 8:48PM
Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbdtme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2013 at 8:54PM
On another note we did pass a built 84 355 chevy monte carlo ss at 105 like it was standing still let off at 141mph. Not bad for a Mercury that weighs twice as much!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 5:11AM
Originally posted by madmaxtorino madmaxtorino wrote:

I had fast on my last car it was awesome. might try msd next time doesn't require return fuel line.


Alan,

I started researching the MSD Atomic EFI after we talked this weekend. It looks like an outstanding system with several things the Edelbrock does not have - notably timing control and fuel pump control.

However, the MSD achieves the "no return line needed" by the use of rubber fuel line the full length of the run (no steel line would be used) to dampen the pulsations.

They do make a kit for return line option however.

I would not feel comfortable having rubber line from tank to engine.

Still loving the Atomic EFI however.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 5:46AM
I bought a Holley Projection a couple weeks ago. Read all the reviews (some favorable, others not) and ended going for it because of the price ($350). Used, but in nice condition. Mine is the 4V version that can support higher horsepower applications and should work well on my 4 speed car in conjunction with the Mallory setup I bought from Mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 6:03AM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

I bought a Holley Projection a couple weeks ago. Read all the reviews (some favorable, others not) and ended going for it because of the price ($350). Used, but in nice condition. Mine is the 4V version that can support higher horsepower applications and should work well on my 4 speed car in conjunction with the Mallory setup I bought from Mark.


I'd love to see that on the wagon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 6:59AM
Scott, I am seriously considering buying a '92-'96 F150 with the 4.9 FI 6 and the 5 speed transmission for as transplant into the wagon. My concern is height with the tall F series intake, but would like to keep it a straight six if possible. Otherwise, it'll get a 5.0 HO FI/5 speed combo out of a Stang.

My current combo runs well, but I don't see a way to rid myself of a carb on the 250.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 7:21AM
Offenhauser 6019DP - Offenhauser Dual Port Intake Manifolds

This fits 240 & 300 CID.

Edited by GranTorinoSport - 29-October-2013 at 7:21AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PS122 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 8:57AM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

Scott, I am seriously considering buying a '92-'96 F150 with the 4.9 FI 6 and the 5 speed transmission for as transplant into the wagon. My concern is height with the tall F series intake, but would like to keep it a straight six if possible. Otherwise, it'll get a 5.0 HO FI/5 speed combo out of a Stang.

My current combo runs well, but I don't see a way to rid myself of a carb on the 250.
 
There's a lot of potential in the 300/4.9.  Check out the car in the link:
 
The contrarian in me loves going the six cylinder route...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 9:03AM
If you want to keep the factory EFI on the 300, it will not clear the hood. It loops over the top of the engine and will stick up 4-6 inches too high. When I got my thunderbird, it had a bad 302, and I had a 91 F150, and I did a lot of measuring. The 300 is taller than a V-8 before you add the injection/intake.



Edited by Big Bird - 29-October-2013 at 9:06AM
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 9:06AM
Hmm. That settles that...unless I do some GTS hood grafting...
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2013 at 9:08AM
After that, I started looking into 390 swaps, but ended up using a 5.0 GT motor converted to carbueration
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2014 at 7:05AM
It's been some time, but I thought I would chime in.
Regarding the fuel tank, I compared the tank off a '72 GTS, and a tank from a early mid-90's F series, the rear after axle tank.
Dimensional wise they are really close.
What is killer is you could use an F series EFI in-tank pump, and just use some AN conversion fittings to go from the Ford pump snaplock fittings to AN fittings in a breeze.

Another few basic thoughts was buy two new tanks, one torino, one F series and section out the area of the tank for the lock ring, and weld it in the brand new tank.

Alternatively, the Phantom EFI in tank pump is a pretty awesome setup after seeing this in person at a show. Simple enough install.

Fuel lines, my take is if I am going to upgrade to EFI, I am replacing my lines. We have 3/8" lines on our cars, and that's suitable to be used as a return line, or frankly I'd just as well replace the fuel line, and install a new return line.
Biggest issue as most of you guys know, lifting the body up high enough to get to the over the axle section of the line.

Not the best picture, but here you can sort of see the vent line that goes on the passenger side of the frame.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2014 at 7:25AM
I'll be considering the Phantom pump on my red wagon, if I cannot get something else to work. Here is another shot of the rear fuel lines on a coupe/sedan. Wagons are a bit different.




Edited by unlovedford - 28-May-2014 at 7:28AM
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbdtme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2014 at 7:22PM
Since I am running the 74 remains up to the junkyard friday I am checking out mid 90's f150 rear fuel tanks. My best friend owns the yard so everything is free for me. Thanks for the info
Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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