Fuel injection conversion thoughts |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Posted: 02-September-2013 at 8:44AM |
Been reading and tossing the idea around. GM 454 TBI is 645cfm which would be plenty. This article uses a aftermarket control module and junk parts keeping cost way down. Thoughts anyone??
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/megasquirt-carb-to-efi-part1-nova.htm |
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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GTW
Senior Member Joined: 21-January-2012 Location: SC Status: Offline Points: 5784 |
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I think occupant talked about using an 80's GM TBI at one point
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Griffin
1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Ford used TBI on crown vics, trucks, mustangs around 1984-1985. it was a fairly simple system made for them by holley. Holley used to sell this system as "Pro-jection" for 2 barrel systems and "Pro-jection 4" for 4 barrels.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Summit still sells this in a 670 cfm version
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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From my reading all the Ford TBI's are 480CFM, 460's used 4bbl's until full port injection. I had a 84 Cougar years back with TBI (302) that combined with running the timing chain 1 tooth advanced was quite the rocket. Anyway with the controller and using the stock distributers tach signal this conversion really costs no more than a decent 4bbl setup. Going to collect the parts and give it a try on a 400.
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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This is something that I have extreme interest in. My wagon and my 4 speed have carb issues, and I have been in search of a reasonable alternative. Great idea.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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papadeath
Senior Member Joined: 08-December-2011 Location: Eagle Rock, CA Status: Offline Points: 498 |
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I've been thinking about FI as well. I have to say they've made great strides and it's certainly more fuel efficient and smoother. One of those self tune jobbies from FAST only cost around 1,700 or so, but I'm going to require a few people telling me how great it is before taking that plunge as I have plenty of other things to worry about right now.. Please let us know.
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75 Ranchero in progress
04 Harley Deuce stage one kit 89 Toyota pickup modded 09 Scion XB (bought for the ol' lady) buy American! (sorry) skateboard 4 bicycles 1 scooter 2 dogs 2 stupid cats |
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madmaxtorino
Moderator Group Zombie Killing Training Instructor Joined: 04-August-2010 Location: Lawrenceburg Tn Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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I had fast on my last car it was awesome. might try msd next time doesn't require return fuel line.
Edited by madmaxtorino - 04-September-2013 at 9:11AM |
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Allan
Revelation 6:8 When there is no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth. |
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ohheadache
New Member Joined: 03-February-2013 Location: newyork Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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why are you going to run tbi style
what motor are you running now the ford sfi like mustangs is an easy hook up me im running 89 460 efi
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Dan the ranchero man
Senior Member Joined: 24-July-2011 Location: Mchenry,IL Status: Offline Points: 1173 |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Stating simple so before any conversion going to run the 434 stroker on the dyno. Unfortunately I already had a weiland intake and barry grant 625 so this will be our starting point. I plan next on pulling the intake and 4bbl putting the stock iron 351m Intake for the TBI run. From my reading it should be more torque and die over 5000 rpm. Run 3 will be with full port injection. Will update
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Maybe you have found a solution, but when I checked into the FI 460 route, I found that the intake setup on a FI 460 is way too tall to fit under my hood (GTS hood, even). They are built for trucks with taller hood clearances.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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In this case I found aftermarket spacer plates with injector ports that allow a 351C intake to bolt to a M or 400. They even have one for a 351W intake on a M block.Weird huh?
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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PS122
Member Joined: 23-March-2011 Location: Eaton, OH Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I've considered a GM-based TBI swap myself (and probably posted somewhere here about it). The following article may be somewhat useful:
The company referenced in the article, Turbo City no longer offers the kits I exchanged a few emails with company president, Tom Miller and he was very helpful. It may be worthwhile giving him a call. See his contact info below.
Tom Miller President
Turbo City, Inc./ TCI Products 1137 W. Katella Ave. Orange, CA 92867 PH: 714-639-4933 FAX: 714-997-1196 In any event, I think your on the right track with the 454 injection. And based on what I've learned about the adaptability of the GM TBI, the factory 454 ECU will get you up and running (albeit with a few check engine codes). From there, you are just looking at some fine tuning and there are several option for hacking/programming the GM ECUs. (I have nothing against Megasquirt, in fact I'm a big fan, but you really have to like to play with electronics if you go that route).
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Joe
'76 S&H Gran Torino http://starskytorino.com/joes/joes.html |
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ohheadache
New Member Joined: 03-February-2013 Location: newyork Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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you can use 460 intake its close but will work that set up im running in my72gts
used factory looms but you can buy painless set up .engine is ok but loom from ecm will need to be modified
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NwOh_Starsky
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Na Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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On a similar train of thought, what's to stop any of us from buying a late 80's early 90's crown vic or Lincoln, and robbing everything under the hood to end up with a 5.0 EFI setup? They are Windsor small blocks, are they not? I see these on CL all the time running for under $1000. What am I missing? It's gotta be something....
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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I like the thinking but 302. Some others had 460 comments. In this case we are using a 400 stroker to a 434 M block. No factory anything ever. Could apply to 351M's 400's... We have a appointment next week on the dyno, First run. Unfortunately I already have a weiland intake and Barry Grant 625 carb on it. Run was delayed as the shop took forever machining my heads. On this run I also will run the original 2bbl through a 4bbl to 2bbl adapter and run 3 a Holley 750 double pumper. Heads are 2v machined to the larger 4v valves. ( Yes it can be done ). While this engine is no where near stock anymore, It still will be interesting to see what happens. I will end up full port injection Edited by Robbdtme - 19-September-2013 at 8:48PM |
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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On another note we did pass a built 84 355 chevy monte carlo ss at 105 like it was standing still let off at 141mph. Not bad for a Mercury that weighs twice as much!
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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Alan, I started researching the MSD Atomic EFI after we talked this weekend. It looks like an outstanding system with several things the Edelbrock does not have - notably timing control and fuel pump control. However, the MSD achieves the "no return line needed" by the use of rubber fuel line the full length of the run (no steel line would be used) to dampen the pulsations. They do make a kit for return line option however. I would not feel comfortable having rubber line from tank to engine. Still loving the Atomic EFI however. |
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Scott Eklund
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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I bought a Holley Projection a couple weeks ago. Read all the reviews (some favorable, others not) and ended going for it because of the price ($350). Used, but in nice condition. Mine is the 4V version that can support higher horsepower applications and should work well on my 4 speed car in conjunction with the Mallory setup I bought from Mark.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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GranTorinoSport
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I'd love to see that on the wagon! |
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Scott Eklund
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Scott, I am seriously considering buying a '92-'96 F150 with the 4.9 FI 6 and the 5 speed transmission for as transplant into the wagon. My concern is height with the tall F series intake, but would like to keep it a straight six if possible. Otherwise, it'll get a 5.0 HO FI/5 speed combo out of a Stang.
My current combo runs well, but I don't see a way to rid myself of a carb on the 250. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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This fits 240 & 300 CID. Edited by GranTorinoSport - 29-October-2013 at 7:21AM |
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Scott Eklund
Webmaster |
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PS122
Member Joined: 23-March-2011 Location: Eaton, OH Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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There's a lot of potential in the 300/4.9. Check out the car in the link:
The contrarian in me loves going the six cylinder route...
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Joe
'76 S&H Gran Torino http://starskytorino.com/joes/joes.html |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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If you want to keep the factory EFI on the 300, it will not clear the hood. It loops over the top of the engine and will stick up 4-6 inches too high. When I got my thunderbird, it had a bad 302, and I had a 91 F150, and I did a lot of measuring. The 300 is taller than a V-8 before you add the injection/intake.
Edited by Big Bird - 29-October-2013 at 9:06AM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Hmm. That settles that...unless I do some GTS hood grafting...
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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After that, I started looking into 390 swaps, but ended up using a 5.0 GT motor converted to carbueration
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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It's been some time, but I thought I would chime in.
Regarding the fuel tank, I compared the tank off a '72 GTS, and a tank from a early mid-90's F series, the rear after axle tank. Dimensional wise they are really close. What is killer is you could use an F series EFI in-tank pump, and just use some AN conversion fittings to go from the Ford pump snaplock fittings to AN fittings in a breeze. Another few basic thoughts was buy two new tanks, one torino, one F series and section out the area of the tank for the lock ring, and weld it in the brand new tank. Alternatively, the Phantom EFI in tank pump is a pretty awesome setup after seeing this in person at a show. Simple enough install. Fuel lines, my take is if I am going to upgrade to EFI, I am replacing my lines. We have 3/8" lines on our cars, and that's suitable to be used as a return line, or frankly I'd just as well replace the fuel line, and install a new return line. Biggest issue as most of you guys know, lifting the body up high enough to get to the over the axle section of the line. Not the best picture, but here you can sort of see the vent line that goes on the passenger side of the frame. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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I'll be considering the Phantom pump on my red wagon, if I cannot get something else to work. Here is another shot of the rear fuel lines on a coupe/sedan. Wagons are a bit different.
Edited by unlovedford - 28-May-2014 at 7:28AM |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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Since I am running the 74 remains up to the junkyard friday I am checking out mid 90's f150 rear fuel tanks. My best friend owns the yard so everything is free for me. Thanks for the info
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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