Fresh 302 Overheating |
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TorinoFury
New Member Joined: 07-December-2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: 10-December-2016 at 3:16PM |
ok so here goes i have a new rebuilt 302 motor that tends to overheat while sitting at an idle for any mid to long durations...tried different thermostats still nothing, even installed a new Quad-core daul electric fan alluminum radiator...still nothing...it boggles my mind, now when drivong down the road its fine stays at 200dg with the 190 therostat.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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do the fans have good air volume? are the shrouds cover most of the radiator (so they pull air on all of the radiator--not just a couple of small areas)? are you getting good coolant flow in the radiator? what temp do the fans come on??? water pump???
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Stupid question, but are the fans pulling air through the radiator, or could they be running in reverse?
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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ahh good point joe!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TorinoFury
New Member Joined: 07-December-2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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The fans are wired on a relay which kicks on when the key is turned (running constantly) the shroud came with the purchase of the radiator and fans and covers the whole radiator minus where the fans are located (on the motor side pulling air through the radiator and blowing on the motor). When the car gets hot i can pour water on the top of the radiator and watch the heat hand drop, but the temp will keep rising till i turn her off...which most its been is 230
Edited by TorinoFury - 10-December-2016 at 8:45PM |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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strange! i have the factory radiator ,shroud, i did add a flex fan, but my 351W runs normal
i'm wondering if it's an issue with the pump??? not sure if ford did this with the water pumps like chevy did when they went to serpentine belts... the pumps for the serp. rotate backwards, but look the same, so the wrong pump could be on the wrong engine! don't know if ford did that, sounds stupid but it can happen?? that's why i asked about adequate flow in the radiator maybe the thermostat isn't opening correctly? or in backwards? the pointed end (top of the pic) should be facing into the housing (that the hose is connected to), the bottom (with the spring) should be facing inside the intake manifold (this may sound stupid but i've seen it happen!) Edited by californiajohnny - 10-December-2016 at 8:51PM |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TorinoFury
New Member Joined: 07-December-2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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ive came around a couple options 1 of which i hope not...1 option, head gaskets may be reversed (hope not)... 2 option, bored 60 over (i dont kno the build on this motor just kno its been a complete fresh build)... 3rd option, timing maybe out one notch...4th option, i have a lead foot (quite possible but unlikely the problem)...5th option, i had a thumpr cam installed was the highest lift i could go on a stock 302 and after completion the man told me even with double thickness gaskets he couldnt get the high rise eldebrok intake to seal with the farthest last 2 cylinders causing a very small vacume leak... P.S. yes the 190 thermostat is in correctly...i kno people tell me to geta smaller thermostat like a 170 or 180 but it just heats up past it like its nothing...with the 190 i can watch the temp go up to 210 and drop to 195 than heat back up to 210 than drop back to 195 for a couple times than hits 210 again but continues to rise while idleing
Edited by TorinoFury - 10-December-2016 at 8:59PM |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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i thought about the head gasket thing, double gaskets??? something don't sound right there!!!
all that you mentioned could be a possibility |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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If it overheats while idling usually equals not enough fan cfm, overheating while driving at speed usually points toward not having enough radiator capacity and/or internal radiator blockage. If 2 gaskets are being used to fix an issue, trouble will continue to haunt you until you "fix" the issue. Running too lean, retarded timing, blocked exhaust(rather unlikely) will contribute to elevated engine temps. Make sure the initial timing is good(12-16 degrees BTDC, maybe a bit more since you have a rather large camshaft), confirm the mechanical AND the vacuum advance is working correctly, a dial back timing light works great for this. A SBF also came with both a standard rotation and reverse rotation(serpentine belt applications) water pumps, just something to look at. Good luck
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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I would check the water pump first, just to rule it out. If timing is on point, I'd take a closer look at those head gasket, make sure they are on the properly.
I bet you you are running 2 intake gaskets because they milled the block or heads and didn't bother milling the intake to match.
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Water pump would be a first thought, not sure if timing covers are different for reverse-rotation.
If you have a little vacuum leak in a runner, you will run lean in those cylinders and they will run hot. One or two will still let the engine run, but it will run hot. Find out how much was the engine bored out when rebuilt...they don't like .060 and up, .030- .040 is about the reliable limit.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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madmaxtorino
Moderator Group Zombie Killing Training Instructor Joined: 04-August-2010 Location: Lawrenceburg Tn Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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If it doesnt overheat going down the road but does at idle it is definately a air flow at idle issue. the other problems would show up moving too. try a good multi blade fan driven by the engine to eliminate the electric fans not moving enough air.
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Allan
Revelation 6:8 When there is no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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^^^ i'd have to agree with allan. but this double gasket thing makes me wonder WTF is going on, and what else could wrong or go wrong???
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TorinoFury
New Member Joined: 07-December-2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Yea i like the added fan idea to the motor...i liked not having to add abit of power by not having that drag but i may have to, and the gasket on the intake is a single gasket but a double thickness of the oem gasket. i have heard maybe the heads were milled but not the intake hence y its not sitting right. i bought a 2800 stall so that the engine wouldnt be pulling so hard in drive therefore i can idle her back down some (had increased idle bc cam was so high the car would pull while dying in gear while holding the brake at said stop sign or redlight) i checked the pump today and is turning the right direction, ive even went as far as taking out the thermostat runing the engine and making sure i had adequate flow which has been approved and thermostat now back in...i paid 500 for the aluminum radiator quadcore daul electric fan so im i just have a hard time that such a nice setup would be failing at idle...turning on the switch an listening to thoes fans kick on sounds like the pre-check to a F-18 about to take off the runway
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Okay, if they milled the heads, the intake needs to be milled on the sides as well to correct the fit. Adding a thicker or doubled intake gasket is going in the wrong direction.
Curious as to your method of checking the water pump direction. Did you remove it and check vane direction? Edited by Big Bird - 11-December-2016 at 9:59AM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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TorinoFury
New Member Joined: 07-December-2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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removed pump completely an checked fan directions according to the rotation of the crank.
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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One question: Are the fans pullers(mounted on engine side of radiator) or pushers, pusher fans will NEVER be as efficient as a puller fan of the same size(and no, you shouldn't just wire them backwards to make them pullers). I run a factory dual cooling fan assembly on my BBF and the second fan really only comes on when the A/C is on and/or in very heavy traffic during the summer here in central Florida. If it is a fan issue, I would bet a 2-speed single fan assembly(Mark VIII or '95-'97 T-bird/Cougar) cooling fan would be plenty of fan to cool your ride.
Edited by aquartlow - 12-December-2016 at 10:17AM |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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that's a good point todd! wiring them backwards to reverse the rotation will work and blow some air but not efficiently due to the curve (pitch) of the blades being wrong!!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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TorinoFury
New Member Joined: 07-December-2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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