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Fresh 302 Overheating

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TorinoFury View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10-December-2016 at 3:16PM
ok so here goes i have a new rebuilt 302 motor that tends to overheat while sitting at an idle for any mid to long durations...tried different thermostats still nothing, even installed a new Quad-core daul electric fan alluminum radiator...still nothing...it boggles my mind, now when drivong down the road its fine stays at 200dg with the 190 therostat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2016 at 5:24PM
do the fans have good air volume? are the shrouds cover most of the radiator (so they pull air on all of the radiator--not just a couple of small areas)? are you getting good coolant flow in the radiator? what temp do the fans come on??? water pump???
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2016 at 5:46PM
Stupid question, but are the fans pulling air through the radiator, or could they be running in reverse?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2016 at 5:53PM
ahh good point joe!
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorinoFury Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2016 at 8:04PM
The fans are wired on a relay which kicks on when the key is turned (running constantly) the shroud came with the purchase of the radiator and fans and covers the whole radiator minus where the fans are located (on the motor side pulling air through the radiator and blowing on the motor). When the car gets hot i can pour water on the top of the radiator and watch the heat hand drop, but the temp will keep rising till i turn her off...which most its been is 230


Edited by TorinoFury - 10-December-2016 at 8:45PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2016 at 8:38PM
strange! i have the factory radiator ,shroud, i did add a flex fan, but my 351W runs normal
i'm wondering if it's an issue with the pump??? not sure if ford did this with the water pumps like chevy did when they went to serpentine belts... the pumps for the serp. rotate backwards, but look the same, so the wrong pump could be on the wrong engine! don't know if ford did that, sounds stupid but it can happen?? that's why i asked about adequate flow in the radiator
 maybe the thermostat isn't opening correctly? or in backwards?

 the pointed end (top of the pic) should be facing into the housing (that the hose is connected to), the bottom (with the spring) should be facing inside the intake manifold   (this may sound stupid but i've seen it happen!)
Stant 45359 195f Superstat Thermostat


Edited by californiajohnny - 10-December-2016 at 8:51PM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorinoFury Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2016 at 8:54PM
ive came around a couple options 1 of which i hope not...1 option, head gaskets may be reversed (hope not)... 2 option, bored 60 over (i dont kno the build on this motor just kno its been a complete fresh build)... 3rd option, timing maybe out one notch...4th option, i have a lead foot (quite possible but unlikely the problem)...5th option, i had a thumpr cam installed was the highest lift i could go on a stock 302 and after completion the man told me even with double thickness gaskets he couldnt get the high rise eldebrok intake to seal with the farthest last 2 cylinders causing a very small vacume leak... P.S. yes the 190 thermostat is in correctly...i kno people tell me to geta smaller thermostat like a 170 or 180 but it just heats up past it like its nothing...with the 190 i can watch the temp go up to 210 and drop to 195 than heat back up to 210 than drop back to 195 for a couple times than hits 210 again but continues to rise while idleing

Edited by TorinoFury - 10-December-2016 at 8:59PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-December-2016 at 9:05PM
i thought about the head gasket thing, double gaskets??? something don't sound right there!!!
 all that you mentioned could be a possibility
JOHN
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90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 1:26AM
If it overheats while idling usually equals not enough fan cfm, overheating while driving at speed usually points toward not having enough radiator capacity and/or internal radiator blockage. If 2 gaskets are being used to fix an issue, trouble will continue to haunt you until you "fix" the issue. Running too lean, retarded timing, blocked exhaust(rather unlikely) will contribute to elevated engine temps. Make sure the initial timing is good(12-16 degrees BTDC, maybe a bit more since you have a rather large camshaft), confirm the mechanical AND the vacuum advance is working correctly, a dial back timing light works great for this. A SBF also came with both a standard rotation and reverse rotation(serpentine belt applications) water pumps, just something to look at. Good luck 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 2:23AM
I would check the water pump first, just to rule it out. If timing is on point, I'd take a closer look at those head gasket, make sure they are on the properly.
I bet you you are running 2 intake gaskets because they milled the block or heads and didn't bother milling the intake to match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 3:40AM
Water pump would be a first thought, not sure if timing covers are different for reverse-rotation.
If you have a little vacuum leak in a runner, you will run lean in those cylinders and they will run hot. One or two will still let the engine run, but it will run hot. Find out how much was the engine bored out when rebuilt...they don't like .060 and up, .030- .040 is about the reliable limit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madmaxtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 7:40AM
If it doesnt overheat going down the road but does at idle it is definately a air flow at idle issue. the other problems would show up moving too. try a good multi blade fan driven by the engine to eliminate the electric fans not moving enough air.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 8:16AM
^^^ i'd have to agree with allan. but this double gasket thing makes me wonder WTF is going on, and what else could wrong or go wrong???
JOHN
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90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorinoFury Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 9:41AM
Yea i like the added fan idea to the motor...i liked not having to add abit of power by not having that drag but i may have to, and the gasket on the intake is a single gasket but a double thickness of the oem gasket. i have heard maybe the heads were milled but not the intake hence y its not sitting right. i bought a 2800 stall so that the engine wouldnt be pulling so hard in drive therefore i can idle her back down some (had increased idle bc cam was so high the car would pull while dying in gear while holding the brake at said stop sign or redlight) i checked the pump today and is turning the right direction, ive even went as far as taking out the thermostat runing the engine and making sure i had adequate flow which has been approved and thermostat now back in...i paid 500 for the aluminum radiator quadcore daul electric fan so im i just have a hard time that such a nice setup would be failing at idle...turning on the switch an listening to thoes fans kick on sounds like the pre-check to a F-18 about to take off the runway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 9:57AM
Okay, if they milled the heads, the intake needs to be milled on the sides as well to correct the fit. Adding a thicker or doubled intake gasket is going in the wrong direction.
Curious as to your method of checking the water pump direction. Did you remove it and check vane direction?


Edited by Big Bird - 11-December-2016 at 9:59AM
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorinoFury Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2016 at 6:17PM
removed pump completely an checked fan directions according to the rotation of the crank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2016 at 10:16AM
One question: Are the fans pullers(mounted on engine side of radiator) or pushers, pusher fans will NEVER be as efficient as a puller fan of the same size(and no, you shouldn't just wire them backwards to make them pullers). I run a factory dual cooling fan assembly on my BBF and the second fan really only comes on when the A/C is on and/or in very heavy traffic during the summer here in central Florida. If it is a fan issue, I would bet a 2-speed single fan assembly(Mark VIII or '95-'97 T-bird/Cougar) cooling fan would be plenty of fan to cool your ride.

Edited by aquartlow - 12-December-2016 at 10:17AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2016 at 2:03PM
that's a good point todd! wiring them backwards to reverse the rotation will work and blow some air but not efficiently due to the curve (pitch) of the blades being wrong!!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorinoFury Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2016 at 5:45PM
No their pullers from the engine side. ill take a picture an post it tomorrow.

Edited by TorinoFury - 13-December-2016 at 4:30PM
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