Front control arms |
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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Posted: 29-August-2014 at 1:26PM |
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I was doing some work n my boss 69 Camaro and I saw he's running stock lower control arms and adjustable uppers. It gives him a really nice caster angle (seems to be about 5 to 10 degrees).
I need to take a pic to show you guys. It looks great, and from what he told me, it handles really well too. What do you guys think about it, I am looking to have a lot more responsive front end, as I remember my 73 to be pretty much boaty.
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5845 |
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A decent set of springs, bushings, sway bars and shocks will eliminate any boaty ride. These upgrades will likely be all that you need for the street on one of these cars. The stock springs on these cars were very soft with the standard suspension. HD were better, Competition was best, but CVPI springs are even stiffer yet.
Edited by 72FordGTS - 29-August-2014 at 2:47PM |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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legend onirot
Senior Member METAL GOD Joined: 18-January-2009 Location: hattiesburg ms Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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stacy lynn is pretty responsive in the suspension area.... at least alot better after i replaced everything/restored her. but i would imagine that it would be even better with adjustable lower control arms. but... are they available for our cars?
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malcolm 1973 gran torino sport (formal)... "Stacy Lynn" 1972 gran torino (formal)... "Mackenzie" 1973 gran torino sport (sportroof)... "Leela" |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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There used to be a lot of suspension parts for the front of these cars. The 65 galaxie style strut front end was used in NASCAR well into the 90s. Holman-Moody and others made upgraded suspension parts for this, and they fit 72-79 torino-chassis cars as well as 65-78 fullsize, and 67-79 thunderbird.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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75GranMan
Senior Member Joined: 05-April-2011 Location: Colchester, CT Status: Offline Points: 1225 |
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I've never seen a Boss 69 camaro
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John 75Gran Torino 4spd
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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^^^yeah, me either! better post a pic of it (i prefer the 68 though)
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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I mean my boss's car. I'll snap a pic of the suspension. His car is pretty much incredible, and sounds gorgeous through the dual 3"exhaust ( I love the sound of flowmasters)
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Billy C
Senior Member Joined: 10-February-2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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I would make sure more caster angle is what is really wanted. It might not do anything other than make the car harder to parallel park. I agree with some of the others on this. All new suspension components really makes the car.
I haven't gone into crazy suspension tuning on these cars yet so I don't know what's going to be necessary. I do know that because of the upper arm's slotted design, it's very limited in range of combined camber and caster adjustment. The design I came up with will relive the upper control arm of the majority of caster duties. Compliance in the radius rod is another huge problem with sticky tires. A static setup might give you 10*pos caster but once the brakes get mashes to the floor on corner entry you can bet your ass that front wheel is moving far enough back to knock 5* off your static. A while back I shot some Go-Pro videos of all the suspension under the car to see what was really going on. The amount of compliance in the rubber radius rod bushing is insane. I never got a chance to upload the videos. Maybe one of these days I'll get em uploaded.
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-Billy Conturo
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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Well, I did an alignment on it today, set up everything at 4.5* for a base. Everything is pretty stiff, and it wold be a lot stiffer if he wasn't running 18" wheel on 40 series. It definitely a good set up, handles like it's on rail, very limited body roll and incredible handling.
Got some pics on my phone, I need to upload. I'm just surprise how little can make it so much better.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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still waiting for pics of that camaro.
Edited by californiajohnny - 30-August-2014 at 1:04PM |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5845 |
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The other thing to keep in mind in is that the 67-69 Camaros had poor front suspension geometry from the factory. GM complete revised this for the 1970+ Camaros, which are considerably better handling cars stock for stock. There is tons of aftermarket for the proverbial '69 Camaro, but keep in mind those companies are out to make money. So if they can make you think that you will see huge improvements with their parts, they will so they can sell it to you.
Again, though, you can make a Torino handle very well without going to the added expense and complications of modifying suspension geometry. My car handles very well with almost no body roll with stiffer springs, bilstien shocks, and upgraded sway bars. Yes, the geometry can use improvement on these cars, but I doubt most of us, even those who drive aggressively will ever see the benefit on the street.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Billy C
Senior Member Joined: 10-February-2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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The geometry it's self isn't really even that bad. The front has good pick up points and plenty of adjustment options with the upper control arm and standard toe link. I'd venture to say better than the shim design like GM used a lot through the 70s (as a same class comparison). The two biggest issues I have actually had that can be deadly is the rear suspension binding and the front compliance in the radius rod under hard braking. Both are due to the increased load achieved with newer tire technology. Which brings us back to the real reason we can even talk suspension, brakes, and drive-line upgrades... The tires obviously
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-Billy Conturo
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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Thanks, my in law was looking at my screen and first thing he saw is the girl in bikini, I think he's gonna kill me shortly. I understand many companies are out there trying to get our cash by selling crap, or slightly better parts. I'm not looking to spend money for the heck of it, I just want to improve the handling of my future car. I remember the boaty ride I had, even after getting new shocks and stiffer springs.
For those who wanted to see it, here's the camaro. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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that large sway bar makes a difference too! i wanted to see the whole car BTW!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5845 |
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The suspensions on our cars do camber the wrong way when the car rolls in the corners. This is the poor geometry that can't really be altered without changing the control arm mounting points or possibly altering the spindle height. I don't know how badly it does this, but I do know these cars were designed with smooth comfortable rides taking priority over handling. Although I agree with you that the slot design is better than the shim design for adjustment, I do believe that the 70's Camaro's and the 70's GM A-bodies had better suspension geometry compared to our cars. The 70's F-bodies, especially the Trans Ams, were some of the best handling cars of their day.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5845 |
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Altering the suspension geometry will do little to get rid of the boaty ride, this is all springs and shocks. Sway bars help reduce body roll without giving a stiffer ride. Altering the suspension geometry will allow the wheel to camber properly in a corner, which will give you more grip or cornering power. Of course, worn bushings will make the stock suspension have even poorer geometry. So good bushing are a must. If you replaced your springs with factory replacements (ie Moog 1973 Torino springs) you are still going to have a boaty ride. The only springs available today are basically the same as the soft standard suspension. Nobody makes a spring for the competition suspension, which is why so many of us use CVPI springs. Further, good quality shocks are a must, parts store replacements will likely be too weak to handle a strong spring. Like I said, my car handles very well, and has not a spec of float in its ride with all stock geometry.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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Here ya go, pardon my awful accent, still a work in progress.\
Edited by ilyes - 31-August-2014 at 1:10PM |
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Billy C
Senior Member Joined: 10-February-2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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oops, sorry. As far as the camero goes... I'm not a fan of the upper arm design, however I am always in favor of whatever works, works. So if it hasn't failed yet and it's getting him where he wants to be, it doesn't matter if I'm a fan of it or not. Nice pics too.
Yes, we'll see. It's going to be close. Maybe I can get it dialed in when the time comes.
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-Billy Conturo
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EEi_2oeLSM&list=UUCvfjJbA0lFepc3eyuX1CCw
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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nice car, sounds awesome!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5845 |
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You're the guy with the resources and skills to see if there can be an improvement. Good luck!
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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