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front disk break updates?

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kversch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: front disk break updates?
    Posted: 19-October-2012 at 6:13PM
looking for any and all info anyone may have on updating the front disk brakes.   I now have a set of mark 4 calipers and brackets so i can go up to a larger rotor.   I have been trying to find info on the police rotors  but am having a hard time finding much info at all about them.
-kevin-
Brown 72 gran torino 351c 2v
Black 73 GTS FB 302
Red 73 GTS FB 351C C6 trans
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97 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel

http://kverschtorino.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 12:20AM
kversch,
  By upgrading are you referring to increasing the diameter of the front rotors? If so, Mark IV's used 11 13/16 rotors which is an increase over the 10 3/4" rotors that most Ford/Mercury intermediates came with. These Mark IV rotors use the very same wheel bearings, brake calipers and brake pads as the smaller rotor version uses, but there are differences in the caliper mounting bracket and the Mark IV rotor's bolt pattern being a 5 on 5" bolt circle whereas most Fords used the 5 on 4.5" bolt circle. There is an 11 13/16 rotor that Ford made with a 5 on 4.5" BC the problem is that it was made for '72 only and the differences in bearing size/location where it mounts on the spindle requiring a set of '72 front spindles from an LTD and possibly a Thunderbird or Torino, to use these one year only rotors to be able to be used. Another option is using the Mark IV rotors but having them redrilled for the smaller bolt pattern. There are aftermarket options available at considerable cost. I hope this helps, Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 1:08AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

kversch,
  By upgrading are you referring to increasing the diameter of the front rotors? If so, Mark IV's used 11 13/16 rotors which is an increase over the 10 3/4" rotors that most Ford/Mercury intermediates came with. These Mark IV rotors use the very same wheel bearings, brake calipers and brake pads as the smaller rotor version uses, but there are differences in the caliper mounting bracket and the Mark IV rotor's bolt pattern being a 5 on 5" bolt circle whereas most Fords used the 5 on 4.5" bolt circle. There is an 11 13/16 rotor that Ford made with a 5 on 4.5" BC the problem is that it was made for '72 only and the differences in bearing size/location where it mounts on the spindle requiring a set of '72 front spindles from an LTD and possibly a Thunderbird or Torino, to use these one year only rotors to be able to be used. Another option is using the Mark IV rotors but having them redrilled for the smaller bolt pattern. There are aftermarket options available at considerable cost. I hope this helps, Todd
 
 I should have wrote "updating" instead of upgrading, sorry for my error. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 1:54AM
Good info. I would like to upgrade as well and am looking into a 5 X 5 bolt pattern rotor off a GM truck, since I have a 9 inch with the disc brakes and that bolt pattern. Wonder what i would have to do to make that work?

Do you want me to pull the '72 spindles off for you that are on that Ranchero before I scrap it?
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 6:02AM
Yes i am refering to increasing the sized, and possibility of going with drilled and slotted rotors.     I would like to stay with the 5 on 4.5  to avoid having to change the rear over.  (side question:  what years had 9in rears with a 5 on 5  to make for a relatively easy swap?)    So ford only offered the larger rotors in 1972?    Was there a 73 police rotor that was bigger?   Did it use the 73 spindles or would you still need to have a set of 72 spindles?

When i was looking on rock auto  they show a premium rotor for the police/taxi cars for both 72 and 73.  They show them to be the same rotors.  Both being the larger size.  The 72 are Raybestos pn: 6028R and the 73 are Raybestos pn: 6030R.    The stock rotors for 72/72 shair the same part number Raybestos pn: 6026R     

Now I also came across a NOS set of rotors on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/73-Ford-Galaxie-Torino-Ranchero-Mercury-Disc-Brake-Rotor-Pair-NOS-Police-Taxi-/400322875061?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d351a4eb5&vxp=mtr   The seller says they are 1973 Galaxie, Torino, Ranchero, Mercury police taxi brake rotors.  The ad says they are the larger diameter 11 23/32.    The part number listed is 6030.  Witch matches the rock auto part number from Raybestos.    The interchange part number reads D3OZ-1102-A.


What are the difference in bearing size and location from the 72 to the 73?
-kevin-
Brown 72 gran torino 351c 2v
Black 73 GTS FB 302
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http://kverschtorino.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 7:15AM
A rear axle assembly from a '75-'76 T-bird as well as mid 70's Lincoln Mark series have the larger 5 on 5" BC as well as rear disc brakes(sometimes an added bonus), that will bolt right into the same brackets and use upper/lower rear control arms. Ford, IIRC, only offered the larger 11.72" diameter rotors with a 5 x 4.5" BC in '72(example '72 LTD).  A '73-on Police/Taxi rotor is basically a Lincoln rotor, by that I mean that it will bolt up to the '73-on Torino spindle(dimensionally the same as far as bearings, seal and bearing placement go). They designated that the rotor being Police/Taxi because of the larger rotor diameter being able to be used on an intermediate car line. If you look up bearings/seals for the front of a Lincoln Continental/Towncar or a '73-'76 Torino they will be identical, even though the Torino came with a smaller rotor with the smaller BC. I am not sure of spindle interchangability between the Lincoln & Torino though. Police and Taxi rotors of this era were almost always a 5 x 5" BC (I have never seen a 5 x 4.5" BC Police/Taxi front rotor of the 70's). I know the LTD spindle that would allow an 11.72" or so front rotor, is a bit "stubbier" than a later model spindle. The later model spindles spread the bearings further apart making for a more stable set-up with less force working against the wheel bearings. Another note is the overall height of the rotor of these larger diameter 5 on 4.5" BC rotors, they have a height that is about .30" shorter(remember the stubbier spindle design?), which could basically move the rotor's brake surface centerline (depending on bearing placement and/or spindle design). If you have a '72 Torino, the '72 LTD's larger rotors will work with the bearings but you will need to get the caliper mounting brackets because of the diameter difference. If you are working with a '73 then having the rotors re-drilled for the smaller BC is an option or changing the rear axle to the larger 5 x 5" BC is another. Sorry to be so long winded, just trying to give as much info I have discovered when I investigated going with larger rotors. I hope this helps. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 11:18AM
That is great info. So, if I use my '75 spindles, I can utilize the Lincoln/Torino taxi rotors with no mods? What calipers and brackets would we have to use?
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 1:16PM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

That is great info. So, if I use my '75 spindles, I can utilize the Lincoln/Torino taxi rotors with no mods? What calipers and brackets would we have to use?
 
Yes, you will just need to find/purchase the caliper mounting brackets that are used for the larger rotors for the conversion to be successful. The brackets will mount to both the Torino or Lincoln, the mounting points on the spindle are identical. You can also use brackets from other "big" car models of the 70's if needed. Models include, '75-'76 T-bird,'74-on Mercury Marquis, Lincoln Continental-Towncar-Mark series, Ford LTD and maybe a few others. The calipers, brake pads, brake caliper bracket bolts and caliper hardware are the same. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 1:48PM
Todd this is all amazing info  thanks so much for the help so far.Thumbs Up
ok so I have the caliper mounting brackets I purchased from nick  http://forum.grantorinosport.org/nos-72-bumper-guards-police-calipers_topic7943.html

they were from a mid 70s mark 4.   so in order to use the larger rotors on my 73 gts  i just need to take the 72 spindles form the 72 gts parts car i have correct?  and use the rotors for a 72 police/taxi  and then I will still maintain the 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern in the front.  

so the 73 police/taxi i saw would be a 5 on 5 bolt pattern then or am i confused still.


I apologize for all the confusion and questions.  Slowly trying to sort all the technical info out in my head.
-kevin-
Brown 72 gran torino 351c 2v
Black 73 GTS FB 302
Red 73 GTS FB 351C C6 trans
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97 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2012 at 3:40PM
Originally posted by kversch kversch wrote:

Todd this is all amazing info  thanks so much for the help so far.Thumbs Up
ok so I have the caliper mounting brackets I purchased from nick  http://forum.grantorinosport.org/nos-72-bumper-guards-police-calipers_topic7943.html

they were from a mid 70s mark 4.   so in order to use the larger rotors on my 73 gts  i just need to take the 72 spindles form the 72 gts parts car i have correct?  and use the rotors for a 72 police/taxi  and then I will still maintain the 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern in the front.  

so the 73 police/taxi i saw would be a 5 on 5 bolt pattern then or am i confused still.


I apologize for all the confusion and questions.  Slowly trying to sort all the technical info out in my head.
 
Yes, the '72 Police/Taxi(LTD) 11.72" rotors have the 5 on 4.5" BC and should mount to the '72 GTS spindles which are then mounted on your '73 chassis(starting to sound like that "One piece at a time" Johnny Cash song). The '73 and later Police/Taxi 11.72" rotors have the larger 5 on 5" BC(same as previously mentioned Lincoln's, Mercury's and larger Fords. Due to Ford doing strange things during the 70's you would be wise to do "hands-on" trial and error part fitament to be absolutely sure of part interchange. The ball joints look to be the same #'s for upper and lower for '72-'76 so you should be good to go there. I was confused LONG before this LOL. Todd  
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2012 at 1:33AM
Kversch,
 As a side note, depending on when in '73 your GTS was produced, you may be able to install the larger rotors to the GTS spindles instead of having to swap to the '72 spindles. In late '73  Ford/Lincoln/Mercury went with their version of standardized bearings for their intermediate/fullsize car lines. Like I referred to in my previous reply, it's really a must to do a trial and error fitament of parts to ensure compatability. Good luck with your project and keep us posted on the outcome. Fordmuscle.com also has a write-up of doing this very same conversion, they have some  good info as well. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2012 at 1:57AM
i was gonna point out regarding a reference to using 1973 parts somewhere up above...
 
just skip over thinking about using a 73 as a donor car unless you can verify that it's a late m/y build date with the 74+ style spindles. 73 was a transition year
 
Cardone 16-4083 & 16-4084 'bolt-on-ready' calipers include brackets
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PS122 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2012 at 12:58PM
I've been planning to upgrade to the 11.72" rotors but have had considerable difficulty finding the caliper mounting brackets. (Few yards around here have parts going back to the70s). Any ideas for sourcing them?
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CheeseSteakJim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2012 at 1:56PM
I just sold a pair to Kversch a couple weeks ago, they were for sale on here. Brackets from a 70's Lincoln Continental are the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2012 at 2:11PM
Are these available used in JY only, or can they be purchased OTC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2012 at 2:19PM
the Cardone numbers i listed above also apply to a 1974 Lincoln Continental
 
Cardone 'bolt-on-ready' calipers come with brackets
 
 
i didn't find caliper brackets available separately on the Cardone site but they do have ebay listings for brackets only, not sure what the PN would be for our app


Edited by Rockatansky - 21-October-2012 at 2:22PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-October-2012 at 3:15PM
So something like this would make a good parts car to get a lot of the parts off?   Should this have a disk brake rear 9in to?  http://fingerlakes.craigslist.org/cto/3337068434.html
75 lincoln mark 4

image 1

-kevin-
Brown 72 gran torino 351c 2v
Black 73 GTS FB 302
Red 73 GTS FB 351C C6 trans
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73 torino 4dr, 302, FMX parted
97 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel

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yes it does

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That markIII in the background in the 4th pic, should have a RIMBLOW steering wheelWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2012 at 3:23AM
Big front discs
rear discs
sway bars
tilt (with some work)
Rim-don't-blow wheel
460/c6

If you're feeling adventurous the rear abs could be adapted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2012 at 6:30AM
correct me if I'm wrong but that Licoln will have the bigger 5x5 bolt pattern?
But everything else should bolt right up.
 
Was there a WIDTH difference on the rear end?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2012 at 7:15AM
Mark III does not, not sure on Mark IV. Mark III axles will fit a Torino housing.

Also.



Edited by Psquare75 - 23-October-2012 at 7:16AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-October-2012 at 11:22AM
To those who have done this conversion, is there a real world difference in stopping power? Or does the larger rotor just offer more thermal capacity?

Has anyone tried hi-po brake pads to increase stopping power? I see that Hawk makes several options for our cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2012 at 10:19AM
just realized i spelled  drakes wrong in the title  oops.

next question do you gain anything by changing over to a 5 on 5?   are there more after market options available for a the 5 on 5 vs  the 5 on 4.5?    Whats the bolt pattern  for mustangs of the 70's?

I checked the build date on my car its a mind year car  I think it was a May of 73 car.   I pulled a wheel and measured across the rotor and drums  and found that its a 5 on 4.5.

So that means in order to use the larger police/taxi rotors I most likely need to change over my spindles to the 72 spindles right?


-kevin-
Brown 72 gran torino 351c 2v
Black 73 GTS FB 302
Red 73 GTS FB 351C C6 trans
73 GTS FB Parted
73 torino 4dr, 302, FMX parted
97 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel

http://kverschtorino.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2012 at 10:46AM
Mustangs and Torinos (w/o Police option) have 5 X 4.5 bolt patterns. The 5 X 5 bolt pattern was full-sized Ford cars (up to 1978, then 5 X 4.5 pattern)and 1/2 ton GM trucks from 1970's through the 1998 models. 1/2 Ton Ford trucks from the 50's through 1996 (except certain light-duty '80's F100 ((5 X 4.5)) have the 5 X 5.5 bolt pattern. Some F150's in the 1997-2003 models have that same pattern, but much different offset.

Mopar had 5 X 4.25 and 5 X 4.5 bolt patterns for cars and 5 X 4.5 and 5 X 5.5 for later 1/2 ton trucks

AMC had 5 X 4.5 bolt patterns

Confusing, but I have dealt with mixing wheels for years.

** THESE ARE ONLY FOR THE 5 BOLT PATTERN VERSIONS **

Edited by unlovedford - 25-October-2012 at 10:50AM
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2012 at 1:17PM
Originally posted by kversch kversch wrote:

just realized i spelled  drakes wrong in the title  oops.

next question do you gain anything by changing over to a 5 on 5?   are there more after market options available for a the 5 on 5 vs  the 5 on 4.5?    Whats the bolt pattern  for mustangs of the 70's?

I checked the build date on my car its a mind year car  I think it was a May of 73 car.   I pulled a wheel and measured across the rotor and drums  and found that its a 5 on 4.5.

So that means in order to use the larger police/taxi rotors I most likely need to change over my spindles to the 72 spindles right?


 
It would be really hard to give accurate advice on what will fit/interchange without removing the the hub/rotor and inspecting the spindle or better yet removing the inner bearing and look at it's part number on your '73. You may have the early model spindles still on your Torino, allowing the '72 and early '73 larger brake rotors with the 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern.  If you remove the hub/rotor and look at the inner wheel bearing #'s you should find inner bearing #L68149 with inner bearing cone/race #L68110 which has an O.D. of 2.328" for this to work with the larger early model hub/rotor that is 11.72" diameter police/taxi rotors with 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern. If your inner wheel bearing # is L69349 with inner bearing cone/race #L69310 which has an O.D. of 2.48", then you have the later model spindle on your Torino. The outer wheel bearings/cones(races) are the same for the early and later models. I hope this helps and doesn't add confusion. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2012 at 1:24PM
Not at all Todd  thanksThumbs Up   This is just the kinda info I have been looking for.  I love digging deep in to my car to see just what I have.   Then being able to do the research and figure out how I can make it better.

joe thanks for the info.    So the 5 on 5 vs the 5 on 4.5 really is only changing wheel choices and the 5 on 4.5 was used enough that it doesn't effect options then.
-kevin-
Brown 72 gran torino 351c 2v
Black 73 GTS FB 302
Red 73 GTS FB 351C C6 trans
73 GTS FB Parted
73 torino 4dr, 302, FMX parted
97 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-October-2012 at 1:41PM
Always glad to help when possible Wink. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
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I'd upgrade tires before upgrading brakes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-October-2012 at 1:43PM
I pulled apart the passenger side front brakes to try and determine exactly what spindles I have on my car.  The first thing I noticed was there seemed to a lot of play back and forth before I even loosened anything. When I looked the inner bearing over I found that it was as Timken and its PN is JL69349  And the race PN is JL69310.    The bearing didnt seem to fit on the spindle at all and appears that having the wrong bearing on had damaged the spindle.  


 I look a look at the spindles off of the 73 4 door we parted out.   The inner bearing on that had a PN of L68149 and a race PN L68110.  Making them the early spindles.     I tried the inner bearing on the spindles that are on my car and it fit perfect making me think they to are the early 73 spindles and the previous owner was sold the wrong bearings at some point.



-kevin-
Brown 72 gran torino 351c 2v
Black 73 GTS FB 302
Red 73 GTS FB 351C C6 trans
73 GTS FB Parted
73 torino 4dr, 302, FMX parted
97 F250 crew cab 7.3 diesel

http://kverschtorino.blogspot.com/
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