The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Powertrain Specific Forum > Transmissions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Transmission Seal Installation Question.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Transmission Seal Installation Question.

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Transmission Seal Installation Question.
    Posted: 06-June-2014 at 11:56AM
 
I am going to help a friend of mine replace a shifter shaft seal on his ford C6 transmission. The engine in his car is a ford 460 that is installed in a 1978 ford ranchero. The engine has a set of Hooker Headers (Part Number 6126) installed on it.
 
I believe that we can get the old/used seal out of the transmission case, but the possible problem is that there might not be enough room to install a new shifter shaft seal (with the headers in the way). Because we would have to use a seal installer tool (or a hammer and socket tool) to install the new shifter shaft seal back into the transmission case.
I have included pictures above and below to show what i am talking about. Another problem is that the car is parked about 100 miles from here, so we cannot take a better look right now to see how much room that there is to install the new seal. But maybe there is a member who has a 1972 through 1976 Torino or montego, or a 1972 through 1979 ranchero, or 1977 through 1979 cougar, LTD II or thunderbird, or 1974 through 1976 cougar or elite, with a 429 or 460 engine and a C6 transmission with hooker 6126 headers installed, that can take a look at theirs and tell me.
 


Edited by dave302 - 06-June-2014 at 12:17PM
Back to Top
ramair351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-May-2006
Location: west michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 1561
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramair351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-June-2014 at 12:58PM
Pretty sure you have to take that whole shaft out to change the seal, which requires removal of the trans pan. Once that's out of the way the seal changes easily,
-Pete
1972 montego GT
1970 Torino cobra SCJ
1970 mustang mach 1
1965 Falcon futura



Back to Top
Regul8r View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 26-December-2007
Location: Sarasota FL
Status: Offline
Points: 6624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-June-2014 at 1:05PM
Pete, I believe you are correct.
The seal is in the transmission and then the shaft goes in.
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-June-2014 at 1:48PM
it looks to be the same type set up as a c-4 fmx or aod the shaft goes in through the seal and has a nut on the inside end of the shaft accessible from the inside with the pan off. as far as room to swing a hammer to drive the seal in, i'm thinking with the shaft out-- a long 5/16" or 3/8" bolt and nut with washers to" draw " the seal into placeLamp
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-June-2014 at 2:03PM
Thank You for the answers, i appreciate it. I could not find any pictures of a 1972 through 1976 ford intermediate (Torino or ranchero) car with a 429/460 engine with a C6 transmission and hooker 6126 headers installed. But i have included a couple of pictures below of a 1978 Lincoln mark 5 with a 460 engine and hooker 6126 headers installed (which is the same exact engine/transmission/ exhaust header combination). As you can see it is a tight fit between the headers and transmission seal location.
 
Originally posted by ramair351 ramair351 wrote:

Pretty sure you have to take the whole shaft out to change the seal, which requires removal of the trans pan, once that is out of the way the seal changes easy.
 
I know that ramair351 had said that it is possible to change the transmission seal while the engine, transmission and headers are in the car (Thank You), it still looks like a tight fit. The car is 100 miles from here, so i just want to find out what special tools might be needed before we go there to change the seal.
 
 


Edited by dave302 - 06-June-2014 at 2:13PM
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-June-2014 at 2:07PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

As far as room to swing a hammer to drive the seal in, i'm thinking with the shaft out-- a long 5/16" or 3/8" bolt and nut with washers to" draw " the seal into placeLamp
 
Thank You, John. That is a good idea.
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-June-2014 at 2:15PM
     IF...   you have room to slide the shaft out, then the bolt thing should work for you. you may have to unbolt that header to move it enough for room to work
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-June-2014 at 2:17PM
Thank You.
Back to Top
GranTorinoSport View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Admin of "The Org"

Joined: 20-May-2003
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 2287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 5:53AM
I'll put my two cents in here.

I was going to do this very task myself several months back. I procured the parts (ebay, RockAuto & aquartlow) and then dropped the transmission pan.

I am not a great mechanic. I don't claim to have magical superpowers that will allow me to get things into tight places, etc. The nut that holds the shift shaft into the transmission is right next to the valve body and is tough to get to. I did not say impossible - I suspect some of our more seasoned mechanics here could do it, but not do-able for me.

On a brand new transmission I was not inclined to drop the valve body and start tearing other things out. Further, as Dave302 mentions, getting the seal out and in would be challenging. Again, not impossible, as californiajohnny has already made a valid suggestion to, but very challenging. Again, speaking from my own personal level of skill I would not attempt it.

Just for a bit of background of why I was at this juncture, my transmission came with a generic shift shaft out of it, hence I desired to put the mid-size specific shaft with column-cable shift arm on.

What I ended up doing was getting the B&M arm for the generic shaft, along with a Lokar kick down kit. Those two items fit on the generic output shaft without me needing to replace the shaft. Just that activity was a pain with the 6126's installed. Not impossible, and obviously within my skill level since it is done, but not easy either.

If you need to replace the seal because it is leaking, then I would certainly try installing it with everything in place. However, I would also be prepared for the possible need to pull the engine up to get the header out, or some other large scale action that will buy you the space you need. Heck, you could even take the transmission out as another alternative.

Hope that helps. Bottom line: 6126's make this a miserable job. But stock exhaust might even get in the way on this one.
Scott Eklund

Webmaster
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2271
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 7:19AM
Good info here! Also make absolutely sure that the main linkage seal IS leaking before any removal of valvebody or trans from vehicle and not just the small O-ring for sealing the trans kickdown lever, it will save a few headaches. I had a leak/weeping issue in the area you are describing, found it was coming from the KD lever. I removed the nut holding the lever in place, installed an appropriate sized O-ring, then installed a stainless flat washer and nylon lock nut to fimly attach the KD lever but not too tight to restrict and/or delay the lever's motion/actuation. Hope this helps, Todd
 
BTW, in the pics posted here by Dave302:
 
BE THANKFUL, because there is ALOT more room between the DS header collector and trans pan in this pictured application than I have on my '79 Ranchero-460/C6 application(I actually had to remove the "bump out" in my C6's pan so the header collector gasket flange wouldn't hit it).
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
GranTorinoSport View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Admin of "The Org"

Joined: 20-May-2003
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 2287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 7:30AM
Off topic note, the vehicle pictured has the heavy duty support cross arms.
Scott Eklund

Webmaster
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 10:32AM
did you know there's more to sealing that linkage than just the seal in the trans case?
 
there's also an O-ring or 2 on the inner kickdown shaft inside the outer selector shaft
 
could be your leak is only the O-rings, or both the seal & the O-rings
 
stock exhaust wouldn't be a problem, he'd bitch you up one side & down the other for having headers
 
100 miles from the tool box... I wouldn't wanna make too many trips 


Edited by Rockatansky - 18-August-2014 at 5:39PM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2014 at 6:17PM
Thank You for all of the answers, we appreciate it.
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 12:13PM
Thank you for the answers. My friend had already had a new o-ring installed inside the kickdown lever shaft and it is still leaking...
The only possible problem with the o-ring (that was installed) is that: My friend had brought two o-rings with him to the repair shop. One o-ring was the exact o-ring with the correct part number. This o-ring is called a square sided o-ring, it looks exactly like the pictures below.
 
 
But unfortunately, the repair man at the repair shop insisted that he would only install the completely round sided o-ring. The round sided o-ring that was installed, is the exact same size height, width, thickness and length in all dimensions as the square sided o-ring with the correct part number for the kickdown lever shaft.
 
The kickdown lever o-ring does not seem to be leaking any more, (I am almost 100% positive that the leak is coming from the shifter shaft seal), but do you think that the square sided o-ring should have been installed, instead of the round sided o-ring? What are other people using on their kickdown levers?
Below is a picture of a round sided o-ring.
Thank you for any answers that you can give to us.
 
 


Edited by dave302 - 19-August-2014 at 12:17PM
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2271
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 12:19PM
I would have to say, "If it ain't leaking, leave it alone". I used a regular O-ring to solve my leak, it has been about 18 months, no leak since installing it. I hope and/or believe your results will be similar. Good luck, Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 12:27PM
Thank You for the answers.
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2271
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 12:35PM
Dave302,
 I apologize for my reply to come out so blunt sounding, really didn't intend for it to be like that Embarrassed. Once again, I hope your results are positive with no more leaks. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2014 at 1:16PM
To Aquartlow,
It is okay, there is no need to apologize Smile. You had given an excellent answer when you had said that you had used a completely round sided o-ring on your kickdown lever shaft, and you have not had any leaks in the past 18 months. You did not sound blunt to me at all. That is a perfect answer. Thank you for the answers.
 
Also, I had forgot to mention in my last post, that the threaded kickdown rod that is coming out of the transmission case (the threaded rod that the kickdown lever is installed on), is no longer wet and seeping with transmission fluid anymore, since the new o-ring has been installed on it.
 
Which would lead me to believe that it is defineteley the shifter shaft seal that is leaking. Because the drips of transmission fluid are coming from directly under the shifter shaft seal.


Edited by dave302 - 19-August-2014 at 1:41PM
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.