Headers for 400 or 351M |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5854 |
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Posted: 05-October-2014 at 4:31AM |
Has anyone on here with a 400 or 351M run headers on their car? The only long tube ones sold are the very expensive Hooker Super Competition Headers 6125HKR. I know Sanderson makes a bunch of shorties for 351C 2V or 4V heads. I am wondering if anyone has tried them in a Torino to see if they actually fit? They list FC3 for Ford pickups and FC4s for Mustangs. They do show the dimensions of the headers on the page, but I don't have a set of manifolds to see how they compare. http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sanderson-FC3-Ford-Cleveland-Header-Set-for-1972-Up-Ford-F100-Pickups.html http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sanderson-FC4-Ford-Cleveland-Header-Set-for-1969-73-Ford-Mustang.html Does anyone have any other suggestions? |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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probably the mustang ones, may be your best bet.
i went with jba's mustang headers for my 351W in my 74 worked pretty well, but i didn't see any 351c or m listed on their site just now |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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looks like the only difference between the sets is the exit angle on the driver side
I'd just look at the pics & eyeball the engine compartment around the rear two cylinder area where the down dump exit is, & decide which angle you like better i'll be heading out by mine in a bit i'll take a peek & see what I think
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72 GT Ute
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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The 351M and 400 are tall-deck 351C 2V engines (more or less). If you use 351C 2V headers, the taller deck (about 1 inch) will move the exhaust outlet up/out about 3/4 of an inch or so. This MAY affect clearance on the steering box.
Look at the bubba's m-block pages on this site. IDK if he covered headers, but everything on there is pretty thorough.
Edited by Big Bird - 05-October-2014 at 9:14AM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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I took a look & measured a little. I have a Ford manual steering gear in mine & I like about 3 1/2" squared off the head to the box, leaving a decent amount of clearance. I'm not sure if the manual box is wider than a PS box or which PS box offers more clearance?
both FC3 & FC4 show 3 3/4" wide, could be they 'went big' on purpose the center link is just about centered under the rear most exhaust port (#8) and right at 13 1/2" from the top of the flange surface. FC3 would be aiming straight at the steering linkages while FC4 would be angling to dump behind them I can go back out & take more measurements with pics if needed but remember I have the manual steering gear, maybe someone else has the same PS box that you have and can check it out also?
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72 GT Ute
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5854 |
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Thanks for the measurements Rockastansky. My car is P/S, but I have a Saginaw box which is a bit smaller than the Ford build P/S boxes. From what you are saying, maybe the FC4's would be a better choice. I just wish I knew someone who tried them out.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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right, i'd say the mustang one's because of the steering box, remember the trucks have twin i-beam suspension therefor a wider cross member, the big mustangs are closer to our car's frame, box location, etc. if you get them and don't modify or ding them up any, you should be able to return them if they're not going to work!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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72 GT Ute
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5854 |
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I found this video:
This guy said he ran the Mustang headers and they fit no prob. I would think the fullsize chassis would be pretty close to the Torino? My only issue with returns, is the shipping to Canada sucks. To have to ship it back afterwards, would suck even more! So I want to make sure before I order them.
Edited by 72FordGTS - 06-October-2014 at 3:13PM |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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jadeezra
Member Joined: 15-February-2013 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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So mustang 2v what about 4v?
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2767 |
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For the 400 and 351M they have to be 2V headers, 4V's will not fit(seal). It sounds like some people had good luck with 351C-2V headers made for a Mustang, and they are a close fit for the 400 /351M. I'm going to need 69/70 Boss 302 headers for my Ranchero. |
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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OleDutchD
Member Joined: 02-August-2003 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Talk to Stan Johnson @ FPA. Some of his stuff will work with unlisted applications. Running '67-'68 Mustang 351W/C6 engine swap headers in our '72 Torino. Perfect fit with no complications. Stan is pretty knowledgeable of Ford engine bay architecture. Worth a call....
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Just an analog guy stuck in a digital world!
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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when y'all figure it out, let me know! lol
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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4V headers will seal on 2V heads with some plates like these. to make them I traced around the bolt holes & ports of the 2V gasket, then oriented correctly i aligned the bolt holes & traced the outside of the 4V gasket... 16ga galvanized
Price motorsports lists them made of Copper, may be available through www.tmeyerinc.com |
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72 GT Ute
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2767 |
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Thanks, those sources of knowledge are really valuable. |
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2767 |
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LOL, cheater. Those weren't around back in the day, port plates were the bomb back then. BTW, will 351C-2V headers work at all for the 1" taller deck block 400? I have a set I got ages ago, I keep forgetting what spare parts I have. |
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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I recall reading, rule of thumb is the 400 /M block will raise the 351C headers 3/4" up closer to the floor pans / crossmember humps depends upon the specific headers if they hang low enough on a 351C, I guess some do but my Hokker Super-Comps were always pretty snug in the crossmember humps. I haven't spent much quality time with my new Casler (30yrs old NOS) pipes but I don't recall them hangin low either hey, for the prices they're askin I'd miter the collector or whatever if it wasn't too big a deal if you were to cut it once on a slight angle & rotate the piece 180* it'll double the cut angle |
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72 GT Ute
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jadeezra
Member Joined: 15-February-2013 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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Tim Meyers says the Sanderson shorties do fit and if 2v you need the flange they supply
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5854 |
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So Tim confirmed the FC4's will fit the 1972-76 Torinos?
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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jadeezra
Member Joined: 15-February-2013 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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Yeah when I get home tonight I will link his post where he directly states they will work.
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jadeezra
Member Joined: 15-February-2013 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1349187227/2/Ford+400+Build+-+Newbie+advice+needed
2nd page he gives alot of useful info especially on the headers. Good job your guess Appears correct |
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The Torino Kid
Senior Member Joined: 23-November-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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the 73 i recently bought, came with a 351M and hookers, the number#8 primary is right against the steering box. the pass side looks to be alright on fitment.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport CJ 351
'Q' code 63R body |
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mtburger
Senior Member Joined: 24-November-2008 Location: Abington, MA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Hey Guys.
I am late to this conversation, but I have a new set of what I believe are Black Jack headers for a 351m 400 in a 77-79 Thunderbird, Cougar or LTD II. I got these so many years ago, I don't remember when, from who, or how I acquired them, but they are a dead nutz copy of the Black Jack 351c 4V cheapo Mustang headers from the mid late seventies (I have had 3-4 sets of these over the years) but are about 1 inch longer than the 351c 4V units. They had started to rust through the white pain from sitting so long, so I blasted them last summer and hung them on the wall to be used for a 400 project I have been collecting parts for. Last night, I hung the passenger side headers from each set, with the bottom side of the flange set on my bench top to see the difference in height or depth compared to each other. The reason I did this, is that I was thinking I would try to use them on my new Montego I want to put headers on, but after looking at them beside the correct header, I feel they would be too low to use on the street and need the ones for the shorter deck 351c. So I do not want to sell these, but I can take some pictures of them side by side, and I have a catalog rack filled from my days working at Racer's Equipment Warehouse, that has a ton of the old parts books from the manufactures and I may be able to dig up the old part numbers for the Thunderbird, Cougar 351m 400 application. It might make it easier to track down if you know the part number and that they did once exist. Let me know, Mike H. |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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if you read my Lola Mae project you get some pics of the Windsor stuff.
I say that because those Windsor headers were for a Mustang and you can see why they DID NOT work on my Torino. Just pics for thoughts and to watch out. |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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a different mfg'r that uses different tube bends may cross applications successfully where others don't
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72 GT Ute
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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EXACTLY! that is why I mentioned it to look at how they are run. The hedmans sweep angle is so severe they almost hit the plug wires. |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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