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Headers for 400 or 351M

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Headers for 400 or 351M
    Posted: 05-October-2014 at 4:31AM

Has anyone on here with a 400 or 351M run headers on their car?  The only long tube ones sold are the very expensive Hooker Super Competition Headers 6125HKR.  I know Sanderson makes a bunch of shorties for 351C 2V or 4V heads.  I am wondering if anyone has tried them in a Torino to see if they actually fit?  They list FC3 for Ford pickups and FC4s for Mustangs.  They do show the dimensions of the headers on the page, but I don't have a set of manifolds to see how they compare.

 
http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sanderson-FC4-Ford-Cleveland-Header-Set-for-1969-73-Ford-Mustang.html
 

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2014 at 7:20AM
probably the mustang ones, may be your best bet.
i went with jba's mustang headers for my 351W in my 74 worked pretty well, but i didn't see any 351c or m listed on their site just nowCry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2014 at 7:53AM
looks like the only difference between the sets is the exit angle on the driver side
 
I'd just look at the pics & eyeball the engine compartment around the rear two cylinder area where the down dump exit is, & decide which angle you like better
 
i'll be heading out by mine in a bit i'll take a peek & see what I think Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2014 at 9:13AM
The 351M and 400 are tall-deck 351C 2V engines (more or less). If you use 351C 2V headers, the taller deck (about 1 inch) will move the exhaust outlet up/out about 3/4 of an inch or so. This MAY affect clearance on the steering box.
Look at the bubba's m-block pages on this site. IDK if he covered headers, but everything on there is pretty thorough.


Edited by Big Bird - 05-October-2014 at 9:14AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2014 at 10:49AM
I took a look & measured a little. I have a Ford manual steering gear in mine & I like about 3 1/2" squared off the head to the box, leaving a decent amount of clearance. I'm not sure if the manual box is wider than a PS box or which PS box offers more clearance?
both FC3 & FC4 show 3 3/4" wide, could be they 'went big' on purpose
 
the center link is just about centered under the rear most exhaust port (#8) and right at 13 1/2" from the top of the flange surface. FC3 would be aiming straight at the steering linkages while FC4 would be angling to dump behind them
 
I can go back out & take more measurements with pics if needed but remember I have the manual steering gear, maybe someone else has the same PS box that you have and can check it out also?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2014 at 2:53PM
Thanks for the measurements Rockastansky.  My car is P/S, but I have a Saginaw box which is a bit smaller than the Ford build P/S boxes.  From what you are saying, maybe the FC4's would be a better choice.  I just wish I knew someone who tried them out.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-October-2014 at 5:12PM
right, i'd say the mustang one's because of the steering box, remember the trucks have twin i-beam suspension therefor a wider cross member, the  big mustangs are closer to our car's frame, box location, etc. if you get them and don't modify or ding them up any, you should be able to return them if they're not going to work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2014 at 6:03AM
this is the closest I came to finding something,
 
turns out the OP there is... you 
 
have you had a chance to poke a tape measure around in there & decide which Left side you think will fit / better?
 


Edited by Rockatansky - 06-October-2014 at 6:07AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2014 at 3:12PM
I found this video:
 
 
This  guy said he ran the Mustang headers and they fit no prob.  I would think the fullsize chassis would be pretty close to the Torino?
 
My only issue with returns, is the shipping to Canada sucks.  To have to ship it back afterwards, would suck even more!  So I want to make sure before I order them.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 06-October-2014 at 3:13PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jadeezra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2015 at 6:27AM
So mustang 2v what about 4v?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2015 at 8:32AM
Originally posted by jadeezra jadeezra wrote:

So mustang 2v what about 4v?


For the 400 and 351M they have to be 2V headers, 4V's will not fit(seal).

It sounds like some people had good luck with 351C-2V headers made for a Mustang, and they are a close fit for the 400 /351M.

I'm going to need 69/70 Boss 302 headers for my Ranchero.Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OleDutchD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2015 at 11:48AM
Talk to Stan Johnson @ FPA. Some of his stuff will work with unlisted applications. Running '67-'68 Mustang 351W/C6 engine swap headers in our '72 Torino. Perfect fit with no complications. Stan is pretty knowledgeable of Ford engine bay architecture. Worth a call....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2015 at 12:46PM
when y'all figure it out, let me know! lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2015 at 12:48PM
4V headers will seal on 2V heads with some plates like these. to make them I traced around the bolt holes & ports of the 2V gasket, then oriented correctly i aligned the bolt holes & traced the outside of the 4V gasket... 16ga galvanized
 
Price motorsports lists them made of Copper, may be available through www.tmeyerinc.com
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2015 at 2:37PM
Originally posted by OleDutchD OleDutchD wrote:

Talk to Stan Johnson @ FPA. Some of his stuff will work with unlisted applications. Running '67-'68 Mustang 351W/C6 engine swap headers in our '72 Torino. Perfect fit with no complications. Stan is pretty knowledgeable of Ford engine bay architecture. Worth a call....


Thanks, those sources of knowledge are really valuable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2015 at 2:39PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

4V headers will seal on 2V heads with some plates like these. to make them I traced around the bolt holes & ports of the 2V gasket, then oriented correctly i aligned the bolt holes & traced the outside of the 4V gasket... 16ga galvanized
 
Price motorsports lists them made of Copper, may be available through www.tmeyerinc.com
 


LOL, cheater. Those weren't around back in the day, port plates were the bomb back then.

BTW, will 351C-2V headers work at all for the 1" taller deck block 400? I have a set I got ages ago, I keep forgetting what spare parts I have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-January-2015 at 11:57AM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

BTW, will 351C-2V headers work at all for the 1" taller deck block 400? I have a set I got ages ago, I keep forgetting what spare parts I have.
 
I recall reading, rule of thumb is the 400 /M block will raise the 351C headers 3/4" up closer to the floor pans / crossmember humps
 
depends upon the specific headers if they hang low enough on a 351C, I guess some do but my Hokker Super-Comps were always pretty snug in the crossmember humps. I haven't spent much quality time with my new Casler (30yrs old NOS) pipes but I don't recall them hangin low either
 
hey, for the prices they're askin I'd miter the collector or whatever if it wasn't too big a deal
 
if you were to cut it once on a slight angle & rotate the piece 180* it'll double the cut angle
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jadeezra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-February-2015 at 3:19AM
Tim Meyers says the Sanderson shorties do fit and if 2v you need the flange they supply
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-February-2015 at 5:26AM
Originally posted by jadeezra jadeezra wrote:

Tim Meyers says the Sanderson shorties do fit and if 2v you need the flange they supply
 
So Tim confirmed the FC4's will fit the 1972-76 Torinos? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jadeezra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-February-2015 at 5:36AM
Yeah when I get home tonight I will link his post where he directly states they will work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jadeezra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-February-2015 at 5:40AM
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1349187227/2/Ford+400+Build+-+Newbie+advice+needed

2nd page he gives alot of useful info especially on the headers. Good job your guess Appears correct
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Torino Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-January-2016 at 3:58AM
the 73 i recently bought, came with a 351M and hookers, the number#8 primary is right against the steering box. the pass side looks to be alright on fitment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-January-2016 at 8:34AM
Hey Guys.

I am late to this conversation, but I have a new set of what I believe are Black Jack headers for a 351m 400 in a 77-79 Thunderbird, Cougar or LTD II.

I got these so many years ago, I don't remember when, from who, or how I acquired them, but they are a dead nutz copy of the Black Jack 351c 4V cheapo Mustang headers from the mid late seventies (I have had 3-4 sets of these over the years) but are about 1 inch longer than the 351c 4V units.

They had started to rust through the white pain from sitting so long, so I blasted them last summer and hung them on the wall to be used for a 400 project I have been collecting parts for.

Last night, I hung the passenger side headers from each set, with the bottom side of the flange set on my bench top to see the difference in height or depth compared to each other.

The reason I did this, is that I was thinking I would try to use them on my new Montego I want to put headers on, but after looking at them beside the correct header, I feel they would be too low to use on the street and need the ones for the shorter deck 351c.

So I do not want to sell these, but I can take some pictures of them side by side, and I have a catalog rack filled from my days working at Racer's Equipment Warehouse, that has a ton of the old parts books from the manufactures and I may be able to dig up the old part numbers for the Thunderbird, Cougar 351m 400 application. It might make it easier to track down if you know the part number and that they did once exist.

Let me know, Mike H.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-January-2016 at 2:23PM
if you read my Lola Mae project you get some pics of the Windsor stuff.
I say that because those Windsor headers were for a Mustang and you can see why they DID NOT work on my Torino.
 
Just pics for thoughts and to watch out.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-January-2016 at 2:55PM
a different mfg'r that uses different tube bends may cross applications successfully where others don't
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-January-2016 at 2:59PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

a different mfg'r that uses different tube bends may cross applications successfully where others don't
 
 
 
EXACTLY! that is why I mentioned it to look at how they are run.
The hedmans sweep angle is so severe they almost hit the plug wires.
 
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