The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Powertrain Specific Forum > Big Block Engine Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Ignition Coil Selection.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Ignition Coil Selection.

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ignition Coil Selection.
    Posted: 22-November-2014 at 10:10AM

I have a friend who has a 1973 ford ranchero, the previous owner of the ranchero had a 1976 ford 460 engine installed in it. The engine has what i believe to be a 1973 ford 429 distributor installed in it. The distributor has only a single vacuum advance diaphram (not a dual vacuum advance/retard diaphram) installed on it.

Recently he had a mallory unilite 502 breakerless electronic conversion kit installed inside of the distributor, so there are no more contact points installed in it. He is still using the 1973 original equipment type of ignition coil. The spark plug gap for the 1976 ford 460 engine is specified to be 0.042" to 0.046" in the ford repair manuals. The spark plug gap for the 1973 ford 429 engine is specified to be 0.032"to 0.036" in the ford repair manuals.


He currently has his spark plugs gapped at 0.042" to 0.046", but someone had told him that the 0.042" to 0.046" spark plug gap might be too large for the 1973 ignition coil and the coil might get alot warmer/hotter than if the spark plug gap was set from 0.042" to 0.046", is this true?


The ford motor company had switched to a different ignition coil in 1974 when they had switched from contact points to electronic ignitions on many of their cars and trucks. This new 1974 ignition coil had slightly less resistance and a slightly higher inductance rate than the 1973 and earlier/older ignition coils. The 1974 and newer coils probably have a slightly higher voltage output also.


He was told by someone that the 1976 original equipment ford motorcraft four barrel carburetor that he has on his engine, was designed to run a little bit leaner (with all of the newer emissions equipment that was being installed on these engines at the ford factories at that time) than the 1973 and earlier ford carburetors. So it would be better if he had gapped his spark plugs from 0.042" to 0.046" instead of 0.032" to 0.036" like the 1973 and earlier engines.


So here are my questions: Should he switch to a 1974-newer style coil? Or should he switch to a higher voltage coil with a higher inductance rate and less resistance?

Someone had recommended an Accel 8140 coil to him. This accel coil has 42,000 volts maximum output and it has less resistance and more inductance than the original 1973 ford type coil. I will post the specifications for this coil below.
Primary Resistance: 1.400 ohms
Maximum Voltage: 42,000 V
Turns Ratio: 94:1
Secondary Resistance: 9.2K ohms.

Another person had recommended a mallory 29219 coil, I will post the specifications for this coil below.
Primary Resistance: 1.400 ohms
Maximum Voltage: 58,000 V
Turns Ratio: 112:1
Secondary Resistance: 10.00K ohms
Inductance: 6.6 mH
Peak Current: 180 mA
Spark Duration: 300 uS

A third person had recommended a mallory 29216 coil, I will post the specifications for this coil below.
Primary Resistance: 0.700 ohms
Maximum Voltage: 51,000 V
Turns Ratio: 99:1
Secondary Resistance: 8.9K ohms
Inductance: 6.6 mH
Peak Current: 180 mA
Spark Duration: 400 uS

There was also someone who had recommended an original equipment type replacement coil. I will post the specifications for the 1973 original equipment replacement ford coil below.

Inductance (mH): 6.6
Minimum Primary Resistance Range: 1.50 Ohms
Minimum Secondary Resistance Range: 11,000 Ohms.
I was told that the maximum output voltage of these factory original equipment type coils is about 20,000 volts. Is this true? Is more voltage really necessary?
 
Next I will post the specifications for another 1973 original equipment replacement ford coil below. This next coil is from the same company as the coil listed above, but it is a better quality and it costs a few dollars more.
Inductance (mH): 6.6
Minimum Primary Resistance Range: 1.50 Ohms
Minimum Secondary Resistance Range: 10,000 Ohms
 
Next I will post the specifications for a 1974 through 1978 original equipment replacement ford coil below.
Inductance (mH): 6.2
Minimum Primary Resistance Range: 1.3 Ohms
Minimum Secondary Resistance Range: 9,000 Ohms
 
I was told that the maximum output voltage for these original equipment 1974-1978 replacement coils is about 20,000 to 23,000 volts. Is this true? Is more voltage really necessary? If it is necessary, how is it necessary?
Next I will post the specifications for another 1974 through 1978 original equipment replacement ford coil below. This next coil is from the same company as the coil listed above, but it is a better quality and it costs a few dollars more.
 
Inductance (mH): 7.6
Minimum Primary Resistance Range: 1.3 Ohms
Minimum Secondary Resistance Range: 8,000 - 10,000 Ohms
 
My friend only uses this car as a daily driver sometimes and he does not use this car for any type of racing or high performance driving. Sometimes he has to rev his engine up to 3400 to 4000 RPM's when he is entering a onto a highway, but that is the only time that he revs the engine that high. So will a higher voltage/lower resistance/higher induction coil really be necessary?
 
Also, what do you think that he should set/adjust his spark plug gaps to?
 
I can tell you more about his engine so it will be easier for you to give answers to me: His engine has an original equipment type (stock) camshaft installed in it. His engine does not have any high performance/racing parts installed on it, he had mentioned that he is probably going to keep it that way.
 
He sometimes has to park his car in a large warehouse-garage where their are other people working, so he needs good/low exhaust emissions out of his exhaust tailpipe.
 
Also, If any of you know of anyone who has greatly increased the Size and CFM's of their carburetors (for extra fuel intake), due to the fact that they were adding on other high performance parts to their engine and they still have good/low exhaust emissions out of their exhaust tailpipe, (possibly due to the fact that they had added a higher voltage/lower resistance/higher inductance ignition coil), I would really like to hear your stories.
 
Thank you for any answers that you can give to us.


Edited by dave302 - 23-November-2014 at 9:39AM
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 12:58PM
I'd leave the Air Fuel Ratio out of the formula on this one
spark plugs are designed for the gap they'll be set at, so the ground strap electrode remains perpendicular to the center electrode through the service life of the spark plug. if an incorrect plug is gapped to cause the ground electrode to angle slightly to the center electrode, as the plug wears(electrode deterioration) the gap will change 
 
the breaker point eliminator module is definitely a good thing, and probably engineered to use the pre-1975 points type coil? have you tried hitting up Mallory for a suggestion on what coil to use for the 1976 plugs & gap?
 
then again it's possible that the 1973 plugs & gap will be the best overall for the situation. with the difference between the .036" max & the .042" min being quite small, I think I'd revert back to the 1973 plugs & run them @ .035" ~ish
 
those small differences in Ohms, Impedance, Reluctance, Resistance & whatever else they can come up with can make a big difference, the wrong coil may start & idle OK but won't run down the road worth a crap
 
I'd see what Mallory thinks might work best https://prestolite.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 1:39PM
generally from my knowledge most stock coils were around 30,000 volts, those aftermarket chrome coils were like 40,000 volts, and the hei and the big yellow accel coils were 60,000 volts. the ford coils were shorter so they may in fact be less voltage?
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 1:42PM

Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

I'd see what Mallory thinks might work best https://prestolite.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new


Thank you for the answers, i appreciate it. The instructions on the mallory electronic ignition conversion sheet says that it can be used with the stock original coil, but for optimum performance they recommend their promaster coils with the part numbers: 29440, 29625 and 29126.

 

For the spark plug gaps they say to use the engine manufacturers recommended specification gap.

But for racing applications they say to start with the engine manufacturers specification gap and then experiment with and closely monitor various gaps until maximum performance is achieved.

 

The one possible problem with this is that these instructions are usually for the 1973 and older engines that had originally came from the factory with contact points in the distributor. My friends engine is a 1976 engine, with a 1973 (small distributor cap) distributor installed on it.



Edited by dave302 - 22-November-2014 at 2:08PM
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 2:07PM
it's a monster. I didn't have much trouble finding a place for it to fit but on a full dress big block?
.
 
29440 IIRC works with points also
 
29625... 67000v, male HEI terminal and it's bigger than mine
 
29126... 51,000v, female socket correct for the 1973-76 Ford coil wire
first application under Ford is for a 1963 390 so it works with points, and it'll fit in the stock coil bracket Big smile


Edited by Rockatansky - 22-November-2014 at 2:21PM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 2:24PM
Thank you for the answers, i appreciate it. So you are saying that you would definetly recommend the mallory 29216 coil, instead of any other coil for this engine that we are talking about above?
 
Would there be a big improvement over the stock 1973 original equipment coil that is on this engine now? Would this be much better than the accel 8140 coil which is rated at 42,000 volts maximum output?
 
Is it because the mallory 29126 has 9,000 more volts of maximum output?


Edited by dave302 - 22-November-2014 at 2:31PM
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 2:31PM
I wouldn't be interested in the Big Box coil, I'd look for something that matches very closely to the original
 
if Mallory swears up & down that the 29216 is compatible with their trigger module it would be on my short list
 
and @ 50k+ volts I think it'd fire the .045" gap to use the 1976 plugs for better emissions
 
FWIW I was just searching around a little & found a post that states the resistance for a point fired Q-code was 1.47
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 2:33PM
Thank you for the information, I appreciate it.
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 2:39PM
Originally posted by dave302 dave302 wrote:

Would there be a big improvement over the stock 1973 original equipment coil that is on this engine now? Would this be much better than the accel 8140 coil which is rated at 42,000 volts maximum output?
 
Is it because the mallory 29126 has 9,000 more volts of maximum output?
 
I'd go along with all that. factor in cost, availability, end goal (desired plug gap) ...
 
i'll admit that I'm not so much an ignition coil scientist, that's why I defaulted to Mallory tech recommendation since it's their trigger module in there. with all the late model re-inventing of the ignition coil for decades now, it's easy to get something incompatible
 
HEI, TFI, wasted spark, capacitive discharge jeez just light my plugs already! ya know what I mean LOL
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 2:53PM
Thank you for the answers, I appreciate it.
 
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

i'll admit that I'm not so much an ignition coil scientist
I am not either, that is the reason that i am asking these questions and I appreciate all of your answers. Have you ever heard of any possible negative engine side effects or possible problems that could have possibly resulted from increasing the voltage of the ignition coil from 30,000 volts (like an original equipment type coil) to 51,000 volts (like an aftermarket coil) on a stock/non-modified engine?
 
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

generally from my knowledge most stock coils were around 30,000 volts
 Thank you for the answers, I appreciate it.


Edited by dave302 - 22-November-2014 at 3:04PM
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 3:03PM
coil output volts shouldn't have any negative effect
 
increasing should only make it run smoother & cleaner
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 3:12PM
Thank you for the answers, I appreciate it. I have always wondered why the ford motor company had never offered a performance ignition coil (even as an option) on there 1972 through 1976 engines?
They all seemed to have the same 30,000 volt maximum output voltage coil. Was there something that they did not know back then? Or maybe there was some other possible reason?

Edited by dave302 - 22-November-2014 at 3:29PM
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 4:11PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

coil output volts shouldn't have any negative effect
 
increasing should only make it run smoother & cleaner
X2 true!   and i'd go with some good quality wires (low resistance) i prefer mallory then accel copper core 8mm custom cut and crimp yourself to length
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2014 at 4:17PM
Thank you for the answers, I appreciate it. There is also the mallory part number: 29219 58,000 volt coil that someone else had recommended. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-29219
Would you think that this part number 29219 58,000 volt mallory coil would be better than the mallory 51,000 volt coil? If it is better, is it because of the lower resistance and higher output voltage?

Edited by dave302 - 22-November-2014 at 4:21PM
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-November-2014 at 3:06AM
29219 looks to have an internal resistor by the Notes in the description, something I forgot to mention up above
.
our Fords have a resistor wire built into the harness unless it's been removed, which constitutes an external resistor in my book
 
~I~ would make another call to Mallory & confirm that the final choice is compatible with both the car & the external resistor, Ford resistor wire to be specific
 
they all look pretty much the same but they're different
 
all else being equal, output will vary depending upon input volts and resistance will affect that


Edited by Rockatansky - 23-November-2014 at 3:08AM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
Regul8r View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 26-December-2007
Location: Sarasota FL
Status: Offline
Points: 6624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-November-2014 at 5:55AM
Dave without reading this whole thread just remember the Ballast and non ballast stuff talked about in the other thread. Ensure you don't mix and match and you have the proper voltage feed.
 
 
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired
Back to Top
dave302 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 08-October-2009
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 3171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-November-2014 at 9:59AM
Thank you for the answers, I appreciate it.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.