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351C - Losing Coolant but no leak?!?! |
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damienewyorker 
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 Topic: 351C - Losing Coolant but no leak?!?!Posted: 14-February-2015 at 2:37PM |
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I just picked up a great 73 Gran Torino Wagon a few months back with only 60K original miles. It has new plugs, wires and a Pertronix installed.
Runs smooth but just realized that it's losing a lot of coolant. There are visible leaks. When topped off, she runs very cool (never goes over the mid point on the gauge). Topped it off less than 500 miles ago then realized it was 3 gallons down. Live in Los Angeles so it's hot here all year long but again, when I drive it, it never gets hot. Thoughts anyone? |
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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Big Bird
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Posted: 14-February-2015 at 3:00PM |
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What does your oil look like? If it looks milky, the coolant is getting into the crankcase.
Do you have an overflow tank?
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 14-February-2015 at 3:30PM |
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title says no leaks text says visible leaks... ?
title says 351C sig line says 351W... ? . check the spark plugs for a clean like brand new plug, maybe more than one?if you have that kind of coolant volume leaking internally into a cylinder you're risking hydraulic lock which could possibly break the crank, bend a rod or bust out a cylinder wall. if you find clean spark plugs, don't tighten the rad cap all the way leave it at the first click so it doesn't build pressure & fill a cylinder with coolant losing 3 gallons that fast you'd think it wouldn't be much of a mystery just because, get a new radiator cap sooner rather than later. if you don't find any other problem it's possible that the coolant is getting steamed out the cap Edited by Rockatansky - 14-February-2015 at 3:31PM |
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72 GT Ute
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 14-February-2015 at 4:15PM |
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yes check the plugs, if one or two are perfectly clean (steam cleaned literately) then it's burning coolant, usually the exhaust will will be a big cloud of steam/fog out the back, but in ca. where it's hot out it may not be that noticeable! with it idling smell the exhaust--does it smell like coolant? open the radiator cap (without pressure first!) put your nose close to the radiator opening-- does it smell like exhaust/gas??
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Big Bird
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 3:26AM |
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If it's a Windsor, Check the intake bolt torque. They come loose. Factory had a re-torque schedule in 30K mile increments or so. Ruined a Crown Vic engine because of that.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:04AM |
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Oil looks fine. Yeah, I have an overflow tank but always just topped if off at the radiator cap.
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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Big Bird
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:08AM |
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See if your overflow tank holds water...
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:12AM |
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Good catch, you caught 2 typos! I meant no visable leaks and I just changed my sig to 351C
Good call on the cap, I'm gonna change that today and I gonna check the plugs too. I will update. Cooling issues affect all of us. It's always a big deal and no matter how tricked out we make our rides, it all gets shut down when we're on the side of the road steaming! I was just shocked that it was sooo low when I checked it without any visable leaks! Thanks, Man
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:15AM |
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Thanks John, great advice.
Gonna check the plugs today, change the cap and I'll do the smell tests! Keep you posted. I was just shocked that I was sooo low in coolant without putting that many miles on it and without any visible leaks.
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:24AM |
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You got it Randy, gonna give the overflow tank a once over.Never gave it no mind. I just got this Torino and trying to get a handle on how healthy this engine really is and problems it might have.
On the surface, it's strong as an ox, throttles real smooth, doesn't smoke, doesn't leak any oil but this coolant issue is a concern. Been driving Muscle cars for 20 years and never encountered this, go figure. |
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:29AM |
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a mechanics mirror you can get at Harbor Freight is great for inspecting the under & back sides of hose connections best time to check is after the car is warmed to operating temp & has been driven a bit so the system is under pressure there's something else to check, does the system hold pressure after the engine is hot / shut off? easy enough to check by squeezing the top hose also check the passenger side front seat floor under the carpet
Edited by Rockatansky - 15-February-2015 at 4:33AM |
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72 GT Ute
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Big Bird
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:36AM |
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Other option is, engine was REALLY low on coolant, and you didn't get all the air out, so it wasn't really full when you filled it up...
Are your heater hoses warming up when the car is running? (no water/coolant on the passenger floor?) No "maple syrup" smell in/around the car or the exhaust?
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:44AM |
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yup, an empty engine will suck down a full radiator when the thermostat opens, you could get another couple gallons in after that
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72 GT Ute
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:53AM |
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Randy, that's a great point. When a car is sooo new, you're not really sure what's going on yet. When I got this car, I was just hammered with work. Topped it off then hit the road to make meetings. Now, I'm finally giving this wagon attention especially after I noticed this issue.
No water in cabin, exhaust is fine, no MS or smell. Rockatansky - great call on the mirror. I'm gonna drive it today and check the pressure on the hoses. I was going to install a Prestone Flush kit and start at square 1 with the coolant. Install the t connector, flush it out, fill it up proper with new coolant, check for leaks, pressure on hoses, check the plugs, overflow tank, get a new cap then drive it a bit and go from there. It's 80 today so good day for coolant test! I will report back to all.....thanks! |
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:56AM |
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This engine is so smooth, runs so strong, does not smoke and I would hate to ruin it by overheating.
Also, maybe it has sh*tty oil in it. I need to get the right oil in this thing. Any recommendations? Should I go synthetic? 20-50 for sure.
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 4:56AM |
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I'd perform the leak check diagnosis & any repairs before you flush & fill with new coolant
or you'll pay twice
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72 GT Ute
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 5:01AM |
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you're right.
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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mcford
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Posted: 15-February-2015 at 8:55AM |
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10w30 non synthetic. with radiator cap off and the car running, warmed up, check the smell of the vapors coming from the opening in the radiator. it'll probably have an exhaust gas smell to it. if it does, head gasket or head.
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Mike
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fordpower
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Posted: 16-February-2015 at 2:42AM |
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according to ford water level should be 2 or 3 in below cap. If it a 351w could be intake man. Mine was, replaced two water pumps.Turned out it was leaking front and back.Back side of block was worn or cast so thin I built it up with liq.steel and filed it smooth.
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Regul8r
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Posted: 16-February-2015 at 6:05AM |
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intake gaskets and ANYWHERE else that holds antifreeze... THIN smear of Ultra blue PERIOD!!
I do it on the intake gaskets(BOTH head and intake sides), water pump, front cover to block, freeze plugs, any other intake cross over galleys, thermostat gaskets and screw in threaded coolant hose nipples... ZERO LEAKS EVER!!! I even spray the head gaskets with ULTRA COPPER... just that LITTLE bit of pliable/wet silicone will fill and seal ANY imperfections in the metal surfaces... ZERO LEAKS! |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 16-February-2015 at 1:52PM |
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351C is a 'dry intake', but the timing cover has it's quirks
FWIW no worries with any gaskets ATM if the oil is not a chocolate milkshake yes I consider it an art to seal a cooling system or any system on a car for that matter, I even wipe a thin schmear of sillycone on the inside of a hose before I slide it on
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damienewyorker
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Posted: 04-March-2015 at 4:14PM |
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Greetings all!
Great suggestions all around y'all!! Love this forum! Okay, Update on the mystery disappearing coolant: Changed the cap - l love that auto parts store now seem to stock the "stock looking" ones. I hate those "Stant" replacements just how they make the engine bay look. 13lbs version for sure. Replaced the overflow tank - Shouldn't this get pressurized when hot? Anyway, it has a sealed cap. No visible leaks detected with a mirror and no pooling after parking it but.... I do not have any pressure on the upper radiator hose after driving it for 30 minutes?!?!? AND...no exhaust smell in the radiator, the oil is not milky and no coolant smell in exhaust either, WTF. I have not dealt with the thermostat but thoughts on that? Thanks in advance |
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73 Gran Torino Wagon - 351C
68 Ranchero - 302W 72 F250 - 390W |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 04-March-2015 at 4:25PM |
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just an "off the wall" thought--- is coolant leaking in the heater core??
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 04-March-2015 at 4:26PM |
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no the overflow is not pressurized, but the Rad should be after 30 min's
possible you have a broken solder sweat joint near the top of the Rad, like the upper hose bung does the top hose get HOT or just a little warm? if the engine is not overheating the T-stat is either good or not installed 351C uses a specific T-stat, many / most parts stores will supply you the incorrect Windsor / chevy / generic style T-stat
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SininenIII
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Posted: 04-March-2015 at 8:31PM |
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Does your transmission use the same radiator, the lines going in and out the at the end of the radiator ? My friend´s ´79 T-bird had a leak in transmission cooling system inside the radiator, sucking coolant into the transmission, eventually causing a dead FMX.
Edited by SininenIII - 05-March-2015 at 2:29AM |
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Aatu
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IndyLTD I I
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Posted: 04-March-2015 at 10:43PM |
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Have you pressure tested the cooling system? AutoZone has a tool in their loaner tools for testing the cooling systems ability to hold pressure. I've used it many times to locate leaks I could not find with the naked eye. If it will build pressure, don't exceed the original caps pressure rating. I have seen people pump and pump until they created a leak that didn't exist before.
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ilyes
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Posted: 04-March-2015 at 11:49PM |
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There's a guy on ebay that sell the correct thermostat, look for a robertshaw 333-180 if I recall
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