The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > Tools & Shop Equipment
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Dial Indicators - how useful?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Dial Indicators - how useful?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
GranTorinoSport View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Admin of "The Org"

Joined: 20-May-2003
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 2287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dial Indicators - how useful?
    Posted: 20-May-2015 at 5:40AM
So as part of my brake repair work on my 66 Chrysler 300, I am replacing the rear wheel bearings. Unlike the Ford and GM family of cars, Chryslers have separately lubed rear wheel bearings (using bearing grease, separated from the axle lubricant by a seal in the tube). Furthermore, they require an adjustment of like 0.03" of end play on the RH side, and there is an adjustment "thing" which may or may not be serviceable on my axle.

Obviously the only legitimate way to measure the end play would be to get a dial indicator set. I'm ok with that, provided it has additional future use.

I never use the micrometers I have. I do use the digital calipers quite a bit though.

Torn on the dial indicator. Wanted to hear others opinions & uses for them.
Scott Eklund

Webmaster
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2015 at 7:03AM
  I have used my magnetic based dial indicator for checking rotor "run-out", setting backlash on rear axle gears, degreeing camshafts, checking crankshaft/camshaft thrust endplay, camshaft "events" and etc. Although not something that is used everyday, but in certain situations it is a very handy tool when accuracy is paramount.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2015 at 10:22AM
Unless you have another way to measure axle end play...   best to bite the bullet if you need it.
This is one of those places where tolerances are critical, and a new "correct" axle is about a zillion dollars if something goes wrong, (not to mention safety hazards of a failure while moving)
out of curiousity, do you have the studs, of does it still use bolts to hold on the rear wheel?
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
GranTorinoSport View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Admin of "The Org"

Joined: 20-May-2003
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 2287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2015 at 11:11AM
The axle housing flange has studs in it - it is a Chrysler 8 3/4 inch rear (not sure if they were all that way or not). It uses self locking nuts to hold the axle/bearing/seal/cover assembly onto the axle housing flange.

I had considered getting new self locking nuts as well.

On the passenger side (only) apparently there is the "adjustment" mechanism for end play. I have not disassembled that side yet to see what that means. I have seen a photo of one - it is just an unremarkable piece of angled metal, so this should be a treat.

I felt very strongly about replacing the bearings. It has 190,000 miles on it and to my knowledge they were never greased (there is not a requirement as far as I can tell). When I got one shaft out, the bearing was still intact, but I can only explain the lubricant left behind as a "black goo". It was neither rear axle lubricant, grease or a mixture of both. Probably could have been used as a prop in a horror flick.
Scott Eklund

Webmaster
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2015 at 1:48PM
X2 on what todd and randy said! if they have 190,000 miles on them i'd probably replace them. also most of those old chryslers had left hand thread lug nuts on the left front and rear wheels and right hand threads on the right side wheels FYI (unless someone has changed them to all RH thread)
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2015 at 3:14PM
The first time I tried to take a back wheel off an old Chrysler, I thought I broke the car... the wheel was held on with bolts instead of studs and lug nuts. My shop teacher got a good laugh out of our reaction.

Edited by Big Bird - 20-May-2015 at 3:14PM
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
bata747-8 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Honorary Spam Bot / Zombie Account

Joined: 24-June-2010
Location: China
Status: Offline
Points: 131
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bata747-8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2015 at 3:20PM
Yes, it still has LH threads. The car is basically unmodified from new. I added Mopar electronic ignition, but it still sports front drums and single reservoir master cylinder (of which I am completely replacing along with lines etc)

I need to start a progress thread on this.

Found a good dial indicator, Fowler. U.S. made, a little pricey but U.S. made.
Forum Test Account

(formerly a spam bot account)
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2015 at 5:18PM
i've heard of them, i think they are decent
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
GranTorinoSport View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Admin of "The Org"

Joined: 20-May-2003
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 2287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 7:37AM
So I received the Fowler dial indicator set today from Amazon that I ordered.

First off the bat, I noticed it was actually made in China:





The set looked nice. It had a heavy magnetic base and was nicely laid out in the case.



Then I took the dial indicator itself out… It does not line up on zero:



There is an adjustment of the dial face but it is not even close. No manual came with the set, and fowler, who has a great website, does not have any manuals for their dial indicators available. 

It seems pretty ghetto that brand new the indicator is way off and there is no conceivable way to correct the issue. 

Sadly, I think this will be going back to Amazon. It was $120, far more expensive than many obvious off-shore varieties, but at the time I thought it was a US made product so I was ok with that. 

Not so ok with it anymore.


Edited by GranTorinoSport - 23-May-2015 at 7:38AM
Scott Eklund

Webmaster
Back to Top
Gransport72 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member
Avatar

Joined: 13-January-2015
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gransport72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 8:33AM

That dial indicator has a set screw at about the 2 o'clock position, you loosen the knob and you can spin the dial to your zero, as you use a dial indicator on a mounting base it doesn't always go to the same spot, that is why you can turn the dial to zero. It looks like a good setup I don't think it looks defective. I've been an automotive machinist for eight years.

Jason
'72 Gran Torino Sport
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 12:08PM
scott, jason is right, you rotate the outer glass to line up with zero
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 1:58PM
Mine has a little knob, like the winder on a watch, that you zero with. The glass has a pointer that you can set at locations to show the max travel for the needle. For measuring runout, for instance.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 2:11PM
I'm too lazy to go look for mine (dark in the garage and there are spiders),
so I used your picture,  I don't know if yours works the same, but it looks like you have all the same parts.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 3:04PM
SPIDERS??? Shocked
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 4:07PM
Yeah, Spiders. Eight-legged creepy-crawlies.
My old dial gauge is somewhere in my garage. I think I used it last to check runout and backlash on a 3.50 centersection for the thunderbird about 8 years ago. (It's in a 5-gallon pail, still not installed)
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 8:14PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Yeah, Spiders. Eight-legged creepy-crawlies.
My old dial gauge is somewhere in my garage. I think I used it last to check runout and backlash on a 3.50 centersection for the thunderbird about 8 years ago. (It's in a 5-gallon pail, still not installed)

  !!!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2015 at 8:33PM
these i do not like!!! Black Widow Illustration
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
GranTorinoSport View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Admin of "The Org"

Joined: 20-May-2003
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 2287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2015 at 3:26AM
Guys, thank you for the clarification. I decided to keep the set, it is rather nice. I have to admit, I think I was extremely disappointed when it came as a "Made in China" unit and I was hoping/expecting a US made unit. 

I did buy an 18 inch rule from them as well off Amazon. It is US made and quite nice I must add. Too bad all their stuff isn't, but I guess how do you compete with HF selling for for $7.99 or whatever they have them for.

Unless you are making something that competes with a Mitutoyo, which is a whole class in itself.

While many of my projects *turn into* science projects, they are not true science projects that require such a level of precision as a $400+ dial indicator from a Japanese company. 

Maybe someday...
Scott Eklund

Webmaster
Back to Top
GranTorinoSport View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Admin of "The Org"

Joined: 20-May-2003
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 2287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-June-2015 at 9:53AM
Just a follow-up. I did use the Fowler set I ordered from Amazon, and it did work quite well for the axle shaft bearing adjustment:


Scott Eklund

Webmaster
Back to Top
Eliteman76 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 20-March-2006
Location: Nebraska, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 5044
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-October-2018 at 6:32AM
I'm late tot he party here but with a dial indicator they have their uses, especially for setting up ring and pinions and checking back lash. And BTW HOW THE HECK did I miss the "tools" section.
 
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
Back to Top
papadeath View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 08-December-2011
Location: Eagle Rock, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote papadeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2019 at 12:33PM
Ok, I'm building a 4.6L modular Romeo. I'm on the DIYFord page and its telling me that I need a dial indicator as well for something, its also telling me I need a cam holding tool, I already have the crank holding tool. How critical is it to have a DI and CHT on this build and can I get by without it? I've gone back to the site and it didn't have the part number there anymore for the CHT and I cant find it anywhere for the 2V unless I spend like 200 bucks.. Need help!!!
75 Ranchero in progress
04 Harley Deuce stage one kit
89 Toyota pickup modded
09 Scion XB (bought for the ol' lady) buy American! (sorry)
skateboard
4 bicycles
1 scooter
2 dogs
2 stupid cats
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2019 at 12:45PM
Dial indicator is fairly important, used for a lot of measuring/verification. Camshaft holder is pretty much mandatory for timing chain install and setting cam timing.
It's a different tool than the one for the 3v, because 3v has the cam phasers.
If you look on some of the Mustang boards, they might have a work-around or a better tool than factory manuals call for. F150 boards, not so much. They seem to lack imagination.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 14606
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2019 at 12:51PM
not sure what the CHT is??? but you can get a DI from harbor freight... i have a top of the line starrett DI that i got given to me many years ago in calif.
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
handsofstone View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13-April-2018
Location: Northeast
Status: Offline
Points: 3941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2019 at 12:56PM
If I was building an engine, I would put the timing chain on before the valve train was installed. No worrying about bending a valve. I have never heard of a cam holding tool prior to this thread. Then again, the last engine I built was a long time ago.

Edit: I see why holding tool is required. They put cams on the top of the engines. My how times have changed.

Edited by handsofstone - 19-February-2019 at 1:31AM
Back to Top
Big Bird View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25-August-2013
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 4194
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2019 at 1:22PM
Typically, the heads are done and assembled, then put on the engine.
Interference engine, so the crank has to be in a certain spot, cams in a certain spot when assembling the engine.
Chain is about a quarter mile long, with tensioners, etc. PITA to assemble these engines.
if you have an early, non-PI engine, swapping on PI heads really wakes them up and kicks up compression.
 
Never understood why ford found it necessary to make Romeo and Windsor 4.6 engines so different.
Like 351W vs. 351C different.
Then you have PI, non-PI, 2v, 3v, Intech, Cobra 4v.
Start counting all over with the 5.4 parts.
Spark plug holes with 3 threads in the heads, 3 piece spark plugs that fall apart in the engine.
Heads that crack around the plugs and drop parts into the cylinders.
Cam phasers that fail because it's fun, and tensioners that don't tension.
Pistons that slap, rock, and knock.
Intakes that split and let water into the cylinders.
 
Ford engineers hate us, and want us to suffer.
Only explanation I have.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
Back to Top
papadeath View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 08-December-2011
Location: Eagle Rock, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote papadeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2019 at 4:02PM
Yes, its definitely a PITA for sure, and CHT meant cam holding tool, hehe. I'm old school too and some of this stuff is just starting to freak me the hell out. The guy I'm building it for has aluminum aftermarket heads so I'm sure they flow better and most likely offer better compression, he's done away with the plastic intake and given me an aluminum edlebrock, may be a Victor jr I think, along with roller rockers forged pistons and all that goodie stuff, and I have to research what goes where... I already said all this didn't I... yup, losin it.
75 Ranchero in progress
04 Harley Deuce stage one kit
89 Toyota pickup modded
09 Scion XB (bought for the ol' lady) buy American! (sorry)
skateboard
4 bicycles
1 scooter
2 dogs
2 stupid cats
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.