Timing chain / retainer question. |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Posted: 07-November-2015 at 1:55PM |
I went with a mild Howard Cams retro roller cam and I'm getting ready to order a double roller chain set for the engine. I'm looking for some input from anyone who's done a roller conversion to what options have been used. The builder suggested a Cloyes set with a Torrington bearing. Me being me, I research everything. I put a call into Cloyes and they don't even build a set for use with Torrington bearings for the Cleveland. In fact said "they weren't necessary" and suggested upgrading to a steel retainer plate versus the factory iron one. Howard Cams apparently builds a set (#94320) that has a cam gear machined for and uses a Torrington bearing. Anyone got any thing on the topic?
Edited by lynchster - 07-November-2015 at 1:56PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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FWIW I agree that they aren't necessary, just something else to go wrong
again, if anything the steel will wear the face of the cam & the back of the timing sprocket rather than the stock iron thrust retainer. never heard of a problem caused by the stock cam retainer, it doesn't need fixing in the chain itself dept watch out, all chain is not created equal IWIS / JWIS = good Rolon = not so much " ... IWIS is probably the highest quality automotive chain available and would be my recommendation. It is used in many race engines successfully including Aston Martin and Nissans. IWIS actually make a 'super chain' identified as a G67HP version, fit for the life of the engine but naturally more expensive again. " http://tscusa.org/tech/Timing_Chains.asp -------------------------------------- > FWIW i pulled the front off a Cleveland engine after 500miles to check the > Rolon chain and it went from tight installed new to 3/8in slack in 500 miles. > Reason for the pull down was the timing was all over the place at idle. > Rollmaster set purchased. Similar experience here. Pulled apart a 351C with less than 8000 miles on the Rolon chain. It was stretched more than chains I've removed with 160,000 miles. > I believe I read there are two qualities of Rolon, one very good, the other not so much.. I mentioned my experience with Rolon chain to a local shop that does a lot of oval track engines. They use a bunch of the gold colored "premium" Rolon chain and says it works fine. The chain in the Cleveland I pulled apart was black. > In 2006 is when they switched to Schaeffler (sp?) chains from France. > They are tough and is what Cloyes uses in their timing sets, unless you > opt to ugrade to their IWIS chain. I've not heard of them. Another good vendor of chai from France is Renold. Many of the Ford Motorsport timing sets use/used Renold chain. > Someone recently posted about Speed-Pro testing a whole series of cam chains > while evaluating suppliers That was Barry Rabotnick on the FE Big Block Ford forum. When he worked at Speed Pro, they had offshore companies trying to be suppliers, so they piggybacked some chain and sprocket testing on an OE bearing durability dyno run. The Rolon chain from India cost them the test motor a couple times when it failed before the test was completed. A summary of the test results posted by Barry for the chains is listed below. IIRC, Speed Pro ended up using Dynagear sprockets and Morse chain but had some quality control issues then Dynagear went out of business. After that they sourced the high end Cloyes sets (which used high quality Renold and Iwis chain) and the quality control complaints went away. FWIW, the Ford Motorsport 351C timing sets I've purchased have used the Renold chain but the last set a friend purchased had no name on the chain. The middle and top of the line J.P. Performance sets used the Iwis/Jwis chain. The sprockets tend to come from Rollmaster (Australia), SA Gear (US but poor quality) and Cloyes (US, not pretty but good quality). Avon also makes some sprockets but sources others. Dynagear (US) used to make sprockets but went out of business. A bunch of the performance aftermarket companies are selling the poor quality chain from India (Rolon), along with sprockets from Australia (Rollmaster, J.P Performance) or SA gear. Chain durability testing summary: Iwis (German) - looks very nice but was not tested, but has excellent reputation as an OE supplier, used in high end Rollmaster and some high end Cloyes sets Cloyes (US) - tested OK Renold (France) - tested excellent, used in most high end Cloyes sets but not always Morse (US and Mexico) - tested excellent Daido (Japan) - tested excellent Tsubaki (Japan) - tested excellent KCM (Japan) - looks very nice but was not tested Rolon (India) - failed test Sprockets: Rollmaster - Aus - pretty - never examined QA, good reputation SA Gear - US - ugly - crappy Cloyes - US - not pretty - good QA Dynagear - US - out of business - so-so when they existed Avon - some sprockets, buys everything else Crane - buys everything Comp - buys everything Speed-Pro - buys everything Ebrock - buys everything Melling - buys everything Elgin - buys everything Note: Some of the test data was from Speed Pro, other from TRW. Dan Jones ----------------- The Iwis chain that rollmaster gets was developed for Rollmaster and the original owner, Bob Brackum. Most all chain is adverstised are pre stretched. This is done by stretching long runs of chain for a period of time. Brackum contracted Iwis to assemble his chain in the pre-determined number of links needed for a given application and then stretch it as a set. Huge difference in this and stretching a run of chain 100ft long. The IWIS chain on a rollmaster set to my knowledge is exclusive to Rollmaster. IWIS does supply chain to other but it is not the same. Chris Straub Performance Mfg. http://www.straubtechnologies.com www.distributorgears.com |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Thanks again Rock
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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