The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Powertrain Specific Forum > 335 Series Engine Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Timing chain / retainer question.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Timing chain / retainer question.

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
lynchster View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07-January-2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 2150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Timing chain / retainer question.
    Posted: 07-November-2015 at 1:55PM
I went with a mild Howard Cams retro roller cam and I'm getting ready to order a double roller chain set for the engine. I'm looking for some input from anyone who's done a roller conversion to what options have been used.
The builder suggested a Cloyes set with a Torrington bearing. Me being me, I research everything. I put a call into Cloyes and they don't even build a set for use with Torrington bearings for the Cleveland. In fact said "they weren't necessary" and suggested upgrading to a steel retainer plate versus the factory iron one. Howard Cams apparently builds a set (#94320) that has a cam gear machined for and uses a Torrington bearing.

Anyone got any thing on the topic?


Edited by lynchster - 07-November-2015 at 1:56PM
Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig"
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6059
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2015 at 6:06AM
FWIW I agree that they aren't necessary, just something else to go wrong
 
again, if anything the steel will wear the face of the cam & the back of the timing sprocket rather than the stock iron thrust retainer. never heard of a problem caused by the stock cam retainer, it doesn't need fixing
 
in the chain itself dept watch out, all chain is not created equal
 
IWIS / JWIS = good 
 
Rolon = not so much
 
" ... IWIS is probably the highest quality automotive chain available and would be my recommendation. It is used in many race engines successfully including Aston Martin and Nissans. IWIS actually make a 'super chain' identified as a G67HP version, fit for the life of the engine but naturally more expensive again. " http://tscusa.org/tech/Timing_Chains.asp
 
--------------------------------------
 
> FWIW i pulled the front off a Cleveland engine after 500miles to check the
> Rolon chain and it went from tight installed new to 3/8in slack in 500 miles.
> Reason for the pull down was the timing was all over the place at idle.
> Rollmaster set purchased.

Similar experience here. Pulled apart a 351C with less than 8000 miles on
the Rolon chain. It was stretched more than chains I've removed with 160,000
miles.

> I believe I read there are two qualities of Rolon, one very good, the other not so much..

I mentioned my experience with Rolon chain to a local shop that does a lot
of oval track engines. They use a bunch of the gold colored "premium" Rolon
chain and says it works fine. The chain in the Cleveland I pulled apart was
black.

> In 2006 is when they switched to Schaeffler (sp?) chains from France.
> They are tough and is what Cloyes uses in their timing sets, unless you
> opt to ugrade to their IWIS chain.

I've not heard of them. Another good vendor of chai from France is Renold.
Many of the Ford Motorsport timing sets use/used Renold chain.

> Someone recently posted about Speed-Pro testing a whole series of cam chains
> while evaluating suppliers

That was Barry Rabotnick on the FE Big Block Ford forum. When he worked at
Speed Pro, they had offshore companies trying to be suppliers, so they
piggybacked some chain and sprocket testing on an OE bearing durability dyno
run. The Rolon chain from India cost them the test motor a couple times when
it failed before the test was completed. A summary of the test results posted
by Barry for the chains is listed below. IIRC, Speed Pro ended up using Dynagear
sprockets and Morse chain but had some quality control issues then Dynagear went
out of business. After that they sourced the high end Cloyes sets (which used
high quality Renold and Iwis chain) and the quality control complaints went away.
FWIW, the Ford Motorsport 351C timing sets I've purchased have used the Renold
chain but the last set a friend purchased had no name on the chain. The middle
and top of the line J.P. Performance sets used the Iwis/Jwis chain.

The sprockets tend to come from Rollmaster (Australia), SA Gear (US but poor
quality) and Cloyes (US, not pretty but good quality). Avon also makes some
sprockets but sources others. Dynagear (US) used to make sprockets but went
out of business. A bunch of the performance aftermarket companies are selling
the poor quality chain from India (Rolon), along with sprockets from Australia
(Rollmaster, J.P Performance) or SA gear.

Chain durability testing summary:

Iwis (German) - looks very nice but was not tested, but has excellent
reputation as an OE supplier, used in high end Rollmaster
and some high end Cloyes sets
Cloyes (US) - tested OK
Renold (France) - tested excellent, used in most high end Cloyes sets but not
always
Morse (US and Mexico) - tested excellent
Daido (Japan) - tested excellent
Tsubaki (Japan) - tested excellent
KCM (Japan) - looks very nice but was not tested
Rolon (India) - failed test

Sprockets:

Rollmaster - Aus - pretty - never examined QA, good reputation
SA Gear - US - ugly - crappy
Cloyes - US - not pretty - good QA
Dynagear - US - out of business - so-so when they existed
Avon - some sprockets, buys everything else
Crane - buys everything
Comp - buys everything
Speed-Pro - buys everything
Ebrock - buys everything
Melling - buys everything
Elgin - buys everything

Note: Some of the test data was from Speed Pro, other from TRW.

Dan Jones
 
-----------------
 
The Iwis chain that rollmaster gets was developed for Rollmaster and the original owner, Bob Brackum. Most all chain is adverstised are pre stretched. This is done by stretching long runs of chain for a period of time. Brackum contracted Iwis to assemble his chain in the pre-determined number of links needed for a given application and then stretch it as a set. Huge difference in this and stretching a run of chain 100ft long.

The IWIS chain on a rollmaster set to my knowledge is exclusive to Rollmaster. IWIS does supply chain to other but it is not the same.
 
Chris Straub
Performance Mfg.
http://www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
lynchster View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07-January-2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 2150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2015 at 5:57PM
Thanks again Rock
Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig"
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.