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fuel pump eccentrics |
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lynchster 
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 Topic: fuel pump eccentricsPosted: 15-November-2015 at 11:26AM |
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Know of anyone who sells the correct two piece fuel pump eccentrics for the Cleveland's?
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 16-November-2015 at 11:18AM |
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you don't quit do ya?
Hahaha you probably had no idea... http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1276048541 either here, Tim Meyer, 351C.net or the fb page might be the best bet(s) Edited by Rockatansky - 16-November-2015 at 11:22AM |
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72 GT Ute
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lynchster
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Posted: 16-November-2015 at 12:57PM |
The project has consumed a lot of spare time over the past 10 years so that's unlikely.  I do bodywork and know enough mechanical to be dangerous. "A man's got to know his limitations".Basically I can't find the one I pulled off the engine just yet and thought I'd check to see if they were available and where.......just in case. I actually read those articles last night and saw the two eccentrics but I noticed they weren't listed for the 351C. The one poster "Danford1" had some decent information but also raised some questions regarding stroke ratio and rupturing of the diaphragm. Not that I'd mind going with a one piece even if I had to trim it to fit with the Cloyes gear set.
Edited by lynchster - 16-November-2015 at 12:58PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 17-November-2015 at 11:32AM |
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who woulda thunk that something as 'simple' as a two piece fuel pump eccentric could get so complicated?
I have a stash of eccentrics, not sure what all is there but if yours doesn't turn up ... what's your time frame, how far out are you? FWIW I recommend putting off sealing the engine up with the front cover & pan as long as you can, until your sure 8 ways from Sunday that your distributor gear is not binding on the block ledge & there are no more checks you want to make (or write)
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72 GT Ute
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lynchster
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Posted: 17-November-2015 at 12:50PM |
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The more I read on the topic the worse it gets. "I'll discuss the 2 piece version and why it's a poor idea for any engine with a performance camshaft".
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Ford_mechanical_fuel_pump_eccentrics So now I'm debating. Modify if necessary the one piece available for the other small blocks or reinstall the OEM two piece. I haven't been time frame oriented in last several years. For the most part I'm taking a done when done approach. We're definitely on the same wave length about the front of the engine. I want to make sure the timing gear is lined up and that the eccentric (whichever one) isn't going to rupture a fuel pump diaphragm. I appreciate the offer on the eccentric. I'm going to dig around my parts stash at the garage this weekend and I'll get back to you about that. Thanks.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Nuggets
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Posted: 17-November-2015 at 1:06PM |
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Fit an electric pump ;) you'll thank yourself in the long run, mechanical pumps are all good and well but when the internal seal goes bad thanks to todays low quality gas it'll eat through the diaphragm and pollute your engine oil!
Edited by Nuggets - 17-November-2015 at 1:06PM |
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Barnaby
429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 17-November-2015 at 1:58PM |
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it's not so much the 'quality' but the ingredients in the modern blend, Ethanol specifically. today's pump fuel is designed to atomize best from an injector @ 40- 45 psi, but good point about the diaphragm not being up to the task of surviving the new & improved mix
FWIW RobbMc offered me to test his pump on E85 & he'd warranty it, his pump may be using a suitable material?
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72 GT Ute
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lynchster
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Posted: 17-November-2015 at 5:03PM |
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Arrrrgh. Another valid and overlooked point gentleman. Especially since a ruptured fuel pump diaphragm is what did in my blue 76 Torino back in '89. It's popped up in conversation about the rubber seal for the fuel inlet pipe to the fuel tank as well.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 18-November-2015 at 1:09PM |
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https://www.youtube.com/embed/xPQFQzSxxR0
Edited by Rockatansky - 18-November-2015 at 1:10PM |
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madmaxtorino
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Posted: 01-December-2015 at 3:23PM |
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Allan
Revelation 6:8 When there is no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth. |
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fordpower
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Posted: 02-December-2015 at 12:42AM |
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Is there a down side to going electric.
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 02-December-2015 at 11:59AM |
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typical Holley style Red / Blue electric pumps are loud as
 anything decent quality is $$$ blows the stock look
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72 GT Ute
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fordpower
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Posted: 02-December-2015 at 2:55PM |
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ya I always though the one on the pinto was just a bad pump.It was noisy as hello
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lynchster
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Posted: 23-December-2015 at 3:37PM |
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I have dug out my old two piece eccentric and found that the cam gear on my new timing set isn't machined for it. I either have to come up with a spacer to work with the eccentric or find a one piece that is compatible.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 24-December-2015 at 1:29AM |
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how can something so simple get to where this is? good news on the Cleveland we can easily see what's happening with the pump.& eccentric in place, those poor Windsor SOB's I suppose can check for pump over-travel by looping a piece of wire around the pump arm & checking for a little extra travel when the pump is at full stroke by pulling on the wire
currently available at Summit they only have 2 versions of the 1 piece, for 3/8" bolt or 7/16" bolt I've seen magazine articles directing the process of machining down the timing sprocket to allow the eccentric to be used w/o alterations, more of a 'getting back to the way it was' scenario or if the pump arm is clear I suppose you could just run the 1 piece eccentric on a belt sander until it fits inside the cover? a lathe guy could turn it down in a couple minutes  just remember to have the cam pulled forward to the retainer plate when you measure for the cut & check clearance
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aquartlow
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Posted: 24-December-2015 at 1:51AM |
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I remember rebuilding a 70's 460 for a 4x4 I had years ago, I let the machine shop order the parts(
 ), they ordered an EFI timing set and that cam sprocket (of course)had no provision for the fuel pump eccentric  . On my Ranchero, I went with an Edelbrock electric fuel pump, rather quiet compared to a Holley or Carter electric pump. I went electric after the original style and aftermarket Edelbrock 1728 mechanical fuel pumps both had vapor lock issues. No problems once I went electric, although did have a bit of wiring work. I will say, but have no technical proof, that today's oxygenated fuels seem to be far more susceptible to vapor lock issues when a vacuum is placed upon the fuel compared to quality fuels of the past. Good luck with your choices
Edited by aquartlow - 24-December-2015 at 1:52AM |
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Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Big Bird
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Posted: 24-December-2015 at 2:02AM |
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When I swapped in my engine (86 GT) it had a 1 piece eccentric. I used the 2 piece eccentric and timing cover from my existing engine. They appeared to be identical in exterior size, and I don't know why the EFI engine even had one. Anyways, all this is making me wonder wether I put something together that is going to do damage...
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fordpower
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Posted: 24-December-2015 at 2:16AM |
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Dam sometimes good to be dumb.I replaced pump on my351w before Ky.Maybe thats why now it does not like to start after driving a while.Did replace plate under carb to no difference.
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lynchster
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Posted: 11-February-2016 at 4:27PM |
I know, right? The long block is basically done with the eccentric being the lone issue. The plan is to have the machinist turn down a one piece to fit behind the front cover. He's going to run it by someone he knows that is Cleveland-centric. I'm hoping to have it in a week or two so I can spend even more money on it to get it fired it up. I assume he would know to pull the cam forward but being as important as that small point is I will mention it anyway. Thanks for bringing that one up Rock. Chuck
Edited by lynchster - 11-February-2016 at 4:28PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 12-February-2016 at 2:54PM |
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the only other issue I can think of is to check & make sure the pump has some amount of travel left in the arm so it's not trying to stretch the diaphragm in an over-travel situation. IIRC the Cleveland eccentric has the lesser amount of stroke or throw & the 1 piece may have more
will the increased arm travel create a fuel pressure issue? |
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lynchster
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Posted: 21-February-2016 at 3:00PM |
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To put this to bed (hopefully) and for future posterity......................... After some consultation we went with a factory one piece fuel pump eccentric that was narrowed for clearance behind the front cover. The difference was only 25 thousandths. Hopefully none of us will have to ask this question again.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Rockatansky wrote: