Axle bearing retainer plates...why are there TWO? |
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fordismyboss
Senior Member Joined: 05-January-2014 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 397 |
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Posted: 10-December-2016 at 11:23AM |
My 72 GTS has the small bearing rear axle and it has two bearing retainer plates, a slotted one on top of the closed rectangle one. Does anyone know why, and if I can simply use just the single retainer plate? The first pic shows the slotted retainer and the second shows how I installed only the single retainer plate.
I have installed rear disc backing plates that require a spacer to accept the thicker backing plates. This moves the second retainer closer to the wider neck on the axle. I could install the second slotted retianer plate also but I would have to modify it. I do not see the reason for both. |
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mach1000
Senior Member Joined: 09-December-2015 Location: Utica NY Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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All the 7173 Mustangs and Cougars with the 9" rear end only have the single plate. I'd be interested in knowing the reason for that extra plate.
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Mach1000
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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???? there should be two...one for the left side one for the right side you mean there was two stacked together??
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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That's unique to me and I've replaced mine. I have never seen the U shaped ones you've posted. Looks like they'd strengthen the stock retainers though.
I wound up going with thicker one piece retainers after I snapped an axle and realized that was all that was holding the axle in on the drive back to work. |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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qcode72
Member Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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That was a recall on early production 72s to help prevent loss of axle from bearing fairure.
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Interesting. You an old Ford tech? |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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qcode72
Member Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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Ford service manager,also had a failure on my new 72 gts/ The bearings were to small and lite duty.
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fordismyboss
Senior Member Joined: 05-January-2014 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 397 |
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This car has a November 1971 build date so it was part of the recall. My guess is that the new Timken (they look like they are the sealed type) bearings and retainer sleeve I just installed are better than the original bearing/sleeve and may not have the failure mode the original bearings had. Would you agree, or should I modify the second retainer and install it too? If I do this, It will probably require longer bolts.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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so you didn't go with the lincoln mark housing? an aftermarket kit?
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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fordismyboss
Senior Member Joined: 05-January-2014 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 397 |
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Currently upgrading the stock housing with 2000 Crown Vic/Lincoln parts. May go your route down the road after the 429CJ goes in.........if I find a complete Lincoln disc rear.......!
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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oh ok. 429CJ??? NICE!!!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Good to know. I re did the stock rear in mine but have plans to redo a later rear when I upgrade to the posi. |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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I have a pair of the recall plates for the early first run cars with the 9".
I need to dig up my info but I doubt I still have the paperwork on it. If anyone has access to the NY Times, and is a subscriber, I'd love to download that article and save it in PDF for my files. NY Times had an article: The NationDETROIT — On April 8, George Krumbhaar Jr., a Washington attorney, was doing 70 on Interstate 708 near Hancock, Md., when, suddenly, the engine of his 1972 Ford Torino station wagon began racing wildly. Then—barn—the rear end of the automobile slammed to the highway. The car skidded along the highway for about 200 yards and as it came to a stop, flames shot out under the rear near the gas tank. The shaken Mr. Krumbhaar left his wife and two children on the side of the expressway and hiked a mile to house, where he called the Hancock Ford dealer. The car was towed to the garage, where it was kept for about two weeks before it was repaired. The Krumbhaar family outing was brought to an end by faulty bearings. The bearings failed and the rear axle and rear wheels pulled away from the car. And last week, it was revealed that Mr. Krumbhaar was not the only man in the country with Ford problems. The Ford Motor Company announced in Detroit that it had had 16 reports of such trouble and was recalling 423,000 1972 Torinos and Mercury Montegos to guard against bearing failures. The cost to Ford: $5‐million to $10‐million. Ford intends to install an extra set of retainer plates in the rear axles of the automobiles to “insure audible warning in the event of bearing failure.” Thus, the failures still can occur, but before they do, a screeching noise, caused by the extra plates, will serve notice that the bearings are about to go. Then, under Ford's plan, the driver will take his car to his local Ford agency, where the bearings will be replaced without charge. This hardlypatisfied the critics. Dr. Carl Nash, a physicist with the Public Interest Research Group, a Ralph Nader organization in Washington, described the Ford plan as the “balingwire” approach to guarding against safety defects. Indeed, at week's end, Ford was reported to be examining its production schedules with an eye to producing enough additional axle shafts to replace the entire axle unit. Dr. Nash said the recall placed Ford in the class with General Motors Corporation in dealing with auto safety, an unkind reference to the G.M. recall of 6.7‐million Chevrolet cars and trucks last December, the largest recall in history. In that recall, G.M. said it would install straps to hold possibly faulty engine mounts in position, and G.M. president Edward N. Cole said that the failure of the engine mounts—which motorists described as a terrifying experience—“was no more serious than a flat tire.” Recalls in recent years have become a regular part of American life, as assured it seems, as automobile production itself. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in Washington, about 25 million American and foreign‐made vehicles have been recalled in this country since 1966, when the Highway Safety Act was passed. This means that four of every 10 autos or trucks, American or foreign, sold in this country since 1966 have been recalled. Recalls come about when the N.H.T.S.A. or an auto company suspects that autos or trucks may have safety defects. The N.H.T.S.A. has no power to order recalls. It recommends that the companies institute a recall, or the companies do this on their own. When recalls are instituted, the auto companies estimate that only between 50 and 85 per cent of recalled vehicles are actually brought in for safety checks. The auto manufacturers insist that their cars have never been safer, more durable, or more trouble‐free. They have been recalling automobiles for decades, they say, beginning in 1916 when Buick discovered that its gas tanks were falling off. Buick solved the problem—somewhat as G.M. solved the engine‐mount problem—by putting an extra support on the gas tanks. Before the rise of consumerism, recalls, however many and for what reasons, were done privately. Figures comparing that era to this have never been revealed. What has happened in recent years, the companies say, is that with the rise of the consumer movement there is more publicity about recalls. A Ford official says that the nation is fortunate to “have the luxury” to be focusing on problems like the Torino and Montego bearings instead “of where am I going to get my next job —the things my father went through.” A Chrysler official says that less than 2 per cent of the firm's output is involved in recalls. However, auto critic Nash says that the fact that 25 million vehicles have been involved in recall campaigns in seven years tells him that “auto companies are trying to cut their costs to the bone.” The industry laments that stories about recalls—which the companies say are done in the best interest of customer safety—usually end up on front pages and bring only unfavorable publicity. “We try to be the good guys,” says one industry man, “and we get it in the teeth.” Ralph Nader, the auto critic, remains adamant, of course. He contends that methods of guarding against safety defects, like straps for engine mounts and warning devices for Ford bearings, “are becoming increasingly shoddy.” He says there must be new legislation to give the Government authority to order recalls and the companies should be made to explain publicly to the Government how defects come about, what executives were responsible and what reforms have been instituted to guard against future defects. The cost of anticipated recalls, he contends, has now been figured into the price of buying a car And the firms he says, also profit by selling parts unrelated to the recall to customers who bring their cars in for safety checks and by giving them service. “Recalls,” Mr. Nader contends, “are good business.” Yet the best of auto testing may not reveal problems. The major target of Detroit's Critics, for example, was always G.M.'s Corvair car. But the magazine Consumer Reports, no ally of Detroit, tested the Corvair when it came out in 1960 and said of its inclination to over‐respond under slippery road conditions: “No problem arises from this tendency in normal driving.” And, in any case, the magazine said, this “single undesirable feature” had made possible “some important handling gains.” The Corvair, of course, was the automobile that Mr. Nader attacked in his famous book, “Unsafe at Any Speed,” and which G.M. later killed, largely as a result of Mr. Nader's disastrous attack. Mr. Serrin is a Detroit reporter and the author of a forthcoming study of General Motors and the United. Auto Workers. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Oh, I am not sure why the text changed?? I am on Google Chrome on a Mac, no clue why it's changed the text??
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Here is a link to a TSB for sale on Ebay regarding this.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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fordismyboss
Senior Member Joined: 05-January-2014 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 397 |
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Great forum input on this issue! With links to the NYT article AND Ford internal memo!!!! Wow!
So clearly these extra plates are designed to be installed without axle removal and to touch the axle when the bearings start to go out of tolerance, thus creating noise to alert the driver. With the improved bearing technology, I'm leaving them off. But I may put them in a folder along with that Ford Memo! Edited by fordismyboss - 12-December-2016 at 4:12AM |
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qcode72
Member Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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The bearings would let go without warning.This would let the axle come out of housing causing axle failure,breaking. I speak from experience. 6000 mile car.
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
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What was the final solution to fixing these axles? Was it just a new bearing design? Replace the old bearings with the new? And what was causing the failures?
I know my car had it done when it was new, but I have no details on what the changes were.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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qcode72
Member Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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Ford went with a new housings and bigger bearings.This is the housings used on 73 to 79,torino,ltd11,cougar,montego,and tbird
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
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I realize that, but what I meant what was the fix for the 1972 cars? Ford did a recall on them and eventually fixed them properly. My rear axle had near 150K miles on the bearings after the recall without issue. And weren't the previous generation Torino's small bearing 9" rears. Why didn't they have any issues?
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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It was probably just a supply issue with a bad batch of bearings. It either didn't show up in testing or Ford bean counters figured for built in liability cost. Considering the Pinto debacle it's not an unlikely scenario.
In either case the axle housing / bearing upgrade in '73 would be a reasonable recourse once NHTSA got involved. |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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qcode72
Member Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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the fix cured the problem and got the government off their back.
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
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I did some digging and found the campaign. I think the double retaining plate was a temporary solution until Ford came out with the proper solution. My car went into service on 4 April 1972 and had the recall done for the rear axle and steering on the 8 April 1972.
The campaign was below states that new bearings and larger axles are installed. This seems to match my dad's memory. It seems that it was rear axle deflection, cause be weak axles shafts, that may have been the issue that caused the bearing failure. I recall from having my axles apart that the axles shafts are the small 28 spline diameter near the differential, but actually get thicker shortly after the differential. At the wheel bearing they are the same diameter as a 31 spine axle. I remember having a hard time finding axle seals for the car and had to use small bearing 31 spline seals even though I have 28 spline axle shafts. This is what I believe were the replacement axles. The circled part is where the axle increases in thickness from 28 to 31 spline. This is the original NHSTA Campaign: Report Receipt Date: APR 26, 1972
NHTSA Campaign Number: 72V095000 Component(s): POWER TRAIN Vehicle MakeModelModel Year(s)
0 Associated DocumentsManufacturer: FORD MOTOR COMPANY SUMMARY:CONSEQUENCE:REMEDY:NOTES:FORD CAMPAIGN NO H-2D AND H-2D #2. POSSIBILITY THAT REAR AXLE BEARING MAYDETERIORATE DUE TO HIGH AXLE SHAFT DEFLECTION. DETERIORATION OF BEARINGUSUALLY WILL PRODUCE SUFFICIENT NOISE AND VIBRATION TO INDICATE NEED FORREPAIR; RELATIVE MOVEMENT OF AXLE SHAFT WILL RESULT IN COMPLETE LOSS OFTRACTIVE EFFECT AS IT DISENGAGES FROM DIFFERENTIAL. (CORRECT BY INSPECTING ANDREPLACING WITH LARGER DIAMETER SHAFT AXLE AND NEW BEARING. ) |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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A bit off topic. Was the steering recall box, pump, or linkage?
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
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It was the steering box, sounds like some were not assembled properly. FORD CAMPAIGN NO H-5B. W/POWER STEERING. POSSIBILITY THAT POWER STEERING GEAR ASSEMBLIES WERE BUILT WITH WORM AND VALVE ASSEMBLY TORSION ROD LOCK PININ ADVERTENTLY OMITTED. IF CONDITION EXISTS, COULD RESULT IN LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL. (CORRECT BY INSPECTING AND INSTALLING PIN WHERE NECESSARY. )
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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I have that memo in the stack of papers on my Squire. Also have the info on the Ram Air unit availability, 351 4V production hold, etc. Pretty cool stuff.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
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So I found one of the letters sent out by Ford in Joes old post about his Squire. It seems the double plate was just a temporary measure like I thought. Ford did this as an extra precaution to warn drivers of a bearing failure. The permanent fix was new bearings and a larger rear axle. I guess because my car was delivered in early April 1972 when this campaign started, maybe that's why it was able to get the recall within a short period of time of delivery.
Here is the thread with the photo of the letter for those interested. It's hard to read, but you can make out most of it.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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If I can get my scanner working and find all those documents, I'll scan and post them for everyone. Just thinking about all that makes me a little sad that I may have that Squire sold.
Edited by unlovedford - 15-December-2016 at 1:39AM |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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i just took my fall of 1971 built, 1972montego apart and it had these stacked bearing plates too. the bearings all felt fine
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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