A/C Conversion or Replacement? |
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havanariviera
Senior Member Joined: 24-August-2015 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 243 |
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Posted: 29-January-2018 at 12:30PM |
Hi All, looking to the group for expertise - I have a 72 GTS, it is a factory A/C car - the heater works really well, and the air (when switched to cold) blows powerfully when turned on - just not cold. I have been looking for a solution for this issue that I can share with my mechanic. (I'm not a DIY guy as you might already know)
Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions. All original components are there, and as mentioned, it blows full force - just not cold. I've tried to do some research on conversion kits, etc., but unfortunately I don't always know what I'm looking at or how to interpret it. When I talked briefly with my mechanic on this topic, he said we would start with a "vacumm test" as I recall, to diagnose what the issue is first. Not sure if anyone has any ideas based on my description. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Needs a charge of R-12, or, someone did a "conversion" with one of the kits available back in the 90s. Kits work, but not as cold.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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and or a seal has gone south after the 90's conversion
what's the next step after you attempt to pull vacuum and fail? how do you leak test vacuum? |
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72 GT Ute
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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How long has the A/C system been blowing warm? It could be an expansion valve issue or a stuck STV/POA or just low on Freon. I would find someone with a leak detector, the electronic beeping style of detector and check each o-ring joint, compressor, condenser and etc. Visually you may be able to find a leak (oily deposits), but the detector should find them all. If there is a leak I would recommend a complete system tear down to replace all the O-rings, expansion valve and filter/drier, then flush flush flush the remaining components(may be a good idea to pressure check condenser and evaporator core as well). Having new hoses made is another option at this time. Try to re-use the STV/POA valve set-up(some can be easily adjusted for 134a use) for the stock style compressor is NOT designed to be cycled on-off-on like the newer systems operate, doing so WILL burn up the stock compressor's clutch in no time. The stock condenser will work with 134a, but at a reduction in efficiency as compared to R-12 use. A parallel flow condenser is preferred for use with 134a, but I don't believe one is made right now specifically for a '72 Torino, you would have to use a "universal" unit and do some A/C line/hose mods. Here is a link for testing your STV/POA valve:
Hope this is helpful. Not trying to spend your money, but when dealing with A/C system, you either fix it right the first time or re-do it all over again. Good luck.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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fordismyboss
Senior Member Joined: 05-January-2014 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 397 |
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From my project post:
Restore 72 GTS Air Conditioning system from R12 to 134a. Started with original 351c(now 429CJ) A/C system with no apparent flaws, just a missing A/C belt and disconnected compressor clutch. New "YORK" compressor from Classic Air in Florida, and new expansion valve, dryer, and O-rings from Old Air in Texas. Cleaned all components and hoses I did not replace with denatured alcohol and compressed air. Restored evaporator housing with new sealing foam and Thermo Guard FR. When I restored the car, I insulated the ceiling, doors, firewall, behind the back seat, and floor. Cleaned and repainted the accumulator. Rebuilt idler pulleys with new bearings. Used an original compressor clutch from a 1971 Mercury Marquis with a 429. Replaced the original condenser with a bolt-in unit designed for 134a (tried to save original condenser but it had tiny slow leaks) After cleaning the original components, there was still a bit of mineral oil left in the system and learning that Ester oil is compatible with mineral oil, I drained the PAG oil out of the new compressor and installed the identical amount of ester oil, about 13.5 ounces. Cleaned all couplings/threads with scotch brite and ester oil, hand tightened everything and then just snugged up couplings lightly with a wrench so as not to crush the new O-rings. Had a local A/C expert install 134a charge couplings on the hi and low sides and charge the system. No leaks found (except condensor, had to replace it two weeks later) and 38 degrees F at the vents. Very surprised at how well it cools with 134a. Still working great after 8 months! Knew nothing about A/C systems and found much help and info on this board, at the component vendors, and on-line. Hope this helps. |
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gpd294
Senior Member Joined: 18-September-2008 Location: Dallas, Texas Status: Offline Points: 2180 |
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These were the Guys I went with and have been very happy with their products. NOTE: This kit was purchased back in 2013 so pricing may be different now. Just a little info on my back and forth with them when I was asking questions as well: MESSAGE: My wagon came with factory A/C, but when I restored it the A/C > components were not re-installed. My question is what are the pros and > cons of installing factory components versus aftermarket newer > components (example your parts)? > > Also is there a complete kit that can be retrofitted with minimal > modification? > > I like the idea of new parts versus re-furbished old parts. > > I would be needing everything minus the interior under dash vent > system. > > Parts needed: > Compressor > Evaporater > Condensor > Drier > Expansion Valve > Hoses > Heater Core > Hardware, Etc > > > Thanks in advance for your help. RESPONSE: Carlos, we have under hood upgrade packages for your vehicle with and expansion valve and heater core for $845.00, price includes shipping. Underhood packages consists of the following: All new under the hood a/c system consisting of all parts needed for under the hood to attach to existing a/c evaporator assembly and compressor mounting bracket. Package consists of new Sanden compressor with clutch, compressor mounting hardware, complete hose kit with fittings, receiver drier, parallel flow condenser, instructions, and all hardware needed for under the hood. The underhood package brings your a/c system to a more efficient, quieter, and smoother running system and can be used with R134a or R12. We also have OE replacement parts as follows: New compressor $285.00 clutch assembly 245.00 Condenser 285.00 drier 85.00 expansion valve 75.00 service valves 80.00 hose package 265.00 If we can be of any further assistance or if you wish to order please let us know. You are also welcome to call us toll free at 1-877-542-8192 or 940-549-0288. J.W. |
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Carlos....1975 Gran Torino Squire Station Wagon restored to look like a 1973 Torino Station
Wagon my Dad bought new from McAnary Ford on June 6, 1973 in Gary,Indiana |
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sj_mr2
Member Joined: 22-October-2016 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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bring it to a dedicated a/c shop. If it were near me i'd hook it up to see if the system has any pressure. If not the easiest way to find leaks is to pressurize the system with nitrogen to atleast 200psi and soap test all the components to find the leak.
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Clayton
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Inkara1
Senior Member Joined: 17-November-2021 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Status: Offline Points: 283 |
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Resurrecting an old thread...
How well did the receiver drier from Old Air Products in Texas fit? The Four Seasons one I got from Rock Auto does not fit right. I can't get both connections to thread on at the same time (the biggest problem), the mounting tabs and screw holes don't quite line up with the screw holes for it in the condenser, and it's maybe 1/8 or 1/4 inch too short in height so the bracket that holds the top to the hard line coming out of the condenser won't attach either. The factory unit goes right back in, but I would like to avoid reusing it, in part because it's 50 years old and in part because it sat out for a week while I had the system open expecting to install the new unit. The Old Air Products unit is 5X the price, but what good is saving $60 if I can't get it to fit?
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Todd, that has to be the most accurate statement when dealing with our AC systems... And I can speak volumes about this process trying to update a factory system.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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gpd294
Senior Member Joined: 18-September-2008 Location: Dallas, Texas Status: Offline Points: 2180 |
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My AC continues to work well, but with temps being over 100 degrees for double digit days it's been tough. I take the wagon out either early in the day or late in the evening because it is just too hot and there is too much real estate in the wagon to try to keep cool.
Good luck and I hope you get your issue resolved soon.
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Carlos....1975 Gran Torino Squire Station Wagon restored to look like a 1973 Torino Station
Wagon my Dad bought new from McAnary Ford on June 6, 1973 in Gary,Indiana |
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Inkara1
Senior Member Joined: 17-November-2021 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Status: Offline Points: 283 |
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So it turns out my efforts to get the Four Seasons filter drier on caused a break in the condenser. But good news: Old Air Products out of Texas sells a new stock replacement condenser. Not cheap, but I don't have to fabricate anything or figure out how to get it to work with the existing hoses. I ordered it last week, and it just came to my house today. It looks like the right part, though I'll update once I have time to install it.
It's nice to be able to report that a part is now made instead of having to report a part no longer made as is so often the case.
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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PLEASE DO! I went round and round with CCA off of Ebay in '10 or '11 when I ordered a brand new all aluminum condenser that "supposedly" fit our intermediates, no dice. I even sent them my original condenser to build from and I waited for the updated version, the fabricator must be cross-eyed because it was wrong as well. I cut my losses and found a used unit(the factory stuff actually do fit quite well) in great condition.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Inkara1
Senior Member Joined: 17-November-2021 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Status: Offline Points: 283 |
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I got the condenser from Old Air Products in tonight. It fit about as well as one could reasonably expect. A few notes:
It was almost midnight when I finished, so I haven't drawn vacuum yet. But as far as physical fit, I'm as satisfied as I could reasonably expect. Already having the Four Seasons receiver/dryer on hand helped, I think. |
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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