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kychevyguy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Frozen engine
    Posted: 10-April-2020 at 10:59AM
My Q code 351 CJ is frozen. It has not turned over in several years. About 8 weeks ago, I put some transmission fluid into the cylinders, and let it set for a week. The next weekend, I placed a 15/16" socket 1/2" drive, on the crank bolt and tried to turn it, nothing. I bought a large jug of Marvel Mystery Oil and FILLED each cylinder. It has been soaking ever since (about 7 weeks now.) I try every once in awhile to turn that bolt. I even have added a 3 ft steel pipe for extra leverage on the wrench. It will not turn. I also checked the oil dipstick for an abnormally high read to see if anything is leaking around the rings, but it reads as normal. 
Any advice????
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hogfiddles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2020 at 11:31AM
well, that’s how I got my 429 unseized, and now it rolls over beautifully.

THAT said..... a technique that tractor restorers up here use with pretty good success—- 

Make sure the engine is not near anything that can burn—-
strip the engine down and put some diesel fuelin the cylinders Light the diesel fuel and let it burn.  The heat expands the block a bit and some diesel can work it’s way down past the pistons and strait to lubricate things a bit. The flame doesn’t go down past the piston so you don’t have to worry about any big boom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2020 at 1:54PM
i've used diesel but never lit it Shocked but in theory it would work but may require doing it many times since it think it sounds seized bad as usually it will soak through the rings and into the pan but if it can't get through there it's corroded bad!!!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2020 at 2:09PM
are you working the crank bolt in both directions?

not hard enough to loosen it but enough to let it know you're there

just bounce it back & forth with a breaker bar to get some slack working
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote hogfiddles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2020 at 3:29PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

are you working the crank bolt in both directions?

not hard enough to loosen it but enough to let it know you're there

just bounce it back & forth with a breaker bar to get some slack working
Agreed.... when I got my 429 freed, it was by bumping the breaker bar back and forth a few times each day, the give one or two good yanks each way.  It took about three months until one day the bar squeaked about 1/16”. I had about that much motion for about a week before it moved farther. Then, one day in a period of about 20 minutes, it went to about 1/4 rotation to 1/3 rotation, to 3/4 rotation, and then full. 
1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project
1972 Gran Torino - parts
1969 Torino GT - M code
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 5:32AM
Well, I have started the yanking on my bar both ways. Let's see how this goes....
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty"
1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 5:51AM
does it budge at all?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 6:54AM
yeah do you get any movement? if any tiny movement then back and forth Wink
 are the water pump and alternator seized too? don't laugh... the 2v cleveland i have had them seized but not the engine! might want to remove the belts to lessen the effort Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 12:06PM
Same with the clutch, disc could be frozen. Unless you have an automatic trans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 12:48PM
Originally posted by ilyes ilyes wrote:

Same with the clutch, disc could be frozen. Unless you have an automatic trans.
true! but putting it in neutral would free it for turning the crank anywaysWink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 4:39PM
It's a 4sp, and in neutral. I am getting ZERO movement. Not even the tiniest amount. The belts are still on, but they can be removed. I am thinking about trading my 2-3 ft cheater bar for a 7 footer for more leverage.
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rons73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 5:40PM
A fellow I worked with back when I pulled wrenches worked on a lot of old tractors.  Would get em from out in the woods and fix some, part some, just generally play around with them.  To free up stuck pistons he would try pretty much everything, but as a last resort would use a modified spark plug with a grease zerk and just pump grease with a grease gun into the cylinder till something moved.  To make sure the valves are closed pull the rocker arms on that cylinder.  There is a good chance of hurting something so... Last. Resort.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2020 at 6:40PM
if it's that bad you probably need to pull the heads and tap on the pistons with the handle end of a big hammer, or a solid piece of wood to hammer against so not to damage the piston! i've had to do that when other methods fail.
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2020 at 6:34AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

if it's that bad you probably need to pull the heads and tap on the pistons with the handle end of a big hammer, or a solid piece of wood to hammer against so not to damage the piston! i've had to do that when other methods fail.

That thought has crossed my mind, to just go ahead and pull the heads.

JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
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1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2020 at 1:34PM
all the cars i parted out looked bad but all the engines lit right off with some work like a bad ECM and another with a plugged carb but they weren't froze even!! and fired off later with this one being stuck that bad you'll probably end up pulling the heads at some point anyway Confused you may (or may not ) want to see in the cylinders...
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2020 at 2:14PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

all the cars i parted out looked bad but all the engines lit right off with some work like a bad ECM and another with a plugged carb but they weren't froze even!! and fired off later with this one being stuck that bad you'll probably end up pulling the heads at some point anyway Confused you may (or may not ) want to see in the cylinders...
That's just it, I don't want to see in the cylinders at this point!Censored
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
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1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-April-2020 at 10:54AM
Sounds like my last Mustang. I drove from Plymouth to Dedham with the pedal nearly to the floor and parked it. Went in the house and ate lunch and it wouldn't start. Starter engaged but nothing. Tried jump starting it and the wheels locked up. Breaker bar on damper, nothing.  Next call was to Tosey's Mustang Farm in Wrentham for a flatbed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2020 at 1:40AM
Did you ever get it to break free?

If you pull the heads, take and mix a quart of atf and a quart of acetone. It makes for one hell of a penetrating oil. fill the cylinders as full as you can get them and let soak fror several days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2020 at 12:52AM
Originally posted by BadHabit351 BadHabit351 wrote:

Did you ever get it to break free?

If you pull the heads, take and mix a quart of atf and a quart of acetone. It makes for one hell of a penetrating oil. fill the cylinders as full as you can get them and let soak fror several days.

Nope, never did break free. After I pulled the heads, I completely filled the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil. I put a 15/16 socket on the crank bolt and had a 5ft steel bar and worked on the bolt every few days jerking it back and forth in both directions. I even tried this technique with a buddy hitting the tops of the pistons with a dead blow hammer and a wooden 2x4. After 6 months of trying to get it to move even the tiniest bit and nothing.....I sold it last weekend.
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy"
1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty"
1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2020 at 2:20AM
Dang...never had one whoop me, but there's always a first time....sorry for your loss.

Any clue as what what caused it to sieze?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2020 at 5:37AM
Originally posted by BadHabit351 BadHabit351 wrote:

Dang...never had one whoop me, but there's always a first time....sorry for your loss.

Any clue as what what caused it to sieze?

I have never had one that I could not free up either. I have no clue as to the cause yet. I am hoping that the new owner will let me know what he finds. The car stayed locally.
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
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1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty"
1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2020 at 6:57AM
Originally posted by kychevyguy kychevyguy wrote:

Originally posted by BadHabit351 BadHabit351 wrote:

Dang...never had one whoop me, but there's always a first time....sorry for your loss.

Any clue as what what caused it to sieze?

I have never had one that I could not free up either. I have no clue as to the cause yet. I am hoping that the new owner will let me know what he finds. The car stayed locally.

Thinking about it...I'll bet the crank was siezed instead of the cylinders. Soaking for a week with MMO should have resolved any issues with the pistons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hogfiddles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2020 at 11:36AM
farmers around here have a technique of pouring diesel fuel into each cylinder bore then lighting it on fire.  It just sits there and burns, the heat expands the block, and hot fuel gets down through the rings. The typical wrench, pipe, hammer/block of wood are still used as needed
1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project
1972 Gran Torino - parts
1969 Torino GT - M code
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2020 at 8:22AM
yeah crank must have been seized too? hammer and block of wood will do it!! if nothing else doesShocked
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2020 at 3:08PM
Yeah, it will take removing many of the bolts and then the rod caps etc, to get things to loosen up.
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-October-2020 at 1:07PM
I've done the "tap on the pistons" routine too.
Did you know that the skirts break off easily on Ford Hypereuctectic pistons...
Screw it, engine was broken anyways.
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