"Aussie" heads with 400 |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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Posted: 20-May-2010 at 6:48AM |
So, if a person searches though the 335 series engine forum at ProjectBronco.com long enough (a stellar resource in my opinion), you will see several points repeated:
1. Aussie heads are closed chamber and will raise compression ratio (CR) to around 9.5:1 or so. 2. 400's no longer have a piston that will attain a higher CR (only stock style are available). 3. Modification of 351C pistons by modifying the wrist pins will work, but will created a shorted life for the rotating assembly. 4. Use of Aussie heads can cause detonation and pinging (the same problems 400's are so famous for anyway). I believe the issue with the closed chambered heads and the detonation has to do with the "quench", which I believe is the area of the "closed" part of the close chambered head that has too much clearance when the piston is at TDC (meaning the block is the problem, not the flat part of the head). But the more I read, the less definitive answers on this very topic I can find. Anyone have any experience with this problem? |
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Scott Eklund
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SquireCJ
Senior Member Joined: 23-October-2009 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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I have no experience with reworking a 400 but I have read much on the subject. Here is a link to a good article on a 400 build.
http://fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/02/Ford400/index.php |
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mtburger
Senior Member Joined: 24-November-2008 Location: Abington, MA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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I have run a couple 400's, but only in pickup trucks, not in a real performance application.
The quench and detonation issue is related to the piston deck hight, not the block.
The piston is way too far down in the hole to produce a good quench area, and it also makes for a very poor compression ratio.
In the past the fix was custom (expensive) pistons with a different compression height, that put the top of the piston much closer to the top of the deck, or at a "zero" deck hight.
Tim Meyer had a fix with for this with a reasonably priced hyper piston, but I don't see them on his web site now, and hyper piston scare me.
Once you get around the deck hight issue, then you hit the next major problem which is there are no good performance 400 Ford intake manifolds on the market for a real performance application.
One of the solutions to this was to buy a set of intake spacers and use a 351 Cleveland intake, but 2 sets of intake gaskets makes 2 times more of a chance to leak oil, and twice as much money to replace them when needed, plus they cost almost as much as an intake manifold.
To this add the fact that the 400 has a big block bellhousing bolt pattern, so you are most likley going to end up using a C6 with a heavy rotating mass, or spending more $$$ on some other solution.
I have been criticized for this comment in the past, but the when you consider these 3 issues when trying to build a performance 400, doesn't building a 429 or 460 make much more sence?
I am a Cleveland guy, I have 3 in cars right now, and the 400 is a "big Cleveland", but I do not see any value, or bennefit to going with a 400 in almost any situation.
I can easily see building a 400 inch Cleveland, or a 545 inch 460, but there is too much to overcome in order to get the same performance per dollar with a 400 versus either of the other 2 combos.
Mike H.
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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A 400 inch Cleveland?
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Scott Eklund
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mtburger
Senior Member Joined: 24-November-2008 Location: Abington, MA Status: Offline Points: 355 |
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Absolutely.
They will make 500 easy HP and can keep going all the way up to 700.
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Fordified V8
Member Joined: 07-November-2009 Location: midwest Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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I have just finished a 400 inch Cleveland. The Dyno results are delayed because my Hooker Super Comps won't fit the stand. Impatiently waiting for a set of shortys. I plan to post the entire build upon completion.
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70 MACH I "R" code
72 GTS 351CJ 72 TR6 15 F250 Lariat |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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I will be very interested to hear the details of your success story! |
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Scott Eklund
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me too as I want to build my Cleveland bigger HP for a 73 GTS and hoping it will keep up with the 1969 429 in the 72 GTS when it's built.
I would like to get close to 500 hp out of each motor.I know for a 429 that is not a problem but certainly want to see some big hp cleveland builds so I don't have to build it more then once and can order what I need the first time as I only want to build these motors once. |
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torino75
Member Joined: 24-May-2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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Hi, kinda old post , but i thought i'd put my 2 cents in anyways.
I have Built a 351M And slapped the aussie heads on myself.
i done some mild porting /gasket matching / smoothing on the heads.
i put 1.71 and 2.19 valves (not sure on the numbers, either way, i've put 4V head valves in)
hardened seats, angles valve job, brass guides, yada yada ;)
Slapped on edelbrock performer 400 intake with a holley 650 CFM
headers, comp cams 275DEH
Had some material shaved off the deck a bit to help.
Engine is running strong since 2004!! no issues at all with it
it is a great performer, not a monster by any means but it certainly boosts 300+HP
have to use premium gas with it!
the aussie heads are nice to up the comp. ratio.
the stock heads are said to be 79CC, i think my aussie heads measured up to 59CC after machining.
if you are thinking about doing it, i will say as Starsky said: ''DO IT''
LOL
SYL
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torkair
Senior Member Joined: 01-May-2010 Location: Tucson, Az Status: Offline Points: 430 |
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Using the Cleveland pistons with the "M" rods is easy, you just need to bush the small end of the "M" rod in order to accept the smaller Cleveland wrist pin, mechanically it's an easy fix since the 460 guys do it all the time, cost wise on the other hand I have no clue.
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72 Gran Torino "sport"- in progress
73 Ranchero GT- Q code-460/C6/3.25 open rear |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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i wouldn't consider 'The Mutt' a good way to go about a 400 build by any means
the 400 is the Cleveland's tall deck brother that never got noticed, after 71 it was detuned into a pathetic smog dog and never recovered from the reputation of boat anchor until recently. there was a puller truck called Shazam that used a 351W forged crank & quality internals to make 800hp. Tim Meyer's 434 stroker kits also use the 351W crank for the lighter counterweights, it's a drop-in with the same stock mains, rod and thrust specs. or, aftermarket stroker cranks can use alternate rod journal dimensions Edited by Rockatansky - 13-October-2010 at 8:21AM |
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HbMarine
Member Joined: 21-February-2009 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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my question is has anyone here actually had an aussie head 400. ive searched all over the internet and no one seems to have any first had knowledge on how they perform on a 400. ive been considering putting performance heads on my 400 for a long time and the only thing im interested in is if any one knows if you "need" to swap the pistons in order to use performance heads on a 400.
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72 gt 400m auto 10.2 @ 70mph in 1/8th
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. - George Orwell" |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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many factors involved as to whether the combo will work for you, cam choice regarding dynamic compression ratio, octane, gearing...
more than a few have been built on this forum,
sort through the back pages and you'll find some very potent builds and many tips
my opinion is that a 2V port will hold the 400 cubes back, the 2V head isn't a performance head per say. for about the same as a set of iron Aussies or not much more you can have new Trickflows
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HbMarine
Member Joined: 21-February-2009 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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I've been considering the edelbrock heads has any one here ever used them on a stock stroke 400 with a nice heavy cam. I've got long tubes the edelbrock 400 intake and a 750 carb.
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72 gt 400m auto 10.2 @ 70mph in 1/8th
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. - George Orwell" |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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If you are running a 750 carb, and it's not too much carb for that engine build, then you'd probably benefit from the E-brock heads. The flow numbers I have seen for other Ford products show them as superior. They are a 2V design, so you're good there.
However, your intake manifold choice might be your weakness. With only a Performer intake available, and the sort of flow you're talking about, I'd look into a better intake (351C) and get some adapter plates. |
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Scott Eklund
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HbMarine
Member Joined: 21-February-2009 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Actually I had tha same idea for the intake thing, I was thinking about useing an edelbrock or weiand airgap
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72 gt 400m auto 10.2 @ 70mph in 1/8th
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. - George Orwell" |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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You almost have to in order to get a good intake. It's two more gaskets and another two parts to worry about, but what other options are there? None.
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Scott Eklund
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HbMarine
Member Joined: 21-February-2009 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Now they say you might need to extend your distributor when you do that but I have the profrom hei dizzy for mine and it seems to have more clearance underneath it, I guess ill switch the intake out and see what happens
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72 gt 400m auto 10.2 @ 70mph in 1/8th
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. - George Orwell" |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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That issue I know nothing of. I'd say go for it unless you can find direct evidence that particular distributor won't work.
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Scott Eklund
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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a single plane intake will be a lot less likely to have an interference problem than a dual plane with the high runner doing a 90* right behind the dizzy
pretty sure Tim Meyer has forged pistons available, items seem to come & go from his site from time to time. probably best to just call Edited by Rockatansky - 25-January-2011 at 7:25PM |
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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Do you guys have a good easy access to Aussie heads or do you go the 3V ali pair ?
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1973 Q code sports roof
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HbMarine
Member Joined: 21-February-2009 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Tim meyer and aus ford parts sell lots of them id give them a try
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72 gt 400m auto 10.2 @ 70mph in 1/8th
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. - George Orwell" |
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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I was hoping I could help , they are reasonably cheep down these ways , I think the shipping would be astronomical tho to the US
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1973 Q code sports roof
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superroo
New Member Joined: 16-January-2011 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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yeh, i just can't see the point in shipping a set of old iron over buying allys...
CHI make an off the shelf single plane for the 400 but it's pricey as.
i was contemplating building my 400 to prove to people they can actually perform (look at that engine masters winner, with the CHI gear) but decided bang for buck to go 460 since its got the bb trans anyway
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Carl
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