Brake proportioning valve problems? |
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Posted: 14-October-2011 at 5:53AM |
Consider this a "public service announcement."
So my son and I have been screwing around trying to get the brakes on my 1976 Elite to work properly. We've taken the valve completely apart and everything "looks" OK with the exception of the piston itself. The piston "looks" like there might be a missing o-ring but we can't be sure - it could have been missing for the last 35 years. As one guy told me, if the o-ring had disintegrated, why didn't hte other one's do the same? Makes sense to me.
The bottom line problem is that you can bleed the system and get full pedal for the front brakes but ZERO at the rear so the valve is blocking the process for some dumb reason.
Anyway, after searching high and low I found an outfit in Virginia that will rebuild my original. White Post Resorations @ WhitePost.com. (540) 837-1140.
It's not cheap but at least you keep your original valve body.
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VorbottenO
Senior Member Joined: 22-March-2008 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Thanks,
I for one like the look of the original valve casting.
I was going to replace mine but after looking at the options, decided to rebuild mine. Fortunately it was in good shape and just full of crude. Once cleaned and new seal installed worked prefectly.
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Eric
72GTS-Ncode (429-477ci) |
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occupant
Senior Member Joined: 23-October-2006 Location: Lawton, OK Status: Offline Points: 1973 |
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White Post is exactly where I intend to send mine. LMC truck used to sell a cast iron one for F-Series trucks that was VERY similar to ours. But they were $350ish and still might not adjust right. Used ones are all 35+ years old. I'm just glad places like White Post are around for this stuff. Brass sleeves in everything, full rebuild inside and out, and they'll be easy to rebuild again later with more common than OEM parts!
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08 Uplander LS, 262K, broken again
08 Explorer EB, 195K, for the wife still looking for another something |
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mcford
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160 |
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Kent's proportioning valve.
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Mike
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Hi guys,
Just an update on White Post Restorations in Virginia. I got a call at 6:30 this morning (CA). Teresa said they just got the valve and it will be rebuilt and shipped back to me TODAY! Talk about a quick turn around.
Oh, it turns out they have a warehouse with quite a few misc. parts so if you don't have a "core," they might still be able to help you out. Teresa said it's not uncommon for people to ship them brake-related stuff so that others can make use of them. If you have old stuff you don't need (no brake drums) you might want to give them a call to see if they can use it.
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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How much are we talking?
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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whifty
Member Joined: 18-April-2011 Location: C.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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The rebuild kits are available for Cougars & Mustangs and should be the same as Torino..
http://www.cjponyparts.com/DISC-BRAKE-PROPORTIONING-VALVE-REBUILD-KIT-1970-1973/p/HW2878/ Edited by whifty - 21-October-2011 at 12:32PM |
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1931 Model A
1937 Tudor Slantback 1966 427 Fairlane 1972 429 Gran Torino Sport 1992 5.0 Mustang 2003 Mustang Mach I 2005 F-150 ASE Certified Master Technician |
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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It was $150 plus shipping.
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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The kit looks "similar" but I can tell by the parts shown, it's not the same. The price is good though.
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whifty
Member Joined: 18-April-2011 Location: C.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Here are some more, maybe one of them will work for you. If not shoot them an email, they may know where to get a kit. I have talked to them before and they are very nice to deal with.
http://www.cougarpartscatalog.com/nsearch.html?catalog=yhst-11089400041767&query=distribution&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.classic-cougar.com%2Fnsearch.html |
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1931 Model A
1937 Tudor Slantback 1966 427 Fairlane 1972 429 Gran Torino Sport 1992 5.0 Mustang 2003 Mustang Mach I 2005 F-150 ASE Certified Master Technician |
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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A little clarification is in order here. When it comes to master cylinders, I think you're correct about brass sleeves, etc. When it comes to proportioning valves it's a different story. The "rebuild" process is more of a disassemble, clean and put in replacement o-rings, seals and washers. Kind of expensive for that kind of work because it's not really that labor intensive. The issue seems to be that it's almost impossible to get parts that fit AND are resistent to detiorioration from brake fluid so they're "special."
As an aside, I called late yesterday (about 15 minutes before closing) to confirm my valve would be shipped out that day. The guy that answered said he was the only one there but he would go upstairs to check. He said it was ready to go. Given the time I asked if UPS would be there in time and he said it's not a problem. They leave the shop open and when UPS picks up the shipment, he turns out the lights and locks the doors. Try that in CA and everything you own would be gone by morning!
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Hi guys,
I got the the rebuilt proportioning valve and it "looks" great. They did a glass bead blast on the casting so it looks like the day it was built.
I read the documents they sent and noticed this comment..."Please note: We do not recommend the use of silicone brake fluid. Some usage has been successful and many have had trouble. The fluid will swell some grades of rubber causing your brakes to lock. It will soften and jell some rubber causing your cylinders to leak. We suggest that you use the kind of fluid recommended for your car and change it in a few years."
Needless to say, I thought with my luck the fluid we put in (Gunk DOT3) has silicone. There was nothing on the bottle stating one way or the other so I called Gunk and got routed to their lab. The gal that took my call said there is NO silicone in their DOT3 product but it is in the DOT5 product. She went on to say that if you have been running silicone-based fluid, you need to completely flush your system to avoid an adverse reaction between the existing fluid and the new stuff.
Consider this my Public Service announcement for the day
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Just a little update on the "pressure differential, metering and proportioning valve" situation. After getting the valve back from White Post, we installed it Thursday night and bled the brakes. All was good - adequate pedal and no apparent leaks. My son piled in and said he was taking it for a test drive. As he pulled out of the garage he hit the brakes and said, Houston, we have a problem.
He said we were losing pressure so there had to be a leak somewhere. As he pulled back into the garage, he left a trail of brake fluid like you wouldn't believe - thank God the parking brake still worked.
Anyway, it turns out the the "proportioning" valve itself (the portion that controls the rear brakes) decided to give out for some reason or another.
I called White Post and told them what happened. After MAJOR apologies, they said to send it back right away and they would take care of the problem. Their guess was that a seal in that portion of the valve must have failed and that they would fix, test and return the unit ASAP.
These things happen in life so it's hard to get upset given their response.
Oh, one other thing. When it comes to holding the bleeder rod open during bleeding, that's not a real easy thing to accomplish because it's so small and in such a tight place (the 460 takes up a lot of room). So, for what it's worth, my stroke of "genius" was to tie a piece of dental floss to the end of the rod, pull it straight out and THEN clamp it with vice grips - BINGO!
LOL - there are times when I think that car hates me!
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75GranMan
Senior Member Joined: 05-April-2011 Location: Colchester, CT Status: Offline Points: 1225 |
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Kent,there is a special tool that can be fabricated to hold the pintle out.if you have factory service manual.they show a pix of it and I thought they tell how to make one.(I believe).
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John 75Gran Torino 4spd
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kent
Member Joined: 24-September-2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Thanks, I was aware of that tool (thanks to psquare posting a picture and part#) but couldn't locate one anywhere and I didn't have the means/material to build one so the dental floss had to do.
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