351 W camshaft install |
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Posted: 30-November-2012 at 9:03AM |
well since im waiting to use my arm again and am stuck in bed could we get a step by step guide to put a mild cam into a 76 351 W with a summit 600 cfm carb. summit street intake and long tube headers. suggestions? ideas? and list of stuff/parts/special tools.
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Best bet is do a parts search on summit for a PACKAGE deal, that includes the intake and a 600cfm carb.
There will be a list of parts for the recommended kit and will give you the #s for the Cam and Lifters. You'll need a FRONT engine gasket kit, Upper end gasket kit while you have it apart do the Timing chain, fuel pump, and water pump. IF the motor is out of the car, get the oil pan gasket set too and do a new Oil pump. Might as well do a rear main seal and update/upgrade the distributor while you are this far too. |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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For tools a decent Socket set, Screw drivers, Only special tool will be a Harmonic Balancer puller.
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Well, I'm getting ready to finally tackle this thing but I'm thinking I might as well rebuild the engine and maybe do the "simple" stroker job with a 393 crank from summit, 302 pistons and stock con arms. What y'all think?
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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This is the crank I was looking at: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-9351w10/overview/make/ford
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Before you think about this too hard,my goal for my car is to be reliable, fun, and reliable. And fun.
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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sounds interesting, keep us posted!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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because I'm not up on Windsor based strokers I just checked the math...
it comes right up to zero deck height @ 9.5" using a 1.619" CH piston! actual uncut 9.5" blocks are gonna be a little over 9.5" though, maybe .010"? but that's pretty much perfect for a street build, leaves a little for clean-up sometime when you need it what are you gonna do about cylinder heads that were designed for a 221" engine? also, compression ratio jumps a bit with more stroke, make sure you figure out what it'll be & select a cam appropriate for it. you may find that you want dished pistons to control the CR Edited by Rockatansky - 20-January-2014 at 6:19PM |
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72 GT Ute
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Thanks for looking at the numbers. Do you mean that the old heads can't breathe or what? Lol. |
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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that's pretty much it in a nutshell. the exhaust ports are
with the stock heads you can see some amazing improvements in power, responsiveness & driveability, but it'll never be the 'fastest car in the valley'. the key is to not overbuild for what you have and stay realistic. if you keep the rpm range down & let the stroker do the work, you won't be taxing the cylinder head flow harder than they can provide, and you can always swap on better heads anytime what's the plan for the exhaust system? Edited by Rockatansky - 21-January-2014 at 9:35PM |
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72 GT Ute
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PS122
Member Joined: 23-March-2011 Location: Eaton, OH Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I also have a '76 351W in my S&H Torino. My plans are for a quite mild build with the following parts: Edelbrock Performer RPM and 600cfm carb (already have these), a Comp Cams XE268 camshaft, and fresh valve springs. I also have a set of Hooker Super Comp headers but I haven't decided if I will install them - probably not a great deal to be gained with such a mild build. Regardless, I'll be installing a 2.5" dual exhaust system with a crossover. If I had to guess, this should give me in the neighborhood of 275hp/350lb-ft which should be fine for my intended use (when coupled with a change from 2.75:1 to 3.25:1 gears). If I later decide I want greater performance, I think I'll look at other engine options. 351W strokers are great for Mustangs and other Fords with the intrusive shock towers and tight engine compartments. We don't have that issue, and 400m and 460 engines fit easily (and were factory installed). Sure these engines weigh more but they can easily produce 450lb-ft (400) and 500+ lb-ft (460). Try that with a 351W stroker and you are looking at big $$$ for the stroker kit, aftermarket heads, etc. Example of a torque-biased 351W stroker build is linked here: http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/1309_building_a_big_torque_408ci_windsor_engine/viewall.html For anyone that doesn't want to take the time to read the article, the (very respected) engine builder used a 408 stroker with aftermarket aluminum heads and other high-dollar parts and produced 390hp and 460lb-ft. The goal of this build was torque rather than all-out horsepower (somewhat unusual) and would be great for a heavy car like ours. This engine, however, is way out of my budget.I feel it is pretty safe to say that a mild 400m or 460 can easily produce similar numbers (maybe a little less top end hp but with more low end torque) at far less cost. I kinda like the 400, despite the fact that it has been maligned. But with the long stroke, great Cleveland heads, and the recent influx of aftermarket parts, it has tons of potential. I've kinda been watching CL for a complete 400/C6 or 460/C6 combo that I can snatch up, build and install sometime down the road.
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Joe
'76 S&H Gran Torino http://starskytorino.com/joes/joes.html |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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~460lbft peak TQ @ 3900 rpm, that's what I'm talkin about by keeping the rpm down & getting it done
pre 1975 2V style Cleveland heads on the Windsor based stroker would be an improvement, 4V heads on it can be a MONSTER |
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72 GT Ute
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robot9000
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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I disagree. Stroking a SBW is great bang for the buck. By the time you buy and tear down an old BB, you are 1/2 way (or more) to a stroker. I have read on several forums that the Scat kits are Da Bomb and if you go with their setup, you don't need to clearance the block.
A stroker kit and AL heads and you got the basis for an engine that will turn some heads and it can be built to produce some pretty good numbers.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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take the time to go by the local machine shop and talk to them.
You would be amazed at how affordable it is for them to build you a motor. IF you have a good shop they will work close with you to help you decide on the parts they want for your build. Some of the parts that are pretty standard they can get cheaper at times too. the other thing this does is gives you some back up help IF something goes wrong! They build motors for a living and will see/do/fix things you and I would not even notice that could cause major issues later! My shop builds motors close to the same price that you can build them on your own I also agree, the SCAT stroker kits are a GREAT option. all-inclusive package that has parts designed to work together.
Edited by Regul8r - 22-January-2014 at 2:34PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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but the Ford 400 already has the 4" crank in it stock [<:o)]
Edited by Rockatansky - 22-January-2014 at 3:03PM |
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72 GT Ute
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PS122
Member Joined: 23-March-2011 Location: Eaton, OH Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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And good heads! |
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Joe
'76 S&H Gran Torino http://starskytorino.com/joes/joes.html |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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not Bad heads
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72 GT Ute
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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I have a nice set of long tube headers and a pair of 2.5" turbo mufflers. I had the headers installed but I never finished the rest of the exhaust. I'll probably put in an x tube and have dual pipes out the back.
As for a machine shop, we only have a couple of choices down here and they are both pretty expensive, I forget the price I was quoted but it was about 25-30% more than what they usually charge in Phoenix. But I would rather pay more to have the local guy do it. Right now my plan is to pull the motor and take the heads off. I'm leaning towards just having the stock heads worked over. I'll go from there. The reason I brought up the stroker crank was in case my stock one needs to be replaced. But this car ran pretty good till the camshaft gear broke so I'm thinking it will be workable. By the way, this is the cam I bought:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2182/ Edelbrock Performance Plus Cam Like I said, I'm not looking to build the fastest car, I just want it to go with determination. |
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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yeah if you need a new crank anyway, you're really digging into the engine deep enough to justify doing it right the first time & not dealing with a shortcut fail because you didn't pull it out & get it clean the first time
I wish there was a cheap & easy stroker like that for the Cleveland! I'd do it. pull it out, break it down & have it baked clean. use the crank you posted to up above & make double sure it's for a 5.5956 connecting rod. the most common issue when piecing a stroker together is the crank counterweights not clearing the underside of the pistons have the cylinders cleaned up to the least amount of oversize possible & get the correct oversize 302 pistons with a 1.619" compression height here's where I get worried, how much compression is the new 393 short block gonna make with your heads? unbelieveable! look at these 2 auctions, pistons & rings for $100 http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Zollner-Pistons-Ford-302-5-0L-020-Oversize-/141152603904?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20dd59cf00&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-302-5-0-Perfect-Circle-MAHLE-Cast-Piston-Rings-Set-METRIC-1986-95-20-/190975880136?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2c770cabc8 not what John Force runs but they will. not quite the perfect CH but it'll help keep compression down too I'd be slammin with all that extra coin now you can afford to replace the garbage stock valves while the heads are getting done, springs too hopefully you won't get knocked over with an big cost to work your heads, many times it's cost effective to scrap them & buy new Edited by Rockatansky - 23-January-2014 at 1:59PM |
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72 GT Ute
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