Help on welder |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: 14-January-2013 at 9:05AM |
I have a buddy that has a Thunderbolt® XL 225/150 AC/DC that he will sell me, I would use it for my Torino project but I'm getting some guys say I should get a mig/ gas welder, issue is I can get this thing for $500 and it can give me a wider range of use and I wouldn't have to deal with extra cost of tanks and leasing if them, so will it be useful on body panel welding or is it a bust to try?
Any help on this I will use for best desision Edited by twood68 - 14-January-2013 at 9:09AM |
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Tony
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Grumpy
New Member Joined: 10-October-2012 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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I'm no expert on welding but this machine seems to be only a stick welder. If you are planning on trying to weld light gauge sheet metal like 18-20 gauge I don't think it can be done. I think you should get a mig along with the necessary gas. Depending on the input voltage, a good mig will allow you to do sheet and go up to 3/8 and better with multiple passes.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck, Mike |
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Grumpy old man
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legend onirot
Senior Member METAL GOD Joined: 18-January-2009 Location: hattiesburg ms Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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im no expert either. however, i tried to use a stick welder on some of my body panel repairs and gave up rather quickly. broke down and went to lowes and bought a lincoln electric 125hd wire feed welder. and i love it. it was less than $400 when i bought it nearly 2 years ago. you can use flux-corded wire and no gas is needed.
i would recommend a wire feed.
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malcolm 1973 gran torino sport (formal)... "Stacy Lynn" 1972 gran torino (formal)... "Mackenzie" 1973 gran torino sport (sportroof)... "Leela" |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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I would pass on the stick welder. If you don't like the idea of using gas shielding you can always use a flux core welding wire with a mig welder.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Yea I'm agreeing guys, I'm getting your all's same opinion from others as well, so I'm passing on it, keep my eye on the migs again.
Is the Lincoln's, Eastwood's and Hobart's in the same category of quality and over all good welder? Or not? I seen a Eastwood auto body package, I think it was a 135 model for around $400?? |
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Tony
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Grumpy
New Member Joined: 10-October-2012 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Can't speak for Eastwood. Hobart is another line from Miller I think. Miller seems to be a good brand but I may be biased since my mig is an old Miller 150. My tig is a Lincoln. I personally stick to name brands on large purchases based on the old "you get what you pay for". I've heard of guys spending good money buying a cheapo thinking they would be money ahead but found the equipment lacking.
Just my opinion. Mike |
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Grumpy old man
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Can you use flux wire WITH the gas at the same time?
You know what I'm trying to say? The fluxe wire ( I think you can use without the gas ) but can you use the same wire with gas? Just thinking outside my box, lol |
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Tony
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I'm not familiar with wire welders! Never used one! |
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Tony
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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there is special cored wire for use with gas also, industry term is Dual-Shield but various manufacturers will have their own names. it's not designed to go 'either way', only as designed for a specific process
for a flux core machine today i'd buy a $99 special at Harbor Freight, and if you want gas capability go ahead and get a better quality machine for that... or bite it and swap spools / shut off the gas when you want to burn flux core wire
the need for flux cored wire arises from welding in places where you can't block the wind sufficiently to weld with shielding gas. F/C originates it's shielding at the weld puddle, instead of the gas needing to envelope the puddle. even in a garage with the door open you can easily have enough breeze that you can't keep the puddle shielded
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72 GT Ute
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Eastwood has a 3 year factory warranty and the Lincoln has a 1 year factory warranty.
But I can pick this Lincoln up at lowes! Can any wire be used on either welder? If I pick up a Eastwood could I pick up wire from lowes for it? |
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Tony
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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wire is pretty universal as long as you have the corect type for the process, & diameter for the machine set-up. IIRC my machine has .023" & .035" drive rolls but can also use .030"
as long as the drive rolls push the wire, the wire fits through the liner and you have the right diameter tip yer golden. you can even use a larger diameter tip for the wire but it might not be optimum, some guys run a slightly larger tip to keep from getting spattered up & siezed in the tip but i think it's hogwash. on larger machines with full duty cycle the tip can get too hot & start siezing up but that won't happen with a small machine unless you really push it too hard, then it'll probably cycle out anyway. if it's running too much spatter then you might want to make a setting adjustment, but FC does run pretty snotty as a rule, it won't ever run sweet like gas. just the way FC is, and you gotta watch your polarity between FC / gas too. NBD
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72 GT Ute
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legend onirot
Senior Member METAL GOD Joined: 18-January-2009 Location: hattiesburg ms Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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yes. i have bought wire for mine from lowes and home depot, as long as they have your diameter in stock...
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malcolm 1973 gran torino sport (formal)... "Stacy Lynn" 1972 gran torino (formal)... "Mackenzie" 1973 gran torino sport (sportroof)... "Leela" |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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I'm still running with the used Lincoln 120VAC $200 MIG I bought from a shop I worked at.
Personally, flux core is for welding on farm equipment. Railings. I'm not in the mindset of using it for bodywork. But, Not my wallet, and you are the only one that can say it's what you can afford. Welders are deff. a you get what you pay for it. The newer Miller units are pieces of artwork, auto-adjusting, automatic sensing and adjusting, etc. I like they have a deal you can weld with 120, but then for higher power, 240VAC single phase power. Personally, I'd love to have a larger unit that is 3 phase power for real welding. But then again, not like I am doing too many projects where I am doing 5/8" plate anymore. Welding wire, there are different grades, thickness, etc. This is a good case of I say, stop in at a local welding supply shop. Talk with the guys. See what the offer. Some times bodyshop supply stores sell wire specific to the autobody market. My welder is buried in the corner otherwise I would get the wire info off the spool. One other tool when welding you can never have enough of: GOOD vice grips. Since American Tool {original owners of the Vice Grip, made in Dewitt, Nebraska} got bought out by Irwin and the production moved to China 5-6 years back, I seriously go out of my way to locate older USA made Vice grips. What's funny is I have all my pictures of body work and metal work. None of my welder! |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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robot9000
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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I bought the Eastwood setup this summer and have been very happy with the results. I think it was money well spent.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Thanks guys for the feedback, its helped clear me up on what to look for
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Tony
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srwith
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2010 Location: North E. FL Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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I like the stick welder for heavy work like the frame I just did. I will be getting a wire feed flux core when I get back home to use on the body. I do not want to hassel with getting gas. A mig easier and cleaner and keep the heat a little more under control.
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two loves, torino's and bike riding. drive and ride safe.
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Actually correction the Lincoln does come with factory 3 year warranty
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Tony
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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I will not use Flux core on body work.
We had some cars at the body shop where I worked come back because of it. Something about the chemical make up bla bla bla... but anyway... The welding started to show through the paint and distort the color. Hurt a serious money Camaro paint job. was told by the Tool Dealers at the time THAT was the problem. I think it might have been the body guy did not get the weld properly cleaned before applying putty/primer etc... |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Huh wow? Yea surely it was the welding guy, hate to think all these FC welders have a flaw on sheet metal?
Now don't get me wrong i totally want a gas mig but was seriously considering going with FC only to save some bucks, that way I could throw more money toward a compressor. Anyone else heard bad reports on FC body finish work? Don't want to make a bad choice on this! |
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Tony
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stanman
Senior Member Joined: 23-March-2007 Location: Nova Scotia, Ca Status: Offline Points: 1432 |
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Well, it will cost more to gear up a regular mig than FC, mostly because of the bottle of gas. I bought my own bottle and use CO2 instead of the Argon / CO2 mix because it's cheaper and a welder told me that's all you need for most projects.
That being said, the last time I checked, flux core wire was way more expensive than regular steel wire. So, although you'll save a few bucks initially, you'll probably spend that and more on wire. You could save some money on a "gently used" setup off Craigslist or somewhere (that's where I bought mine). Fire extinguisher companies (up here anyway) can set you up with a used CO2 extinguisher tank with a proper mig welder valve for a reasonable amount. I think it costs about $20 to get them refilled and they last a long time.
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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you have to watch out for silicon in the wire also. silicon helps the weld pool flow nice but stuff don't stick to silicon. for the quality of the weld itself and the elimination of flux impurities it might be best to set up for gas right off the bat. FC is a spit'n spattery mess that will likely cause more issues, it's best suited to projects that might never be seen & if they are it don't matter... like my car
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72 GT Ute
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Thanks, i'm confident to go with a gas version.
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Tony
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Smitty
New Member Joined: 29-January-2011 Location: CAPE CORAL Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I have owned Craftsman AC/DC stick welder, 200 amp Miller MIG, and a 175 amp Eastwood MIG (all single phase machines) The Miller was my favorite because I got the optional stich weld timer but it was also the most expensive.
I don't weld Aluminum, but welding Steel regardless of the gauge the results are better using DC current instead of AC. I sold my Miller when I retired thinking I didn't need a welder when I retired but that was a mistake. I got the Eastwood 175 MIG 220v which is a DC machines and for light home use and price it's a decent welder. My Flux core welding experience on a borrowed 110v AC MIG welder was poor. If you have friends with Welders ask them to try theirs. |
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