Paint spray set up |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: 27-January-2013 at 2:26PM |
Well Need feed back again, im getting closer on my stuff for my project, anyways on set up of a paint system I'm looking at, I'm not strong on what to have and use on the guns.
Again What I'm using it for, 1968 ford Torino project, so the air system, it will be used for some air tools and paint, I want to paint this car myself! Location is my 2 in a half car garage. So I hope this helps on what will work. I'm looking at a Quincy 2 stage 5hp 60gallon unit, it claims to have 15.2cfm@175 psi, I'm also looking at the Ingersoll 2 stage 5hp 60gallon unit that claims to have 14.7cfm@175 psi. Just trying to make my mind up on which one. I do know the Quincy tank outlet is 1/2inch. I do know to match up the cfm with a gravity gun or less, but it cannot be greater than the compressor can put out. Problem, I don't know of any good guns, granted for my use(beginner in a garage) hopefully not at $700 bucks a gun! Lol So I'm sitting here already with questions, lol, is the same gun used for primer coats, rust por-15 and base coats, clear coats? Wow head hurts now! Paintworld I have looked thru but that's about it. Next, is I have been told I need at least 30feet of line coming out of the compressor for the air to cool and before it hits the gun? True? If true, then it looks like I'll have a pipe going half way around my garage before I can use it! On the pipe, is there a certain diameter I need to match a spray gun with? Or is the 1/2 inch pipe ok? Lastly, i have a concern in my head, a work buddy told me I'm going over board on the air units, he says I should simply look at a 3hp 40psi unit and that will be fine for painting with and using tools, and also they make low cfm guns now that can do the job on paint. From what I have read, I should get what I have been looking at, so is what my work buddy says have any truth? Hope I'm coming across correctly on my questions, basically is what I'm looking at correct on what I should get and if so what set up in pipe length and gun goes with this unit in my work environment? |
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Tony
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Wow. That's a lot of questions Tony.
I will try to help. I paint, I do body work and have worked as a tech. Which coincidentally is why I refuse to do it for a living any longer. It takes all the fun out of it. That said. I don't know it all, and I won't pretend to know all. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a while back. Merely suggestions. I've had Home Depot 3hp 40 gallon 110V compressors and I've had 5hp 60gallon 240v compressors. If you can swing it go bigger. It's better to have too much and not need it than not to have what you need. It's easy to over work a smaller compressor which will only wear it out faster. The smaller cheaper ones are usually built using permanently sealed bearings and the larger ones will allow for oil changes of the compressor head. Air tools will drain a tank, especially sand blasting and painting. You can never have too much hard air line, the more you have to more air storage you have. Outlets are like electric recepticles especially in a two bay garage. A good body supply store can help you with a lay out. Two things to keep in mind. One. Water in the airlines follow the laws gravity. Come off of the compressor to a T fitting. At the bottom section of the T install a 90 degree ball valve to drain water out of the line. Start your airline at the ceiling and angle it downward as you go around the shop (however far you going). Every place you come down off of that main line for air fittings, install a T fitting so you can install another 90 degree ball valve below your air fitting to drain water. You can use an oversized (1 inch of so) main line and reduce it for your air fittings if you want to maximize addition air capacity. Just an idea but it starts getting expensive in a hurry. I'd suggest steel main airlines and to pay attention to the burst pressure. Shrapnel sucks. Basic info on paint guns. You can generally use the same gun for everything but there are different nozzle requirements. Primers generally require larger nozzles than paint. Working as a tech I used four different guns. Primer, Paint, Clearcoat and a small one for minor "stuff". At home not so much but I'm an obsessive gun cleaner. I would suggest two different guns. One for primer and a second for painting. For primer buy yourself a generic cheap gravity gun and just keep it cleaned. Sata and DeVilbiss are damn nice guns for painting but you don't have to spend that kind of money for a gun. As a beginner it won't make you any better a painter than owning a Ferrari will make someone a better driver. If you've never painted before, practice. Old parts even damaged part are decent to start with. At a body shop there is no shortage of damaged parts getting thrown out. Painting a whole car is not easy. There is a lot of timing involved and the correct temperature of harders and reducers will be critical. Buying paint to practice with isn't cheap either but painting a whole car without learning will be disasterous. Practice with the brand of paint you are planning to paint your car with. I'm kind of old school. I started out with old Binks Model 7 syphon feed guns and solvent based paints. I've graduated to the gravity guns and like them but I have yet to use the waterbourne primers and paints. I'd suggest checking into them because soon enough solvent based paints will be out. Hit up a jobber (body supply store) for better info. Go to several and ask questions. Just like a used car salesman their job is to sell that's why I suggest visiting a few and find one you like. Hope it helps
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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awesome Chuck, thanks for the feed back, lol yea as you can read I had alot on my mind last night
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Tony
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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1. Compressor. biggest you can fit and comfortably afford.
2. Guns This is what I use. I got this from a friend who works at an aftermarket body parts supplier. Two guns, one for primer, one for base/clear. I've done three cars with it over 4 years. Alot depends on application. A good painter can make anything look good with spray technique and finish sanding, and an awful painter could screw up a robotically applied paint job. I'm in the middle. Edited by Psquare75 - 28-January-2013 at 3:05AM |
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Like the price!
What is the cfm on yours? |
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Tony
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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off the top of my head i have no idea.
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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best i can find on search is they say 13cfm.
You guys got expensive water catchers or store bought? Basically i see they can get pricey and was wondering what you guys have been using?
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Tony
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papadeath
Senior Member Joined: 08-December-2011 Location: Eagle Rock, CA Status: Offline Points: 498 |
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Water collection/dispersal is important. I am lucky enough to have obtained a 'dryer'. I am a beginner as well but I have done a lot of research since I will be painting mine as well. I'm not expecting a 6K dollar job, but it will be decent enough for the likes of me. Prep work is number one, and timing is key; you want to lay down the next coat before the last one dries completely for best adhesion. I've learned much from youtube.com. All of those videos are slightly different, but I gleaned what I needed. You should have air moving through your paint booth from what I understand, filtered, and wet the floor to keep down dust. The better you prep it, the better the outcome will be. If you screw up, let it dry, sand and try again. Yay!Good luck and post pics!
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75 Ranchero in progress
04 Harley Deuce stage one kit 89 Toyota pickup modded 09 Scion XB (bought for the ol' lady) buy American! (sorry) skateboard 4 bicycles 1 scooter 2 dogs 2 stupid cats |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I know where a 80 gallon air tank is for 80 bucks, might consider tying it in with the one I purchase.
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Tony
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papadeath
Senior Member Joined: 08-December-2011 Location: Eagle Rock, CA Status: Offline Points: 498 |
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Sweet! A buck a gallon!
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75 Ranchero in progress
04 Harley Deuce stage one kit 89 Toyota pickup modded 09 Scion XB (bought for the ol' lady) buy American! (sorry) skateboard 4 bicycles 1 scooter 2 dogs 2 stupid cats |
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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My father and I set up water separators and traps, one coming out of the compressor, and one immediately before the air hose.
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Thoughts on setting 2 separate lines up, one for painting and the other one for air tools?
Looked at this and was wondering if I throw filters at this system would it be wise to separate out the air tool line from a paint line? Or no harm on running a tool off the same paint line that has a good water filtration system set up? |
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Tony
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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We've always run the same hose for everything.
If you were going to add a tool oiler inline, then yeah I'd say run sep. lines. |
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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I will toss this in for a suggestion...if you have a local vo-tech collage, and can swing for it, sigh up for a saturday class and use a school facility for spraying.
Years back I took classes at a community college and have faired well. It's like anything else, it's a skill. There is a technique to spraying, but it's also color, material, what you plan on spraying. Solid color, metallic, pearl, light color, dark color, all makes a difference. The final result also is purely based off the foundation. metal working. Filler work. Primering and block sanding...all effect the next step. Key thing, don't rush it, take your time, and spend some time at a local autobody jobber supply shop. Those guys can help. Guns, typically, you will have basic primer guns. Like a 2.0/2.4 gun top {mm opening}. Base and clears are usually a 1.7/1.8. I'm a bit fried, but just ask, always easier to learn from others screw ups! I've shot stuff in garages, warehouses, and bodyshop booths. Prep, clean environment, air flow, lighting, ALL play into a good job vs crap end result. Oh, and having neighbors that put up with your stuff helps too... |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Robbdtme
Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2012 Location: Central WI Status: Offline Points: 765 |
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I am lucky to have a friend with a body shop. All I will say is keep your spray area dust free. Don't be sanding primer coats in your painting area. When ready to paint back the car out and spray everything floor walls ceiling with water. Wipe everything with a good tack cloth and make sure any and all wax polishes are removed or you will get fish eyes. Practice on other stuff first. A very fine line between orange peel and paint running. As a amature I would really consider going non clearcoat.
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Johnny cash Special 74-75-76 freak. 77 XR7. 78 LTD II sport looks pretty but poop 302 in it.
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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THese water traps are very pricey!
so I'm thinking-i won't be ready for paint maybe a year from now(hopefully) so in the meantime anyone know of a good trap to get around my budget $100 or less? I can at least move on with the project this way and fork out the money later on, to get a good set up trap when I'm closer to [painting]
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Tony
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twood68
Member Joined: 03-December-2012 Location: indiana Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I'm only asking cause there is Soooo many to choose from??? lol
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Tony
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stanman
Senior Member Joined: 23-March-2007 Location: Nova Scotia, Ca Status: Offline Points: 1432 |
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If you use a combination of these cheap water traps you should eliminate the majority of the water coming from your compressor.
http://www.harborfreight.com/disposable-inline-moisture-filter-68224.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/oilwater-separator-68246.html Here's a Youtube video of the second type in use, although it's probably better quality than the Harbor Freight one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JwN0l-_pA
Edited by stanman - 04-February-2013 at 9:18AM |
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robot9000
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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The local auto paint supply Co. here in Detroit area (named Painters Supply, oddly enough...) has the cheapie plastic disposable ones in a bucket on their counter, so I assume they are widely used.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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We've got two of this style
http://www.eastwood.com/moisture-separator.html?srccode=ga220010&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=zzproduct_ads&adtype=pla&kw=&matchtype=&network=g&creativeid=15752129847&placement=&producttargetid=40408680447&gclid=COjE543enbUCFUQw4AodDjEATg One right at the compressor line where it comes into the garage, and another right before the air hose reel. Also have some 'drains'. I should take a picture. In teh summer, you can drain quite a bit of water from them. The disposable ones are meant to go right to a paint gun and are one (or two, lol) time use.
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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