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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2014 at 11:06AM
they also show this style too:

JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2014 at 11:57AM
Be careful in what gaskets you choose(if you plan on using a header gasket), even using the larger port  header gaskets from Flatout racing only leaves, at best, about 1/8" of gasket in some places to seal the headers to the heads. The 6126 exhaust port's gasket "ring" is larger(mainly taller) than a base 429/460 head (C8VE, C9VE, D0VE-C or D3VE-A2A), please check this yourself to verify the measurements of the gasket against your head's exhaust ports and the 6126's ports. A slightly larger port header gasket is needed, just don't know how much "extra" material is left beyond the stock port on other manufacturer's gaskets. I will try to post pics later to show what I am referring to.  
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2014 at 12:28PM
Click Here to see more locking header bolt kits (for the ford 460-521 engines) for sale, including the ford racing brand (and summit racing brand) locking header bolt kits.

Edited by dave302 - 03-August-2014 at 4:26AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2014 at 1:28PM
ARP also makes header bolts that are pre-drilled for safety wire to run through all the bolt heads, to stop them from loosening up. But unfortunately these ARP drilled header bolts are only available in two lengths which are: 0.750" UHL (under head length) and 0.875" UHL (under head length). I do not know if they will be long enough for your application.
 
Click Here to see the size 0.875" header bolts for sale.
 
Click Here to see the size 0.750" header bolts for sale.
 
Click here to see the ARP size 0.875" UHL header bolts for sale from a different seller, This seller is advertising them as stainless steel.


Edited by dave302 - 05-August-2014 at 7:00AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2014 at 6:46PM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Be careful in what gaskets you choose(if you plan on using a header gasket), even using the larger port  header gaskets from Flatout racing only leaves, at best, about 1/8" of gasket in some places to seal the headers to the heads. The 6126 exhaust port's gasket "ring" is larger(mainly taller) than a base 429/460 head (C8VE, C9VE, D0VE-C or D3VE-A2A), please check this yourself to verify the measurements of the gasket against your head's exhaust ports and the 6126's ports. A slightly larger port header gasket is needed, just don't know how much "extra" material is left beyond the stock port on other manufacturer's gaskets. I will try to post pics later to show what I am referring to.  
 
^^ this
 
I also found that various makers gaskets have different size port openings, some seem to be designed for flat flanges
(only explanation I could come up with) as the port opening skirts in & out of the weld bead perimeter.
they'll leak the first time you fire it up & burn out worse from there
 
bottom line is that I don't recall ever finding a PN packaged gasket that would seal my 351C-4V supercomps, not even a 351C-2V gasket could be modified because the outside perimeter is so different that it causes a leak. I even thought about stacking gaskets trimmed to envelope the weld beads but never did get to it, I ended up temporarily swapping on 2V heads so I made sandwich plates to adapt the 4V headers to the 2V X ports. basically just a 16g plate with 4V outside perimeter & 2V port holes 
 
can a std BBF gasket be opened up to your port or header bead / whichever is smaller & still seal around the outside?


Edited by Rockatansky - 02-August-2014 at 6:56PM
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aquartlow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 1:55AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Be careful in what gaskets you choose(if you plan on using a header gasket), even using the larger port  header gaskets from Flatout racing only leaves, at best, about 1/8" of gasket in some places to seal the headers to the heads. The 6126 exhaust port's gasket "ring" is larger(mainly taller) than a base 429/460 head (C8VE, C9VE, D0VE-C or D3VE-A2A), please check this yourself to verify the measurements of the gasket against your head's exhaust ports and the 6126's ports. A slightly larger port header gasket is needed, just don't know how much "extra" material is left beyond the stock port on other manufacturer's gaskets. I will try to post pics later to show what I am referring to.  
 
^^ this
 
I also found that various makers gaskets have different size port openings, some seem to be designed for flat flanges
(only explanation I could come up with) as the port opening skirts in & out of the weld bead perimeter.
they'll leak the first time you fire it up & burn out worse from there
 
bottom line is that I don't recall ever finding a PN packaged gasket that would seal my 351C-4V supercomps, not even a 351C-2V gasket could be modified because the outside perimeter is so different that it causes a leak. I even thought about stacking gaskets trimmed to envelope the weld beads but never did get to it, I ended up temporarily swapping on 2V heads so I made sandwich plates to adapt the 4V headers to the 2V X ports. basically just a 16g plate with 4V outside perimeter & 2V port holes 
 
can a std BBF gasket be opened up to your port or header bead / whichever is smaller & still seal around the outside?
 
I do remember the huge ports, intake and exhaust, on my fathers '71 351 CJ engine we installed into his '73 Mach1.
  Not sure if there are gaskets that have enough material to seal the factory port and seal the Hooker's weld bead correctly(other than the Flatout racing #7021, not saying these are the only ones either). The weld bead design actually helps with sealing each header tube to it's respected exhaust port, but the condition that Hooker leaves this weld bead leaves much to be desired. If Hooker could leave a sealing bead that was an honest 3/16" wide all they way around and flat, I believe the leaks would be reduced if not totally eliminated. As much as the 6126's cost, I don't think this isn't too much to ask for. I still to this day don't understand the differences in the 6126's actual port size as compared a stock D2VE or D3VE-A2A exhaust port, that these headers were designed to fit('72-'75 Torino, Ranchero, Montego and etc. with 460-C6). Here some pics of the exhaust gaskets and how wide the weld bead contacts the stock 460 port size.
 
This shows the gasket contacts all of the head's exhaust port, with a little extra.
This pic shows a marker outlining the outside of the 460 exhaust port, even with the larger sized port openings these gaskets have, they still need a little more margin width at the top of the port for better header sealing. 
Scary huh! They never leaked after about 5K miles, but I still don't like it.
 
www.supermotors.net/22468
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dave302 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 5:40AM
Originally posted by GranTorinoSport GranTorinoSport wrote:

My problem I have had is the header bolts loosen up. I was thinking high temp thread locker - but what do others do?
 
Here is a lower cost alternative idea: but you will probably have to heat the header bolts up to a temperature between 500 to 550 degrees with a propane torch to loosen them up, if you have to remove them.
 
I do not know if this is a product that the ford motor company recommends for their exhaust manifold bolts. But this product is within the specificatations of General Motors Part Number: 12345493, which is the same threadlocker that General Motors recommends (in their service manual), to be used on the exhaust manifold bolts of the 1997 through 2006 Chevrolet C5 Corvettes.
 
General Motors might even recommend it for use on other years of the Corvette and other General Motors vehicles also. The part number for this threadlocker is 24026.
 
 
 
 


Edited by dave302 - 05-August-2014 at 7:06AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 5:45AM
The stage 8 header bolts and the remflex gaskets look like a possible alternative to try. I will have to look closer at my headers to see if either the style with the long pieces or the shorter ones John found would work. Seems reasonable, though. The ARP locking header bolts also have some potential in my opinion (I learned how to safety wire in the Air Force, so while access is tough it could be done).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 6:17AM
Originally posted by dave302 dave302 wrote:

Originally posted by GranTorinoSport GranTorinoSport wrote:

My problem I have had is the header bolts loosen up. I was thinking high temp thread locker - but what do others do?
 
Here is a lower cost alternative idea: but you will probably have to heat the header bolts up to a temperature between 300 to 500 degrees with a propane torch to loosen them up, if you have to remove them.
 
I do not know if this is a product that the ford motor company recommends for their exhaust manifold bolts. But this product is within the specificatations of General Motors Part Number: 12345493, which is the same threadlocker that General Motors recommends (in their service manual), to be used on the exhaust manifold bolts of the 2000 A4 Chevrolet Corvette.
 
They might even recommend it for use on other years of the Corvette and other General Motors vehicles also. The part number for this threadlocker is 24026.
 
 
 
 
Permatex makes a great thread locker, just hate to even think about having to use a propane torch to loosen the rear bolts on the #4 & #8 exhaust ports. I don't know how this product will hold up to the concentrated heat at the exhaust port, using a heat gun I get readings of 400-450 degrees @ idle and about 650-700 degrees @ 1700 or so rpm. I do know the 550 degree VHT engine paint I use will burn off the top of the exhaust ports within a week or so. This is another option to keep the bolts tight, just not sure of the quality:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mmZg-pLdds&feature=player_embedded
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 6:41AM
i'm not sure the locktight will be that effective on the headers due to the fact that they generate about the same heat required to remove the locktighted bolts! great product! comes in blue (removeable with a wrench) red (heat to remove) green (supposed to be higher strength-- i've never found that to be any different than the red*) but if the stage 8 bolts won't work, yeah safety wiring them should do the trick! (just have to cross drill all the bolt heads) i don't recall ever seeing any header bolts drilled for safety wire


Edited by californiajohnny - 03-August-2014 at 6:42AM
JOHN
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 6:45AM
I'm not gonna jump on the thread locker or safety wire wagon right off, I have a feeling there's some amount of heat cycle expansion / relaxation of the gaskets... you'll want to snug down new gaskets at some point early on in their life maybe a couple times or more?
 
on those hard to reach bolts even the Stage 8 C-clips would be a bear to do a snugger with a BBF
 
I could do a snugger with a 3/8 combo wrench in about 6 minutes on the 351C 
 
has anyone ever gotten a set of header gaskets to last more than a couple months?
 
does anyone think it's possible to use a high rate spring loaded bolt set-up, or would the heat kill the springs?
 
bellevilles ?


Edited by Rockatansky - 03-August-2014 at 6:52AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 6:53AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

I'm not gonna jump on the thread locker wagon right off, I have a feeling there's some amount of heat cycle expansion / relaxation of the gaskets... you'll want to snug down new gaskets at some point early on in their life maybe a couple times or more?
 
on those hard to reach bolts even the Stage 8 C-clips would be a bear to do a snugger with a BBF
 
I could do a snugger with a 3/8 combo wrench in about 6 minutes on the 351C 
 
has anyone ever gotten a set of header gaskets to last more than a couple months?
 
The set I posted pics of were about 3 years old, no leaks, but only about 5-6K miles. Just saw on Powerblock today that Mr. Gasket makes a header gasket using dead-soft aluminum, looked OK just didn't give a lot of info on them.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 6:54AM
ARP 400-1105 and ARP 400-1106 are six point header bolts (0.750 and 0.875 lengths) that are pre-drilled for safety wire (also known as lock wire). They do not have the recessed hex head like some of the others, but since I can get a pair on now (non pre-drilled ARP header bolts) this should work. I can see putting the safety wire on in some of the locations being possibly problematic because of the space limitations. Otherwise a reasonable solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 8:34AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

I just saw on Powerblock today that Mr. Gasket makes a header gasket using dead-soft aluminum, looked OK just didn't give a lot of info on them.
 
Click Here to see these gaskets for sale, but it says that they are out of stock right now.
 
Click Here to see another seller that sells them, but it says that they are out of stock right now.


Edited by dave302 - 03-August-2014 at 10:32AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 9:21AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

This is another option to keep the bolts tight, just not sure of the quality:
 
Click Here to see these bolts for sale.
 
                                           


Edited by dave302 - 03-August-2014 at 9:23AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-August-2014 at 12:57PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

does anyone think it's possible to use a high rate spring loaded bolt set-up, or would the heat kill the springs?
 
Click Here to see this item for sale.
 
 
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

Bellevilles?
 
Click Here to see this item for sale.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkGubinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-August-2014 at 4:13AM
Weird. I've always run the Hookers. Never had a problem. They seal & stay tight when u us good reusable gaskets. I can get all my bolts in & out & change gaskets in the car no problem. And that's on both race cars. Sorry, just lucky I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-August-2014 at 3:38PM
ULTRA COPPER on ALL exhaust gaskets I have installed in the last 20 years!!
NEVER put an exhaust gasket on without it! You could also use a touch of ULTRA BLUE around the ports on the flange itself to ensure it fills any voids THEN with the Ultra Copper and a good gasket... no issues.
 
As for header bolts... I too have never had any issues with just bolts and lock washers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlachance112785 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-August-2014 at 8:03PM
Just an afterthought, are you using the Ford mounts, or Crites mounts. The Crites mounts drop the motor about an inch to the frame/crossmember. One of the primarys on the driver's side is pretty much resting on the crossmember. Which would make it ever more of a pain to get in. It seems the headers have clearanced themselves in a couple spots. For what it's worth, I used those Remflex gaskets, with ARP header bolts, and haven't had an issue. I know they leak a tiny bit, but it's no worse than what it was the day I bolted the headers back up. No Locktite, and no Permatex for me. 
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