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How much HP?

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Sam.u.el View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11-March-2012 at 3:21PM
So I have a 302 in my 72 gran torino and was wondering how much horsepower can I get out of it at the wheels without boring or stroking the engine? Also without a supercharger. So far I've been buying aftermarket parts for it from intake to fuel pump and have aluminum heads and cam next on my list. Also, will I need to change anything other than the pistons and/or crankshaft if I do decide to bore and stroke it? I know this is probably a newbie question but that's why I'm here. To learn from you all . Thank you in. Advance for reading and replying
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ilyes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-March-2012 at 4:07PM
you can squeeze around 400hp to the wheels, but first off, you need to get aluminum heads, the stock heads will lead you nowhere.

I would get a set of AFR 165, a rpm air gap intake, holley double pumper. 
I guess you will get new pistons? If so, get piston to get to 10.5-11 to 1 CR, aluminum heads let you get away with more CR than iron. 
A electronic dizzy would be a good investment. A cam with at least 550 of lift. 
About the bottom end, you won't need anything, just get a new set of bearing and a new oil pump. Being a 302, power will be high perch, you will have decent torque, but don't expect it to pull really hard below 3k.

You will have to run quite a bit of advance, around 14-16*, you can go to 36-38 total, more timing isn't necessary.
What will cost a lot is the heads, the rest is pretty cheap. 
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Sam.u.el View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-March-2012 at 7:37PM
Well so far my set up is a performer intake manifold from edelbrock with a 600cfm electric choke carb, a set of decent hedman hedders, dual flo pro exhaust system, high performance fuel pump, HEI distributor with some decent spark plug wires. Once I have enough money I'll be buying the heads and cam.

So are you saying I don't really need to change the crank or pistons if I stroke the engine? Would you recommend I stroke it to make more hp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote torkair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-March-2012 at 7:45PM
A stroker kit will come with a crank, rods, and pistons, and if you spend the extra money it will also come with rings, bearings, as well as being balanced.  A factory 302 block will be ready to split down the middle at near 500 hp at the crank so you may be better served by going with a larger engine and building that (I prefer M blocks and 460 blocks personally).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2012 at 12:11AM
A stroker kit will bring more torque, you won't see a big difference in HP number. Besides that, stroker kit are expensive (cheapest kit goes for $700 if I recall) and will require extra machining to clear the block.
You will likely have to change the pistons, if you want to get more compression, but that's not necessary, you can mill the heads/intake, use thinner head gaskets

As Torker said, you will be at the limit of the block, but if you don't drive like your life depends on it, it should last
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Blueoval76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2012 at 3:21AM
Ok here is my 2 cents since I was originally building a standard bore 302 then went to a 347 stroker. If you want the most out of the 302 you will need a different carb and intake as that intake you have will choke any aluminum heads and cam. I was going after 400hp on the stock bore 302 with TFS twisted wedge heads milled to 54cc, a custom roller cam by Ed Curtis, Performer RPM air gap, and a 750DP on top. I ended up getting a stroker kit and built that instead with the same parts as listed. I never got the standard bore 302 running before changing to the 347. Now I also agree that my 347 is at the limit of the block splitting and I keep the rpms down and so far only run it on the street without beating on it. If I was gonna do it all again I would have just built a standard 351W as they can handle 700hp. It cost me after all was said and done about 7K to build my motor but I also have alos of Show parts on mine too so its not just a basic motor. If you want to see it check out my progress thread here....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-March-2012 at 3:58PM
All this is really great info and advice and I appreciate it all. My goal is to have a car I can use as my daily driver but have enough hp to where I can take it to the strip every now and then, not a weekend warrior as I probably came off to sounding like that's what I wanted. My situation when I bought the 302 Block was I couldn't find a 351w or cleveland or 429cj to drop in it and I really needed something to put into my torino so I could have a car to use again. As A 22 year old, I chose the torino as my everyday ride if any of this makes sense? So I don't really want to go out and buy a bigger block and have all the money I've put into my 302 so far go to waste. But so far I'm getting I definitely need new heads and cam and possibly go with a mild stroke such as 306 or 331? Forgive me if I sound like a newbie or confusing. I'm honestly just barely learning all about the classic cars and never really got into the hobbie up until a few years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-April-2012 at 7:31PM
So I'm, coming back because I'm just about ready to buy new heads and a cam for my 302 and was wondering how much hp/torque is the limit for the stock driveshaft on a 72 torino? When I change the rear end ratios will I need a new driveshaft or should I be fine with the stock one I have now? Also if I ever decide to bore and stroke my engine to say a 331 will the heads/valves/cam need to be changed again or would I be fine in that are? Any and all responses would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-April-2012 at 12:09AM
the driveshaaft will be fine, don't worry.
About the the stroker kit, you will know Piston To Valve clearance only when everything is installed. If clearance is on the tight side, you will have to notch the valve. The rest will be fine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote torkair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-April-2012 at 1:36AM
You'll split the block before the driveshaft becomes an issue.  New u joints would be a good idea though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-April-2012 at 3:33AM
Originally posted by ilyes ilyes wrote:

the driveshaaft will be fine, don't worry.
About the the stroker kit, you will know Piston To Valve clearance only when everything is installed. If clearance is on the tight side, you will have to notch the valve. The rest will be fine

how do you notch a valve for more clearance?never heard of that

I have heard of notching the pistons,which is cutting a relief  in the piston to clear the valve when fully open,but you have to check the piston whether they can be notched or not and they can only
be notched so much before it weakens the piston.

your better off knowing what the lift of your cam, valve size and and specs on heads and give this
info. to the techs where you want to buy a stroker kit and they can set you up with the correct pistons with the stroker kit so you won't have clearance issues





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-April-2012 at 1:41PM
Okay great responses. I was a little worried I wouldn't have gotten any. But that makes me feel less stressed about a future issue with the heads and cam I decide to buy if I ever decide to bore and stroke the engine (which I probably will). I recently read spectre made cold air intake possible for carbureted engines that actually looks like it works. Has anyone had any expirience with that at all or know someone that does?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-April-2012 at 3:56PM
my bad, I meant piston lol, it would be pretty interesting to notch a valve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-April-2012 at 2:39AM
yes you have to make sure you word things correctly when giving advice especially to someone with little or no experience as you could really screw them up. granted  most would figure out a valve can't be notched but if it was something else.

that is why if i'm not sure about something I will leave it to the experts to answer as I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving the wrong advice
the good thing is i caught this one but Like I said it's not always good to notch pistons unless it is very minimal as it can weaken the piston depending on how much metal is at the top and what type they are
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-April-2012 at 3:32PM
Okay, so there's a small change in plans. I found this website fordstrokers.com and read a lot of great things about the owner/builder woody. I'm sure some or most of you have heard of him. Anywho, I decided to buy one of his short block 331 stroker engines with a cam and heads package and transfer most of my current parts onto the new block to hopefully make 400hp. Now my new concern is whether or not I need to make a lot of mods/improvements in the rear end or front suspension to handle the hp? Thanks in advance!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Blueoval76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-April-2012 at 6:19PM
Very good choice to go with Woody!! I dont think there will be much to improve since your already talking about the gear change. Make sure you talk to Woody about your torque convertor as you are gonna need one to match your combo. Also Make sure you at least run a Performer RPM intake on that motor and you will most definately need a 750 double pumper on top! It will be a great lil combo in the Torino trust me cause I love mine!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-April-2012 at 9:19AM
Awesome! Thank you very much. Yes, I've read nothing but great things about him and his wife helped with a lot of questions I had too. Such great people! I'm not too worried about the torque converter, I had my trans rebuilt with a new higher end torque converter before I put the new motor in. The stock suspension was what was worrying me now but I'm happy to hear it should handle fine. Thank you, I'll be sure to put the intake and double pumper on my "to buy" list. I should have enough time to save for those two things by the time woody is done with my engine. I have to admit, I'm so darn excited! Any other suggestions I should consider??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-April-2012 at 10:21AM
well f you are getting heads that is a Long block not short block. so with him building the motor with heads you won't have to worry about piston clearance.
Are the heads complete? including rockers? if so are they roller rockers as that is what I would want in an engine like that. if he can't make over 400p with a 331 stroker then there is something wrong.
Anyway I would make sure your driveshaft has new U joints before you slam that beast in gear.
the rer should be fine and you already mentioned your trans was rebuilt .
Do you have headers? gotta let a motor like that breath with dual exhaust and 2.5in diameter pipe
you don't want to choke it off with 2in
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-April-2012 at 1:36PM
Well I said short block because I'll have to put the heads and roller rockers on myself to save a little money. Unless that's still considered a long block? So that's the third time I've seen u-joints mentioned when making more power on a stock suspension so I'll be sure to do that now. I bought headers when I got my current motor but they aren't the more expensive ceramic material. And have dual exhaust with 2-1/4in tips but no X or H pipes. Is that fine or do I need them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-April-2012 at 4:05PM
 I would get an H or X pipe,what ever fits easier.If your pipes run straight back from the headers then the H pipe will b the easiest as the X pipe requires bends.
Eastwood makes some header coating you can apply yourself and cure with the engine heat but you will have to wait till you have the engine in and dialed in and do the break in procedure on the engine then you could unbolt them and do it or pay more and take them to be ceramic coated which is anywhere from $225-300.

The Eastwood product is the cheaper route
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sam.u.el Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-April-2012 at 4:59PM
H pipe it is then! I spent enough to have the exhaust installed so the H pipe sounds cheaper. Thank you for the header coating link! I never thought about finding coating and doing it myself. That'll save some money also so thank you! Speaking about break in time, what would you consider a good break in? I'll be sure to upload pictures to show some progress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-April-2012 at 5:41PM
I would talk to Woody and get his recommendation for break in
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