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How-To, prep and paint info

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    Posted: 10-April-2015 at 5:08PM
With all the good info I was receiving on this topic I figured I would make it a sticky topic for all to see anytime to get some BASICS info for a reference. Feel free to ask questions and get some input from our resident Professional Paint Guys!
 
 
This was my dilemma and start of the thread...
The body shop wants another $1000-1500 from me on top of what the Toll Truck is going to pay to repaint Dee's Ranger. I don't have that to spend on her paint!
THAT deal was with me doing ALL the strip down work AND sanding the truck with 320 grit. I mean I was removing EVERYTHING! Lights, bumpers, weatherstrip, door pieces, wiring, grill, trim etc... I had to make it so all they had to do was the remove the doors to paint he jams, final prep, mask, spray and put the doors back on. I was even pulling the bed and painting between the cab/bed myself too.
 
So if I have to do all that work anyway... I might as well take this opportunity to do my first full paint job! I can do the work. I am not afraid of tackling this but I need some help. I don't know enough about it all so I put together some info and questions.
 
So questions I need some answers/help.
'01 Ford Ranger all factory original paint.
 
1. What bondo type product should I use for the few areas I need to do some small ding/dent work to?
2. When putting on the filler, do I need to remove the paint down to bare metal in those areas for the filler to "stick"
3. DA it with 320 (what the painter told me he needed it to be) on all the surfaces and red scuff pad the jam areas?
4. When sanding and IF I burn through to metal I will need to prime it?
5. Prime over just the worked on spots or prime the whole thing in prep for paint after I sand and scuff?
I think these next 2 need some info from me before you answer...
The color is going to be a Gloss Metallic Black. Is there a single stage that does not require Clear? My thought is NOT taking the doors off and just spraying the jams best I can with them on. So doing a color and clear in the jams then doing the body and spraying the color and clear again would cause overspray in the jam area?
6. What primer?
7. What type of paint? Is there a single stage that does not require clear coat?
8. If I need to do clear what clear?
 
I am tackling this so help and input to explain this to me in the simplest terms is GREATLY appreciated!
 
Johnnie?
 
 
 


Edited by Regul8r - 12-April-2015 at 10:02AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2015 at 5:40PM
Filler brand is a matter of personal preference, classic bondo, or something like rage filler.
Yes, you want filter on bare metal.
Yes, sand the entire car. scotchbrite the jambs. Make sure you wash the car very well before you sand. otherwise you are pushing dirt/grease/wax/etc. into all the little scratches the sanding creates.
Prime any burn thru and any bondo spots, sand to blend and then prime the whole car. Having the car one consistent color makes coverage more uniform. (not chasing shadows thru the paint)
Spray the jambs first, you can mask the jambs or clean up any minor overspray in the jambs when you are done.
As far as primer,paint, clear... Best to stick with a single brand.
Since you are going with a metallic, modern paint, plan on using clearcoat. This will also help with colorsanding and buffing. (some older lacquer systems were available as single stage metallic, but that doesn't appear to be the case with modern paints)
Before you put paint on the car, practice/experiment on some test panels. Get the feel of the gun and learn how it sprays and how to adjust it.
 
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2015 at 5:48PM
Thanks!
Is 320 and the scuff pad good? Do I need to sandbwet sand the primer and if so, what grit?
Anyone else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2015 at 6:37PM
i'm here-- randy answered a lot! on sanding for the filler i'd go with 80 grit, then use 320 for sanding the paint/ primer. the main thing when sanding the old paint blow it off and look for any shiny spots left (shiny spots =bad adhesion for new paint/primer!) what randy said about priming the whole thing for color hiding...true but if you are going with black that shouldn't be an issue! it's hard for me to explain all this in just a few words of text, carl you have my # feel free to call me with any questions, it's way easier for me to explain in words while talking! call me "old school" if you wish, but that's what i am old school LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2015 at 6:43PM
oh, i forgot... i don't recommend wet sanding the primer or the bondo! makes it too smooth and moisture can get trapped in the bondo and you will have "chicken pocks" later under the paint (small groups of moisture bubbles under the paint, that will come back every winter!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67gt5003119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2015 at 7:26PM
Hey Carl, I know THE perfect guy to answer all your custom paint questions! I think his name is Jeff M or something....

sorry brotha, I couldn't resist
1; don't use cheap materials, it could give you problems down the road. Evercoat is a good brand and not too pricey. Bondo brand is available in quarts if you don't have too much to do. Mix ratio of filler and hardener will depend on temperature and humidity. (The hotter the temp the less hardener. The ratio is about 2% hardener normally) Maybe someone who does bodywork in your neck of the woods can help with proper mixture.
2; you will need to completely remove all paint and primer in the area you need to fill. Be sure to roughen up the metal, use 80 or 120 grit on a DA or by hand to strip the area down to clean metal. Be sure to strip it down a little farther beyond the dent to allow the outer edge of the filler to stick to metal.
3; don't use a DA to sand the repair down. Use a 6 inch rubber block to get the filler nice and flat. Use 80-120 grit dry to sand the filler, once it is flat and feathered around edges sand it with 320 dry to get the larger sand scratches out.
4; if you go through to the metal you will have to prime the area. If possible, use a catalyzed primer, not a rattlecan. It will hold up better.
5; to keep material costs down prime the areas where you filled dents only. The best way is to use a primer sufacer on the whole truck and sand it again, but that can be costly. A gallon of catalyzed primer is about $60-$70. That should cover the whole truck in 2 coats.
I would wet sand the entire truck with at least 320. Wouldn't hurt to go 360-400 grit for less sand scratches. Your goal is to sand the glossy-ness out of the paint. After that a good scuff sand maybe. Prep is one of the biggest jobs in painting. The better and more thorough the prep, the better the finish.
6; scuff the jambs real good. Use a degreaser to get any hinge lube off. Tape off latches. Use color coat minimally, don't apply it heavy. 2-3 coats of clear. Let it tack up between coats. It is easy to hang runs by putting heavy coats on. Start with a few mist coats and follow it up with a medium coat. Let this dry for 3-4 days then mask the jambs off and spray the outside.
7; there are some single stage metallic blacks. They will be more difficult to spray because you have to balance the metallic "flop" (too heavy and the metallics will sink in the color, making it look darker, dulling the metallic effect. Too light and they stand up too much making the color light) and control the gloss. If you hang a run the metallic goes with it, making a mess. With base clear you have some forgiveness. You can spray the color coat and work on the "flop" without worrying about the gloss coat, getting the metallic to lay down right. Then you can clear coat and concentrate on just the gloss. I find two stage painting easier on some colors.
8; different painters use different products, some are very faithful to their brand. They are used to the characteristics of the product. I have sprayed many different brands the most forgiving has been matrix brands followed by PPG. Matrix is less expensive.
I would recommend a HVLP (high volume low pressure) gravity feed gun. Air pressure at or about 25-30 psi. With the gun about 10-12 inches from the surface the spray fan pattern should be about 8 inches wide or so. Moving slow enough to get good coverage but fast enough to keep it from running. You won't get complete, thorough coverage on one coat, it will take 3 coats to get good coverage. Overlap your prior pass by half. I.E. you lay down a line of paint, overlap the next line by half and so on. Every pass you overlap by 50%. Make sure your gun is squared up on the panel. Both ends of the fan should be the same distance from the panel.
Always start by spraying edges and wheel wells first then top to bottom, keep the air hose behind you all the time! Don't let it hang in front of you and drag it in your paint. Be patient, there is no rush to get the job done. Keep the gun moving at the same speed and distance during the spray. Watch how the paint lays on the surface. Too much orange peel, or dry splotches, slow down and allow the paint to flow a little more. There will always be orange peel in a fresh paint job. Don't try to make it like glass, you will only hang runs.
Many painters have their own habits and tricks. Hopefully more will chime in and offer up good advice. My way is not the only way. I guarantee I will learn something new here too. good luck! It takes many paint jobs to learn how to lay it down. My very first spray I was so nervous I forgot to put the hardener in the paint. Color started fading after 6 months!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-April-2015 at 8:07PM
^^^yes!^^^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 4:19AM
FUNNY! or maybe K**L?
AWESOME advice!
THANKS, I WILL be doing this and there is a painter at the craft shop who will help me with it all too.
The info you all have provided is priceless and will help me, and others, as a great reference!
As body work is no where near my area of expertise I only know some of the basics and can handle this with the advice and input given!
 
Ok, I got this...
1. wash and clean the truck WELL
2. Sand the body down with 320 and scuff the jams
3. sand body work areas down to bare metal and scuff with 80-120 so filler adheres well
4. regular store bought Bondo is OK
5. use sanding blocks on the filler, and finish the filler with 320
6. prime the entire truck, (I still have the primer Andy and I used on Lola) especially the bare metal and bondo'd areas (2 coats)
7, Wet sand the primer or not? and with what grit?
8. Base coat clear coat(whatever product I can get from O'Reilly's)
9. Jam it (base and clear?) wait a couple days(so taping does not hurt the paint)
10. tape of the jam areas(why we waited a couple days) spray the whole truck, couple/few coats(1st one is light). No sanding needed between coats or clear?
 
TWO final questions (this round anyway)...
1. does the paint give the ratios on the can or is there a specific general rule of thumb?
I have thinner and hardener.
I will take some pics of what I have and post it up here to see what I have and if it is all compatible.
2. does anyone have a link to a good How-To or explanation of how an HVLP gun works and how to adjust it? I can turn knobs and stuff but without KNOWING what they actually do it is useless and the blind leading the blind(garbage in garbage out) type of thing!
 
 
TA DA! DONE!?
 
 


Edited by Regul8r - 11-April-2015 at 4:26AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 5:28AM
carl,
 7) not! (wet sand) dry sand with #320 --#400
10) no sanding between coats.  only if more coats are needed and the last coat you put on has dried overnight or longer

final two questions (yeah right LOL)
1) maybe??? or ask for a product sheet for that paint, it should contain the mix ratios, dry times, air pressure for application,etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 5:42AM
THANKS!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 5:51AM
#8) check summit. they have a "house" line of paint that isn't too bad.
Final? question #2) Get the gun and play with it on some old parts or panels. read the instructions, and play with the settings until you are familiar with the gun and spraying technique.
Make sure the gun is cleaned well between primer, base and clear coats. Take it apart and make sure it is CLEAN. HVLP guns are more sensitive to dirt/dried paint residue than the old Binks guns, but they spray much better.
Moisture trap and filter on the compressor, pressure regulator before the hose, small regulator at the gun to measure/control air. (line pressure in the hose 40 or so, knock it down at the gun to 25 or so) This minimizes pulses in the airflow. Pulses will "tigerstripe" the metallic.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 5:56AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Moisture trap and filter on the compressor, pressure regulator before the hose, small regulator at the gun to measure/control air. (line pressure in the hose 40 or so, knock it down at the gun to 25 or so) This minimizes pulses in the airflow. Pulses will "tigerstripe" the metallic.
 
Yup I did clean it well between stuff.
 
I have a regulator on the gun plus a filter attached to that.
I did not know about the lower line pressure and pulses. Will check that and adjust accordingly.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 5:59AM
One more thing, DO NOT use hoses that you used with an in-line oiler for air tools. If you don't know, don't use them.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
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no inline oilers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 6:34AM
if the water trap ever got forgotten and  filled up , sludge will end up going down the hose! same problem as the oilers on a hose. (ask me how i know)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67gt5003119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 10:44AM
John, do you dry sand everything? I find that sandpaper clogs real fast and doesn't last as long and large particles get stuck under the paper and make gouges in the primer. Wet sanding washes sanding residue away and chunks of debris.
X2 on the reliable, filtered air supply! Buy a gun cleaning kit too with all the brushes and wrenches to take it apart. I wouldn't buy ORIELLY paint, summit is a better quality. Only use hardener that belongs to the paint/clear. And only use proper reducer. I.E. urethane to urethane.
X2 on the practice panels!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 10:58AM
rob, i don't dry sand everything (LOL you make that sound like i'm stubborn or something, actually my ex-wife might agree on thatLOL) but i'm not. you can't sand self etch epoxy primer like DP-- it with ball and clog! so i spray a couple of coats of sandable primer surfacer over the DP so you can fill and level, and i sand it down to almost the DP, then i mix up some DP with 25% reducer to make a sealer to spray over that. no touch just tack rag it off and spray base coat on Thumbs Up i do wet sand the clear later for buffing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67gt5003119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-April-2015 at 11:10AM
I could never agree with a wife or ex..I would have way too many enemies and probably get kicked off the site!!
Interesting way to prime, I will have to give that a try. I use a non chrome etching primer followed by a high build primer (2-3 good coats) and long block it a few times, depending how straight I want it. When I'm ready to spray color I use a primer sealer, tack and go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2015 at 8:12AM
carl: here are a couple of videos that really cover the basics and are easy to follow with examples! (might be a good idea to copy over to the body work forum with a sticky*** since some of these questions come up from time to time !!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_9WQmicyJU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2015 at 8:14AM
JOHN
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90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
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68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2015 at 10:02AM
updated the topic and made it a sticky in the Body Work Forum
 
HUGE THANK YOU to our resident Professional Paint/body guys for all the assistance in info!


Edited by Regul8r - 12-April-2015 at 10:03AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2015 at 10:40AM
can one of you add the info about
Types of paint, compatibility, what goes over what, what CANNOT be used over what?
That type of info
 
Also I know that painters have their preferences and brand loyalty but maybe some advice on different brands?
 
O'Reilly's has NASON and DuPont Chroma?
What is the Summit brand?
How about the Dupli-Color system they have out now?
etc..
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2015 at 11:16AM
^^^ Dupli-color ^^^^
Dupli-color system is a (semi) modern lacquer. It's pre-mixed with thinner, you use it straight out of the can. It's a base/clear system and they have metallic and such for it as well. My thunderbird has white on it, without the clear, and it has lived outdoors for 8-9 years that way. It scratches easier than modern paint, but no worse than old-fashioned lacquers. Maybe not showcar finish, but inexpensive and works well
Summit's paint is made for them, and it's not bad, a good general-purpose paint like the old delstar/delthene paints. (Don't remember who makes it for them.)
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonVan42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2016 at 8:33AM
New here, so not sure I'm in the right window.
Am repainting the Differential on a 68 Torino, someone told me the original was not Gloss.
I don't want to go with Flat. Would Semi-gloss be correct or Satin finish. Eastwood does not show a
semi-gloss, only a Satin

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