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INFO: 72 - 79 Gauge Clusters and Wiring

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 1:46PM
Originally posted by 72torino... 72torino... wrote:

I believe I have that, I have a splice with the red green wire and off of it I have two wires running to the tach and then another that goes to he ignition switch I believe?

Is there a way to see if my tach is not operating properly

When you say another wire....do you mean off the tach? Does your tach have two wires or three coming off it? 

Your circuit should be like this.... 

Ign swtich>--resistor wire--red/green wire into tach>--TACH--<red/green wire out of tach---- positive coil post.


Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72torino... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 1:54PM
I have a two wire tach. One side says IGN the other side says coil. If the wiring is the way you have it described I don’t have it correct. I’ll work on that tomorrow and report back. Very thankful for your help. Wiring can be quite frustrating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 2:44PM
Alright, here is what I wound up doing...

I used the underhood key on power wire (I think it was originally the optional idle solenoid power), hooked to the + coil post. I put the red wire from the dist to the + coil post. I then used the "I" terminal on the starter solenoid for crank power, and hooked it to the + coil post. 

The original ignition/tach wire from the car is now disconnected from the coil. 

The car starts perfect and runs great. Just no tach operation now. I will have to send the tach out to be converted at some point. 
Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 6:57PM
Originally posted by 72torino... 72torino... wrote:

I have a two wire tach. One side says IGN the other side says coil. If the wiring is the way you have it described I don’t have it correct. I’ll work on that tomorrow and report back. Very thankful for your help. Wiring can be quite frustrating
you need to cut the wire outside of the firewall running to the + of the coil, connect a wire to the cut end coming from the firewall to the tach like in the diagram, the other wire from the tach will connect to the other end of the wire you cut running to the + of the coil! the "X" is showing the cut in the original wire... basically the coil power is running inline through the tach!!! ign will connect to the firewall side of that cut wire the coil one of the tach will go to the remaining wire to the coil (check that you don't have the tach wires reversed???)


Edited by californiajohnny - 15-October-2017 at 7:05PM
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 7:02PM
if it's wired like this and the tach dies usually the engine won't run! i say usually!!! i converted my dash and the car ran but the tach didn't work! i replaced the tach with another one and it works Shocked
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2017 at 12:08AM
An alternative approach to that tach wiring is simple bypass the wire at the Tach connector in the harness under the dash.  This cuts the tach out of the circuit.  In place of the 2 wires passing through the connector 1 of the wires can be "repurposed" as a voltage tach sensor wire.   This requires replacing the tach with a new style voltage tach.   I have the tach output of my MSD box integrated into the engine wiring harness now.   All the extra ignition control signals, including the tach from the MSD box (6AL-2 programmable), is a separate harness that follows the old harness in the engine bay and passes through the firewall through the hole where the old EGR control harness passed through.   I removed all the EGR harness.  (72 doesn't have this EGR circuit and will require mods to the firewall.)

This how I'm handling the tach in the near future.

I have a decal kit to redo the face of the tach to convert to 8K and plan to send my tach to rocketman in the near future for the conversion.  He tests and calibrates the tach.   I called and spoke to him about his conversion and the test equipment he uses.     

Pic of this conversion

Diagram of teh circuit described

Hope this helps.


Edited by BackInBlack - 16-October-2017 at 12:50PM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2017 at 12:10PM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

[

My circuit didn't work... not sure why... on paper it should have worked. 

I'm going to try your relay trick next....

Edit -   Well I tried the relay route (which in reality is the same thing as my previous idea just with a relay), and it did not work.

This distributor just won't work properly unless the positive wire is hooked directly to the coil. I am guessing the electronic module must need to sense both sides of the coil to work properly. It will fire on crank, but not stay running after that, if the positive wire to the dist has it's own separate power. But hook that wire to the positive coil, and it works fine. 

I guess at this point, I'll just have to bypass the factory tach and have it converted at a later date. Cry
 
I am not too familiar with the RTR MSD distributors, but it sounds like you may correct about the direct connection.  I did a lot of research and bottom line is that it's really tough and a ton of hassle to keep the factory tach.  It's just so much easier to convert it to a three wire voltage reading tach, since it's connected in parallel and has no effect on the ignition whatsoever. 
 
And even if you can get a in series Amp sensing tach to work properly, how long before that 45 year old instrument craps out?  At least with the conversion you get a modern accurate tach movement.  I know John mentioned the Tach adaptors too, but I read mixed reviews on them working properly. 
 
It costs a few bucks, but I stand by that the Tach conversion is the best and easiest way to have a non-stock ignition and have a factory appearing tach that is reliable and accurate.  It sounds like the bypass of the tach is the best thing until you can get it converted.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72torino... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-October-2017 at 6:49AM
Just wanted to thank you all for the assistance I was able to get my tach working the other night.

This website has been a great resource
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forddude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2017 at 2:42PM
BIG THANKS to everyone that helped assemble this detailed info and the members that have contributed to helping troubleshoot. I’m considering upgrading to the sport cluster. I understand I’ll have to add some wiring for the tach, amp, and change the oil sensor.

I assume the best way to test the printed circuit is to hook up the pigtail to a car battery? How do I remove the clock adjustment knob? The adjustment pin spins as it should and I am able to adjust the clock, but want to disassemble the cluster to restore but cannot figure how the clock knob is removed and don’t want to end up breaking it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdaugette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2017 at 2:47PM
I am thinking there is a tiny screw on the clock shaft. Take a look, it’s tiny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forddude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2017 at 3:27PM
Originally posted by bdaugette bdaugette wrote:

I am thinking there is a tiny screw on the clock shaft. Take a look, it’s tiny.

Yup there is and is just snapped the shaft trying to break loose that tiny screw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACH429 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2017 at 4:29PM
I have a tach and gauges dash from a 72 Torino that I would like to install in my 76 Torino that currently has the standard dash. Looking at the posts on this thread I think my cat has a six pin connector in it now. Has anyone done this conversion? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2017 at 5:37PM
it can be done
i think the 72 connector has 2 less wires?
 i swapped a sport dash into my 74 but it was 74 to 74 and i had to swap positions on 2 or 3 wires in the connector
JOHN
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forddude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2017 at 11:07AM
Originally posted by MACH429 MACH429 wrote:

I have a tach and gauges dash from a 72 Torino that I would like to install in my 76 Torino that currently has the standard dash. Looking at the posts on this thread I think my cat has a six pin connector in it now. Has anyone done this conversion? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.


Read the first page of this tread, it will help you understand the difference of the two clusters you have. 72 uses a 12 pin connector, 76 uses a 14 pin connector. So the 72 cluster will not plug into your 76 harness. I’d imagine you would have to cut off your 76 wire harness plug and splice every wire to the 72 connector plug (assuming you have the 72 plug that connects to the circuit board). If you don’t have the harness plug for the 72 cluster, you might want to find one.
I’m NO expert on this, but might be a lot easier if you simply source a 76 sport cluster.

Edited by forddude - 30-December-2017 at 11:09AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2017 at 11:59AM
does the car need the ammeter shunt wire added in or does it already exist in the 1976 factory harness?
 
and the 72 uses the 3 wire tach that is wired in series to the coil + ...
 
besides possibly tracing, repining and splicing in a 12 pin plug to suit the 72 cluster, those are the 2 biggest hurdles i can think of
 
a work-around that may help make it happen is convert the ammeter to volts, use a 2 wire tach and white gauge face overlays so the fonts all match. you may need both the 72 and whatever year the tach is (for the odometer openings to be in the right place) overlay kits but that's the least of it
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forddude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2017 at 2:33PM
MACH429, there is a member selling a 75/76 sport cluster right now on the forum! It might be an easier option for you, check it out...

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/gauge-cluster_topic16747.html

...and PM me if you end up wanting to sell your 72 cluster ok, thanks.

Edited by forddude - 30-December-2017 at 2:37PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACH429 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2017 at 3:18PM
Thanks to everyone for the information. I'm going to pull out the standard cluster and see if I can trace out the wiring. Converting to volts will probably be my best option. Your help is much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2017 at 7:13PM
but is there an ammeter in the stock cluster,
or just the ALT warning lamp?

Edited by Rockatansky - 30-December-2017 at 7:30PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2017 at 1:58AM
The stock cluster has no ammeter so there is likely no shunt. The easiest way would be to use a voltmeter. Rocketman can convert an ammeter gauge to a voltmeter.

Also the early cars used two wire Tachs and then later cars used three wire. Three wire Tachs are easier to deal with and Rocketman can convert them too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2017 at 5:54PM
oops i thought it was the other way around on the tach wire count
 
2 wires is early, straight through in series
 
3 wires is late, power / ground / signal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-January-2018 at 3:04PM
Hi people,

Neill here.  I am in New Zealand. My project car is not a Torino but an Australian Ford Falcon that I am using as the basis for a Madmax tribute car.  When my attention was drawn to the dash cluster in my car I decided to investigate producing a repro printed circuit as they are not available.  Just like the Torino circuits from the same era the Aussie Falcon circuits are prone to delaminating, cracking, peeling etc.

It was a steep learning curve.  I also had to find a manufacturer who good make them.  Since reproducing the circuit for my XC I have made them for 7 other Aussie cars mostly Fords.

I have been looking for more to do and have hooked up with a chap in Florida who was sent me his dash cluster from his standard(without tach) dash.
 
I'm most of the way through the process as can be seen here:


To give you an idea of the finished result Here is one of the ones I've done before, it is for a ZF & ZG Aussie Fairlane which was produced from around '72 to '75.


Hopefully I will play a part in keeping some people's cars on the road.


    


Edited by NeillNZ - 24-January-2018 at 3:19PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-January-2018 at 3:40PM
That is really helpful.   I'm using multiple clusters to get good parts from...  the most problematic part is that flex circuit.   They all start to de-laminate after 40+ years of heat and use.

The other item I find extremely difficult to find are clear gauges lens.  They all tend to yellow with age. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-January-2018 at 3:51PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

That is really helpful.   I'm using multiple clusters to get good parts from...  the most problematic part is that flex circuit.   They all start to de-laminate after 40+ years of heat and use.

The other item I find extremely difficult to find are clear gauges lens.  They all tend to yellow with age. 

This was my solution.... 

Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-January-2018 at 4:02PM
Neil, welcome! this is great! there are a few different versions through the years as well as standard and sport with tach
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-January-2018 at 12:23AM
This is great work Neil!  If you ever end up doing a sport cluster, I'd be on board for one. How much do these printed circuit cost?
 
Sal, that's really great work.  I guess if I my print circuit ever gets too rough, I always could follow your example.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-January-2018 at 2:04PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

This is great work Neil!  If you ever end up doing a sport cluster, I'd be on board for one. How much do these printed circuit cost?
 
Sal, that's really great work.  I guess if I my print circuit ever gets too rough, I always could follow your example.


I thought the sport cluster one was already available? I must admit I could not find one with a Goggle search.

Not sure on cost yet.  I'm doing all the design/layout work for free because I just want to help and I enjoy it.  I will be using a manufacturer here in NZ because they make a good product and are excellent to deal with. The first run will be just 10.  Those 10 will be posted to a chap in Florida along with his cluster that I have here.  Once we have all the costs worked out we will come up with a price but I'm guessing it will be around the $100 mark, maybe more because of the small volume.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-January-2018 at 2:07PM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

That is really helpful.   I'm using multiple clusters to get good parts from...  the most problematic part is that flex circuit.   They all start to de-laminate after 40+ years of heat and use.

The other item I find extremely difficult to find are clear gauges lens.  They all tend to yellow with age. 

This was my solution.... 



Nice work. No problems with cracking or peeling!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-January-2018 at 3:02PM
you may be thinking of the white plastic housing for the sport clusters ...they are just now being reproduced by a company recently but not the PC board that i'm aware of?

JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-January-2018 at 8:36PM
I have finished the layout for now. Still deciding about how to attach the snaps for the connection to the instrument Voltage regulator, hence the tiny holes.

The next step is to have a 'mech' made. It is made without the copper and without the mask layers. It is used to test fit to the plastic housing.  That way if there are any errors and hence adjustments to be made I will have saved the cost of setting up to print the copper and mask layers.



Here is the scan:



This scan was used to trace the mask, missing the centre as my scanner is only A4/Letter size.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2018 at 3:16AM
i think the snaps are the same as the ones on a 9 volt battery?
JOHN
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
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