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INFO: 72 - 79 Gauge Clusters and Wiring

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NeillNZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2018 at 9:56AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

i think the snaps are the same as the ones on a 9 volt battery?


Yes they are and I have a supplier for the individual terminals.  Just not sure about attaching them. I have not yet found a rivet that will work.  I will try some tests with regular solder and silver solder.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2018 at 12:18PM
the top piece of the snap should have an extended center shaft that is crimped through and into the snap part? i'd think your supplier would have the other part as well as the tool to crimp it?
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2018 at 12:38PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2018 at 1:20PM
i realize this is a larger type snap but i'd think you should be able to get something similar for the smaller snaps???
General Tools 1265 Snap Fastener Kit with 6 Fasteners
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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NeillNZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2018 at 10:55PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

i realize this is a larger type snap but i'd think you should be able to get something similar for the smaller snaps???
General Tools 1265 Snap Fastener Kit with 6 Fasteners


Thanks. I have asked the manufacturer Keystone Electronics Corp. They do sell some rivets and die tools but it is not obvious which ones are compatible with he snaps they make. Hopefully they will come back to me with some useful info.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-January-2018 at 11:06PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

would this stuff help?

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-21351-Electrically-Conductive-Defogger/dp/B000HBGKWE


Hmm Not sure. Interesting stuff. I'll continue to investigate the rivet method for now. Good to know about that stuff though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-January-2018 at 2:55AM
Is the voltage regulator snapped on to the PC board? I tried everything in the world to get mine off and it wasn't coming off. I wound up having to solder my wiring to the regulator.
Sal Mennella
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Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-January-2018 at 5:14AM
yep, snapped on like a 9 volt battery
New 1969 77 Ford Voltage Regulator Instrument Cluster Galaxie Torino Maverick
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-January-2018 at 8:21AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

yep, snapped on like a 9 volt battery
New 1969 77 Ford Voltage Regulator Instrument Cluster Galaxie Torino Maverick


Mine wasn't like that. It was permanently attached to the pcb.
Sal Mennella
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75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-January-2018 at 9:33AM
??????? really?
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-January-2018 at 9:43AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

??????? really?

It's very possible I'm just retarded! I tried to get it off and didn't see any way. I wound up just cutting the copper section around each terminal out of the PCB and the soldering my wiring right to that. 
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewok1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-January-2018 at 2:24PM
That made for a good fix , I have been working with Neill on the PCB remake ,he is very talanted gentlman , i hope to see all of the cluster PCB reproduced , over the next year or so depending on interest of these PCBs 
ANDY
GET IT GOT IT GONE !!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-January-2018 at 4:15PM
sal LOL we all have those retarded days Embarrassed
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-February-2018 at 12:07PM
Going to collect the mech sample later today.  I will post some pictures of the fit to the dash cluster/frame.

Meanwhile I have been assembling some documentation. 





What I've found interesting is that almost all of the circuit numbers and wire colors are identical to those in the Australian Fords of the same era. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-February-2018 at 12:03PM
It has been a while since I last updated. I have been making the most of the good weather here. Shed/workshop/office build is coming along nicely.  One day soon I'll have a place to work on my car..

Here is version one of the mech:

All of the apertures line up to the frame, so no changes to make there. What I'm not happy about however is that it does not sit flat in the middle, see here:

and here:

At first glance it would appear that I've made the circuit too long.  Actually it is exactly the same as the original. It too sits up in the middle:


So while I do like to copy the original as closely as possible I really don't like how it sits up, so I've cut 2mm(almost 0.1") out of the centre.  Version 2 of the mech has been ordered.

Here is the new artwork:

I'm still working out how to attach the battery snaps. This has been a challenge.  The latest idea is to rivet them but because the circuit base material is so thin and I cannot source any suitable washers I'm having a back up plate made up. This plate will go on the back of the circuit to strength it where the rivets go through. I'm having it made from 0.6mm(0.023") thick fibreglass.


It will mount like this:

I should have the version 2 mech in about week. If that fits well I'll go ahead with the first run of 10 units.


Edited by NeillNZ - 11-February-2018 at 12:05PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewok1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-February-2018 at 12:13PM
looks as good as the original fit , although i know you want it to be flat in the center area ,
 if the original lays the same , I do not expect any problems with it , rivet area should  be good with extra enforcement, did you get the snaps all figured out , Andy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mkshelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-February-2018 at 1:12PM
That added bulge is to allow the material to shrink in cold temperatures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-February-2018 at 2:58PM
Originally posted by mkshelton mkshelton wrote:

That added bulge is to allow the material to shrink in cold temperatures.


Thanks for the info.

That makes sense.

I have found that the fibreglass does not tend to shrink nearly as much. Same as when it is heated, right up to when the resin softens it keeps it's shape.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-February-2018 at 5:12PM
yes many factory PC boards are like that even on other makes of vehicles that use this system. are you making a hard PC board? you mentioned fiberglass...
 sorry i haven't figured out on the snaps... what size are they referred to as? maybe that will help in the search i'm stumped on where to look Confused
maybe someone else here may be able to help????


andy: is this the cluster you got from me?
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-February-2018 at 8:46PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

yes many factory PC boards are like that even on other makes of vehicles that use this system. are you making a hard PC board? you mentioned fiberglass...
 sorry i haven't figured out on the snaps... what size are they referred to as? maybe that will help in the search i'm stumped on where to look Confused
maybe someone else here may be able to help????


andy: is this the cluster you got from me?


Yes the repro circuits I make are indeed fibreglass. It is the thinnest available 0.15mm or 0.0059".

I have tested a circuit that is 414mm(16.3") long by freezing it in the domestic freezer in my kitchen and then heating it in the oven. It does not change length as far as I can tell.  So it is much more stable then the original plastic, plus the copper is bonded so well that you can solder to it and it will not lift. The downside is that is not as flexible and will break of flexed back and forth a number of times but that is not something that will happen during normal operation.  The radius on the opening where the dash loom connector goes is gentle enough that the plug can be put in and taken out many times with no problem.

The snaps are "junior" size type 261 and 269. I have a bunch of them now along with two different length rivets. I will post some pictures soon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2018 at 4:03AM
hard rivets, copper?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2018 at 10:25AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

hard rivets, copper?

I have had some success with the eyelets just now. I'm using an automatic centre punch, like this:


I will or I will have a mate machine the tip so that it produces a nice roll over. Something like this:

 

The spring loaded hand tool from the eyelet manufacturer is $1300!!!! Hence making my own.

Remember that only by following instructions, can we hope to maintain a successful highway program.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2018 at 11:06AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

hard rivets, copper?
hey would you know where maybe neil could check to find the back sides of the small 9v battery size rivets??? i have no clue where to search to help him.....
 you can get flat backs for regular size snaps but i'm not sure what size the smaller ones are or where to look?


Edited by californiajohnny - 12-February-2018 at 11:07AM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrewok1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2018 at 11:23AM
JOHNNY , I spoke with NEILL Friday he said he had that under control ,WAS MAKING A TOOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2018 at 1:41PM
This works and the snaps are held securely but it is not very tidy.  It will be better once the centre punch tip has been machined.

Sorry, crappy phone photos:




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2018 at 2:40PM
Wow, awesome work Neil!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2018 at 12:37PM
I'm now happy with the riveting. A friend has machined some tooling for me:


The one on the right on this picture has been done with the new tooling. Actually I went a bit far in this example(hit too hard):


I received version two of the mech and I'm still not completely happy with the fit.  I'm not sure how it is for you guys in the 'States but for my Australian Ford there has been a history if ill fitting and poor quality reproduction parts.  I'm trying to make this the best I possibly can.

So I chopped up the mech into 4 pieces and placed it on the frame, joined it with sticky tape, scanned it and modified the artwork.

I will order a 3rd mech. Probably don't need to but I would rather not risk ordering a batch of circuits that are not quite right. So when I receive the 3rd mech I'll test fit it and if that is right I'll order the first run of 10 circuits.

Here is the chopped up version 2 mech on the frame. I have blacked all the edges so that I get a hard edge when scanning it:


Here is the scan:


And the modified artwork. Can you 'spot the changes' LOL?





Edited by NeillNZ - 17-February-2018 at 12:39PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 7T9_Tbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2018 at 2:36AM
No, but I think I see Waldo...LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeillNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-March-2018 at 8:27PM
The design has been finalized. The Ford logo and part number has been removed.  I have requested a quote for 10 and for 20 units.  Once that comes in I'll order the first run.

Here is a picture of the 3rd and final mech. Very happy with the fit:



 


Edited by NeillNZ - 04-March-2018 at 8:28PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dionvc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-March-2018 at 4:49PM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

That is really helpful.   I'm using multiple clusters to get good parts from...  the most problematic part is that flex circuit.   They all start to de-laminate after 40+ years of heat and use.

The other item I find extremely difficult to find are clear gauges lens.  They all tend to yellow with age. 

This was my solution.... 


Hey I'd like to know what products you purchased to do this!  I prefer this solution.  I have a 1978 sports gauge from a ranchero gt that I'm putting into my 1978 cougar XR-7 and I have no clue if the current printed board will work so I'd prefer to skip over all the troubleshooting and wire it up like this.

Thanks.
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