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INFO: Adjustable strut rod - the holy grail

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-November-2015 at 7:16AM
It looks like a OEM strut rod that is cut/threaded using a tie rod coupler.  It still has that big rubber deflection bushing.
 
Interesting.   Should we start another thread for NASCAR style suspension or more track oriented like those NASCAR rear trailing arm setup from another thread.
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madmaxtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-November-2015 at 11:51AM
Im in for two if we order.
                             Allan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-November-2015 at 12:07PM
Great Allan, thanks.  I've tried to PM everyone I know on the forum.   I'm not sure how much more I can do to get the word out.  

I'm thinking we should pull the trigger on this in another week.  With your 2x order we have 6 total.  There is such a small demand for these cars; having any manufacturer that is willing to step up to build an aftermarket part is a huge help.  At least the littleshopmfg.com guys are willing to fill this niche.  Every other shop has basically said "no" and I've called a number of these shops over a few years to get them to fab some of these parts without any luck.

-John




Edited by BackInBlack - 18-November-2015 at 9:09AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-November-2015 at 3:25AM
I am excited about putting these on my car.  I like the fact it'll be an easy swap and uses the OEM strut rod. Even though my front end is all new, I have noticed that I still get some slop in the front end under certain conditions and it feels like to me it's the strut rod movement causing the lower control arm to get all wonky.  I think this will really tighten up the front end and keep the geometry much more consistent.  The adjustability of the strut rod doesn't seem to be a huge plus in my books since you can get the similar movement with the upper arm.  I guess the only big advantage to an adjustable strut arm would be the ability to run lots of positive caster without pushing the front wheel too far back in the wheel well. 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-November-2015 at 8:50AM
Here it is!    Order time!   Details Below.   Canadian order may be shipped USPS with special shipping instructions per request to handle those duties/fees plus an additional $15 shipping (for Vince).   Go to the website and place the deposit for the order.   Those that are on the fence, you have a little time to decide whether or not to join on the group buy.   Regards John.
 
Committed      
John          
Allan (2x)  
Andy
Vince
JimW (received no confirmation)

=============================================
The factory strut rod and nut are retained. This will serve as a replacement for the factory rubber bushing to eliminate slop in the front end. We've been using these bearings for years in various applications. They are PTFE lined and replaceable for about $25 each. They rarely see their service life on most applications.  This joint would work great with both factory upper control arms, and our caster-added upper control arms.  The exact dimensions may change slightly after I make a first article.  But visually it will still mostly look/work like this. The solid models are enough to continue with getting our group-buy number figured out. 
Ingredients:
spherical bearing
machined bearing cup, powdercoated or zinced
lasered/machined frame washer, powdercoated or zinced
misalignment spacer 1
misalignment spacer 2
3 - 5/16-24 bolts
3 - 5/16 mil-spec washers
3 - distorted thread lock nuts
 
Pricing for a pair will be as follows, based on how many people buy: 
1            375
2            365
3            355
4            345
5            335
6            325
7            315
8            305
9            295
10          285
11-15      265
16-20      245
21+        225

Terms:
I can make an item on the website whenever people are ready. I'm thinking: 
- deposit of $100
- Flat rate shipping of $20 to lower 48. 
- Group-buy deadline Dec 14
- Payment requests for balance sent Dec 15  
- Estimated manufacture and ship by Jan 11, pending balance has been paid









Edited by BackInBlack - 18-November-2015 at 8:52AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-November-2015 at 12:53PM
I've been trying to feel it but I'm not really there. also some slight concern with the change in pivot location / geometry, and the 3 screws holding the bearing in place. I'd like to be more confident that the system is bind free, I hope it works as well as anticipated but I can't pull the trigger on this design with these unknowns
 
adjustable strut rod length is a big part of the concept for me, that first crossmember that holds the strut bushings is hit on my frame & I was hoping to use the adjustment to avoid having that pulled...
 
darn darn darn Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-November-2015 at 1:46PM
I understand...just depends what your trying to do with the car.  If you plan on building a race car; more track than street then adjustability is required.   You could easily modify this setup to make it adjustable either with a new rod; it doesn't cost that much to get the OEM strut rod cut and threaded and use a threaded rod found at speedway and/or shim this setup with washers or the like.  

For me; I'm looking for mostly street with some autocross fun.  You really dont need that much adjustability for street.  You just need to fix a little of the geometry, the slop, and binding problems in the stock setup.  Here is an article for reference where they fixed the stock setup (springs, upper a-arm, sway bars, shock, tires, etc) and went from .73 on the skid pad to .91.  Typical off-the-shelf stuff.  Pretty damn good for a 70's car.  Its enough to put a smile on my face :-)  

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/hrdp-9901-project-monte1go-suspension-upgrade/

I like the design.  It puts the pivot closest to the OEM location than any other option Ive seen.   I look at this where this part gives me more options where I had none before.  I dont have access to all the CNC mills,  etc. to make my own parts.  So now I have a part to help fix the problem where before I had nothing.  

As more parts become available hopefully more people will fix up these old fords thus increasing demand which makes these after market manufacturers wake up and take notice.

Just my 2.5 cents...    You still have some time to think it over.



Edited by BackInBlack - 18-November-2015 at 10:08PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-November-2015 at 3:08PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

I've been trying to feel it but I'm not really there. also some slight concern with the change in pivot location / geometry, and the 3 screws holding the bearing in place.
darn darn darn Beer
 
It's my understanding there will still be the factory nut on the rod.  So if worse case scenario that three bolts let go, wouldn't the nut still keep things loosely in place?  At least it looks like it would to me from the diagrams...
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-November-2015 at 3:56PM
Perhaps research the reliability and customer feedback of the RRS part for mustangs from which this is based.

http://rrs-online.com/us/strut-rod-adjuster.html

I looked and didn't find anything of consequence.

BTW...all the fasteners are better than grade 8 hardware.   170,000psi.   Thats pretty damn strong.  This is the same level of hard used in performance rod bolts.   I would expect other parts to fail before they fail.  


Edited by BackInBlack - 19-November-2015 at 1:51AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2015 at 2:22AM
Check out this video to see the deflection in stock rubber strut rod bushings.  This is on a Mustang, but it gives an idea how much they move.  I am pretty sure that clunking nose this car has is also what I am getting with new rubber Moog bushings.  It sure feels like it anyway.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2015 at 12:52PM
but should they be moving that much?
notice that accel is nothing compared to brake. the caliper follows the rotor downward with rotation as pressure applies, the lower ball joint/control arm is moving rearward pulling hard on the front rubber bushing... is the lower arm made of taffy? is the pivot bolt worn or are the holes wobbed out?
the vid poster blames the rubber bushings for 'deflecting under braking causing loud clank noise', and none of the comments question the condition of the bushing in the lower arm. I think in that case 'upgrading' the strut bushings would be covering a more pertinent issue & add stress to the strut rod & chassis bracket, those bushings look new & rubber doesn't make a 'loud clank noise'
 
maybe it is a simple as the bushing sleeve being missing?
FWIW in this vid @ 8:30 he shows the sleeve assy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPmxrJAnYZk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2015 at 2:26PM
Now think about loads/movement while braking in reverse...
This is what bothers me about the bearings being discussed, one of the pictures shows a snap-ring retaining the bearing...
When braking in reverse, strut rod pushes forward into the bearing, load is then on a snap-ring.
 
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2015 at 2:32PM
I assumed the clanking noise was from the rubber compressing and causing the washers to contact the mounting area, but it could be the LCA bushing. It's hard to tell, but I don't think that the car is accelerating all that hard, but it looks like he is braking hard.  I swear I can feel this movement in my car under certain conditions, and everything is new in the front end.  I don't know where else you could get much movement.  Bottom line is this front end design isn't the best for keeping suspension geometry.  I did a bunch of reading on Mustang forums today and it seems most people report a big improvement when going to a spherical bearing or heim joint on the strut rod.  The only complaint I really came across was some complained of increase road harshness.  I think this would be less on an issue with Torinos being body on frame cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-November-2015 at 2:46PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Now think about loads/movement while braking in reverse...
This is what bothers me about the bearings being discussed, one of the pictures shows a snap-ring retaining the bearing...
When braking in reverse, strut rod pushes forward into the bearing, load is then on a snap-ring.
 
 
I saw that pic, but the design of the part for the car doesn't look like it uses a snap ring.  To me it appears that the bearing is held by the frame on the back side and the cup with three bolts on the front.  Plus there will still be the factory nut on the end as well.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-November-2015 at 12:18AM
The strut arm is also called a braking arm.   If I can find the reference I'll post it.   Makes sense thinking about a rolling load on a tire/wheel; where does the impact energy go if you hit a bump?  The tire and suspension absorbs most of the energy.  It was designed to do that.  Imagine how your torino would ride with steel wheels and no suspension.   The force from braking is a direct load pulling the LCA rearward.   I can't imagine this bearing being worse than having a lower A-arm in terms of reliability.  Many people replace the lower a-arm rubber bushings with poly or bearings.   Granted the forces are pulling on the side of the bushing rather than push/pull on the bearing of this design.  However, this bearing was designed for these radial loads.   (My simplistic interpretation)
As for the strut arm:
An adjustable arm can be easily fabbed for those who want that feature with this bearing.   Cut and thread the end of the OEM strut rod near the LCA.  Get a threaded tube like these
 
Insert a threaded rod into the threaded tube listed above.  Install some locking nuts and install in this strut arm bearing.  Seems like an easy way to create an adjustable strut arm.   This part is also flexible enough to use if someone already has an adjustable rod setup.  Like Randy's previous pic posting showing a threaded rod. 
 
Seems like a win/win for everyone.   



Edited by BackInBlack - 20-November-2015 at 4:20AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-November-2015 at 2:15PM
I wish I could but I haven't worked in several months and finances barely allow me to put gas in the Ranchero right now. It's a fun car but can't afford fun at the moment.
I also am in the camp that would prefer new strut rods, although I would buy this without them if I could right now and then try to find new rods later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-November-2015 at 12:18AM
It has a snap ring; same design as the RRS.  The designer at the shop was looking at other design options that may eliminate the snap ring.   Snap rings aren't necessarily a weakness.   They are used in may appications; piston pins, u-joints   The finish is powder coating, not enough people to warrant zinc plating.

Russ,  Sorry to hear about the lack of work.   I certainly understand, I was there myself a number of years ago.  Glad to hear you can still hang onto your Ranchero.  Hope things turn around for you soon.

-John 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2015 at 1:24AM
Any last minute orders to get in the group buy:
http://www.littleshopmfg.com/deposit-strut-rod-isolators-for-ford-cars/

It fixes the rubber bushing problem, but you would have to shim or make your own rod to make it adjustable.

-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2015 at 1:11PM
How many orders do you have so far John?  Did anyone ever put this one the facebook page?
I guess you must be close to finalizing things soon? I'd rather pay sooner than later with the CDN dollar dropping day by day.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-December-2015 at 1:24PM
I didn't put it on facebook.   Sorry, I'm not much of a facebook user.   Actually just started an account.

Feel free to post to get the word out.   

We have total of 4.    We had 6 but 2 dropped out due to personal reasons.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2015 at 8:28AM
That is too bad we're down to 4.  Are they still willing to do the job for that few people?  I just found the facebook group and joined it the other day.  I will try to figure out how to post the info on there.
 
Update:  I got it posted on the facebook site.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 12-December-2015 at 9:01AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2015 at 9:22AM
Yes the order is still on...they are being very gracious and helpful.   Definitely a good shop to work with.  I highly recommended them from my experiences trying to organize this effort.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazyelite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-December-2015 at 5:42PM
Hi, new guy here. Haven't really introduced myself yet. I have made the deposit for the isolators. Already have their UCA's. Originally intended for a 72 Ranchero, but that looks like a 10 year project. Everything now is going on a 76 68k Elite that'll hopefully stay as a driver, not a long term project.

Thanks, Craig
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2015 at 1:53PM
Guys, sorry I have been MIA on this.I'm most likely going to miss out, no choice at this time due to financials. Been working my backside off to just keep my house right now due to my wife's health issues. I've pretty much killed my top loader to boot so I'm now looking at a very expensive spring...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2015 at 4:17AM
Currently at 7...manufacturing is underway.  Stay tuned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1976grantorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2015 at 4:52AM
I'm currently deployed and just found out about this. I contacted the little shop and they let me jump in on the discounted price! Wished they would make tubular lower control arms that had a 1in recessed cup for the spring to sit in. This would give the front end a 1in drop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2015 at 6:01AM
Glad you could get in on this buy!
 
Prior we had 7 so the pricing worked out as such
$315 per kit plus 20 to ship
- 100 deposit
- 20 prepaid shipment
Total = $215 balance  
 
I think 1 more makes the total 8 and that drops $10-15 bucks in the fee.  
 
Looking forwarding to getting this suspension all sorted out.
-John


Edited by BackInBlack - 22-December-2015 at 6:03AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2015 at 7:14AM
John I emailed Leslie today about the deposit for mine, just waiting on the email from them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-December-2015 at 6:22AM
Nice to see we are getting a few extra orders!  Can't wait to get mine installed! It's really great there is a company out there willing to make custom parts for our cars.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 23-December-2015 at 6:23AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2015 at 1:25PM
"FYI, due to the holidays my laser order (which has the 3 holed washer plate for these kits as part of it)  is going to be coming to me late so I don't believe the 11th is going to happen. I'll do my best to get the laser blanks machined and the kits shipped out as soon as I receive the laser order though.  Just thought you could relay this to the guys if you don't mind. "

A little delayed due to holidays.
-John


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