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INFO: The Coil Spring Thread

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unlovedford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2015 at 9:22AM
I may stick with the 1/2 coil off. The added weight of the 460 should bring it down a little lower that yours, which is where I'd like it to be.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul100ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 6:52AM
OKay, I know nothing of suspension, I admit that up front. Assuming my 75 has original coils, and I think it does, what coil suggestion would you have to get about 2 inches of lift in the rear? I know wagon coils would work, is there a part number for that?Beer What about spacers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 7:24AM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul100ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 9:43AM
Thanks bro...Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 11:12AM
Spring #coil i.d.bar diainstalled heightloadspring ratefree heightends    yearmodel 
82235.650.6610115018616.18pphardtophdconstant 77mark V 
83075.660.619.7590715815.49pphardtopstandardconstant6.6 40076torino 
83915.660.621099318115.49pphardtophdconstant6.677ltd 2 
85315.660.639.7594718314.94pphardtophdconstant6.6 40076torino 
85395.670.599.7596314316.5ppwagonstandardconstant6.6 40076torinobird
85435.650.6710.5126319716.8pphardtopstandardconstant 79mark V 
85455.660.619.75105014416.93pphardtopstandardconstant6.677ltd 2 
cc8015.430.649.7587019214.5ppranchero variable5.0 5.8 6.677ranchero 
cc8035.430.759.75133030514.19ppwagon variable6.6 40076torino 
cc8075.430.649.75100018015.25pphardtop variable6.6 40076torinobird
cc8115.430.7510.5135031514.78ppwagon variable5.877ltd 2 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 11:19AM
Those are MOOG springs for the rears
8223 will give you an inch or so without beating your kidneys to a pulp (good, but stiffer ride)
8543 will get a couple inches lift, but MAY be a little stiff.
Both are Mark V springs, so they fit in and raise your rear due to being for a heavier car, and having a slightly taller intended installed height.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 11:37AM
I love you guys, but take a few minutes to read the threads to get the info you are looking for.
 
Here is my info from page 5...
REAR SPRINGS
  Free HTInstall HTRate/Weight
72-79 ALLCC80114.59.75192/870
WagonCC80314.199.75305/1330 
75 torinoCC80715.25??180/1000
73-76 WagonCC811 10.5315/1350
 
 
 
The 811 is what I put on Lola it raised the rear way up!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 11:47AM
The reason I didn't use that spring is it's a cargo-coil. I don't like the way a cargo-coil feels when driving the car hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 12:11PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Those are MOOG springs for the rears
8223 will give you an inch or so without beating your kidneys to a pulp (good, but stiffer ride)
8543 will get a couple inches lift, but MAY be a little stiff.
Both are Mark V springs, so they fit in and raise your rear due to being for a heavier car, and having a slightly taller intended installed height.
 
The 8543 from your list shows the same installed height and is 100lbs less than the CC
I would say that is pretty cool overall
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-June-2015 at 5:54AM
Ordered a pair of the 8531 springs for the rear and a pair of the 80090 springs for the front of the base Formal. Price for all 4 was $150 and some change shipped. Good deal I thought, and am excited to see how they will sit on the car with a 460/C6 and a half coil cut out of the front. I am a wee bit concerned that the rear will sit high, but if so, I can install some lowering springs. I want a nice low stance with a firm ride and decent handling.

Edited by unlovedford - 23-June-2015 at 5:56AM
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-July-2015 at 1:59AM
Does anyone know how low the 80090 springs would sit with 1/2 and 1 full coil cut in a '72 with a 460/C6? Thanks.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-October-2015 at 6:10AM

STUPID QUESTION Embarrassed.............

When installing the CC811 rear springs, WHICH END IS UP??? Geek
 
Thanks!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-October-2015 at 8:54AM
I installed mine with the coil cluster on the bottom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2015 at 5:01AM
According to Advance, "This Moog Coil Spring: Variable Rate (Part No. CC811) should be fitted with the tighter coils at the bottom and the thinner coils on upside."
That's how I did it on mine too but when a buddy asked me if that was the correct way, I couldn't answer for sure.... NOW I CAN! Beer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2015 at 7:17AM
I didn't check I just assumed they were like landrover springs haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2015 at 2:11PM
I just put mine in the same way the old ones were.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n2fordwagons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2015 at 12:48AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:


I made an Excel sheet that has all the Torino springs Moog lists for Torinos 72-76. Year catagory in the chart is the first year the springs are used, sometimes they are used in other years as well. The standard and CVPI Crown Vic springs are listed as well. If you look at the springs, it looks like the 72-73 cars have lower (11" approx) load heights vs 74-76 (12" approx).

I also included a small spring calculator chart on the side of the chart. You can use this to compare using different springs.

Use this page to find out what your "stock" Moog replacement spring would be for your Torino:

http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm


Find what the load rate of the spring your car has stock. So we'll use a 1972 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension - spring 8170. Stock this sits at 11" load height and has a 360 in/lbs rate. Now lets compare this to the 1974 HD spring because it has the heigher 411 in/lbs spring rate. So use the load weight from the spring (this is the approximate load your car puts on the spring) and enter this into the first blank box on the calculator. Then use the spring rate and free height of the new spring you want to compare it to.

In our example, we'd use 2375 load weight, 411 spring rate, and 17.16 free height. And the result is 11.4. So this spring will sit higher than the stock spring at the same load weight. So, although we'd get a stiffer spring, the stance of the car will suffer.

I hope this makes sense. Of course I am not sure how accurate these load weights are, so this can only be used as an estimate to help choose a spring.

If we can get some accurate measurments on the front suspension of the Torino, there is the potentional to get accurate load rates for an individuals car. There is a formula than with those measurements than can figure out if there is x weight on the front wheels, then the front spring will have y weight exerted on it.

Torino_Springs_2.xls
 
I'm trying to find a way of lowering my '79 T-bird using off the shelf Moog springs, so I won't have to spend $400 - $500 on lowering springs from Eaton or PST.  So, I figured I would use the formula on your spreadsheet, to determine the final loaded height of a comparable spring, then compare that to the loaded height of the springs that are currently installed in my car.  The previous owner rebuilt the suspension, installing new springs.  I'm assuming he installed what the "book" called for, for a 79 T-bird with a 302 with A/C.
 
 
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how spring rates, etc will have affect the ride.  So, I was wondering if you can confirm how the following will affect my ride.  I don't wanna throw some springs on there that will bounce me all over the place, or be way to harsh.  My car will be a driver, not a track car.
 
Existing front springs should be 8334 - 411 spring rate w/ 2090 load, free height 17.16.
 
Proposed front spring options (some have 4.039 inside diameter compared to our 4.04 diameter)
81468 - 625 spring rate w/ 2314 load, free height 13.703 (should give 1.7" drop)
8650 - 432 spring rate w/ 1720 load, free height 15.51 (should give 1.4" drop)
8654 - 374 spring rate w/ 1780 load, free height 16.27 (should give 1.4" drop)
 
 
Existing rear springs should be CC807 - 180 spring rate w/ 1000 load, free height 15.25.
 
Proposed rear spring option
CC805 - 187 spring rate w/ 770 load, free height 14 (should give 1" drop)
 
For the rear springs, I found other options that have pigtail ends, but they have different inside diameters.  Will that matter, since the ends are pigtail?  Are the pigtail ends the same diameter, regardless of what the inside diameter of the springs are?
 
The inside diameter of our rear springs are 5.43".  I found a pigtail spring option that has an inside diameter of 5.05", an option that is 5.53", and an option that is 5.562" diameter.  Here they are:
 
8649 (5.05") - 107 spring rate w/ 630 load, free height 17.27 (should give 1.8" drop)
5399 (5.53") - 166 spring rate w/ 850 load, free height 14.12 (should give 1.6" drop)
5377 (5.562") - 123 spring rate w/ 838 load, free height 15.8 (should give 2" drop)
 
One thing to note, the 8650 front option and the 8649 rear option are matching springs from a late 80s / early 90s Ford LTD Crown Vic.
 
Any input or opinions is greatly appreciated!
 
 
 
 


Edited by n2fordwagons - 16-October-2015 at 3:53AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2015 at 2:54PM
Crown vic/panther chassis rear springs have the wrong size pigtail for torino chassis cars.
Free height doesn't mean as much as installed height, load rating, or spring rate.
You can deviate slightly from stock inner diameter in front without problems.
If you sort thru the list for similar inner diameters, bar/wire diameters, and spring rates, it would get you in the ballpark. I would stuck to applications intended for ford (lincoln, mercury)65-78 fulltime or torino chassis (72-79) cars as they all share the same front suspension, and installed heights should be comparable. A car with a different suspension may have a different control arm length, or a different leverage ratio affecting the spring.


Edited by Big Bird - 16-October-2015 at 3:10PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2015 at 3:43PM
if you have new springs in there and it rides like you want it now, but lowered?
Makita 9557PB Electric 4-1/2&quot; Paddle Switch Right Angle Grinder NEW Cutoff Tool
4" makita grinder! Wink that's what i use!!! makes quick work of the spring, figure where you want to cut and cut perpendicular to the direction of the coil at one end (for the front coils) the rears have a pigtail (smaller coil) on both ends IIRC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n2fordwagons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2015 at 8:25AM
Thanks guys.  Some clarification, I'm looking for at least a 2" drop.  Unfortunately, the Ford applications won't get me in that ballpark.  The most drop I'm coming up with is 1", based on the calculations.
And cutting won't help me either.  I've always heard that rule of thumb is to remove no more than 1 coil.  I'm no stranger to cutting coils.  I've done it on a couple of cars.  The most drop I've gotten out of removing 1 coil is maybe 1 1/4".  Plus, you can't cut the rears since they're pigtail on both ends.
 
So, I'm thinking outside the box here.  Trying to use the handy dandy calculator to see if I can make some other springs work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-October-2015 at 5:25PM
jeff, you could cut and recoil just the one pigtail end, by heating only the part that needs coiled, then after it's not glowing orange anymore gently cool it in used motor oil, not water as water can cool it too fast and over temper it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-October-2015 at 8:16AM
If you are happy with the stock springs and don't want to increase stiffness, I'd go with the Moog 8650's since they are pretty close to your stock rate.  Now keep in mind, although you have the specs on the stock replacement Moog springs, these are not necessarily the same as OEM spring specs.  They are probably close, but the aftermarket tends to simplify springs (ie OEM might have had 10 options, while aftermarket may only offer 3 versions).  That calculator is only a guideline, since the load rate is assumed, and obviously every car varies with options and/or modifications.  I think you'll have to install these springs than check out the ride height.  You'll probably end up having to cut them to get it as low as you want to go though, but I can't see it being more than 1 coil with those springs.
As for the rear springs, I am not sure about the pigtails on other size springs.  I'd stick with stock size unless you order it from a place that will take them back if they don't work.  Keep in mind that the calculator won't work very accurately for CC springs as they are variable rate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n2fordwagons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-October-2015 at 9:00AM
Thanks Vince.  On the fronts, that's what I was thinking.  I'm assuming the 81468 with its higher 625 spring rate will give a much stiffer ride?
 
On the rears, I realized that I don't have the variable rate springs.  I've got constant rate springs, which should be the 8539 (spring rate of 143).  Using the calculator, I found the 6435 (spring rate of 141), that should give me about a 2" drop.  There were a few more with varying degrees of drop.  The problem is I have no idea what the inside diameter of the pigtail ends are.  I can't find any specs that provide that info, they only provide the inside diameter of the main body of the spring.  The inside diameter of the spring is very close (5.67 vs 5.57).  I happened to find that Summit Racing sells a pair of these springs for $23 shipped, so I took my chances.  Crossing my fingers that the Pigtail ends are close.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-October-2015 at 3:49PM
Originally posted by n2fordwagons n2fordwagons wrote:

Thanks Vince.  On the fronts, that's what I was thinking.  I'm assuming the 81468 with its higher 625 spring rate will give a much stiffer ride?
 
 
Yes, they would be significantly stiffer than a 400 in/lb spring, but nothing crazy stiff.  If you're happy with your springs now, then stick with that rate since cutting them increase the spring rate.  Ride is subjective, I run a 710 in/lb spring which is stiff but I like it.  Zero float ever and very flat in the corners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n2fordwagons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-October-2015 at 2:37AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by n2fordwagons n2fordwagons wrote:

Thanks Vince.  On the fronts, that's what I was thinking.  I'm assuming the 81468 with its higher 625 spring rate will give a much stiffer ride?
 
 
Yes, they would be significantly stiffer than a 400 in/lb spring, but nothing crazy stiff.  If you're happy with your springs now, then stick with that rate since cutting them increase the spring rate.  Ride is subjective, I run a 710 in/lb spring which is stiff but I like it.  Zero float ever and very flat in the corners.
 
That's what I thought.  Thanks, I'm learning.  I went with the 8654.  They were about $50 cheaper than the 8650.  They're a little softer, but I'm fine with that.  I'll probably end up cutting them a little, which will help stiffen them up.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2015 at 1:49PM
Jeff, one other thing I forgot to mention.  That spring calculator shows the difference in the compressed spring height, NOT the wheel height.  If the load numbers are remotely accurate, the springs would compress to a shorter height.  However, there should be more drop at the wheels due to the lever ratio of the control arm.  This ratio is unknown for our cars (at least I can't find it).
 
So I would recommend installing the spring uncut first, before you decide how much to cut off. Unfortunately, this trial and error method is the best we can do if you don't want to pay for custom springs.  Even Eaton springs state that their custom springs sometimes need to be cut after install to get the proper stance. 
 
Good luck and keep us posted.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 23-October-2015 at 1:51PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote galvarado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2015 at 2:22PM
I'm not sure if this information is redundant or even revelant.  I've got a 76 Gran Torino two door hard top with a 400 engine and C6.  I just installed Moog 9046 springs up front with the Monroe severe service shocks.  15" rims with 235 60 15 tires up front.  And the wheel well lip measures 26.5" from the floor.  I had been running the big block springs from Dearborn classics.  I have no idea what the rate on those springs are but the height has come down significantly.  Almost a 2 inch difference.  Again, this is with a 400 engine.  Most I've seen are either 351W, 351C or big blocks in this thread.  The air shocks had to go so I used Moog CC811 in the rear with KYB shocks.  The rear wheel well lip now sits at about 28 3/8".  That's with 275 60 15 tires in the rear.  The ride is firm but not harsh at all.  I still need to drive the vehicle quite a bit more to get a better feel for it.  But handled and felt quite well on the test drive.  A big improvement over what it had.  And no issue with the stock length shock topping out paired with the CC811 rear coil springs.  So far.  I've also got a set of Moog 80090.  I plan to drive on the 9046 for a while, then swap to the 80090 and see how they compare in regards to ride height, handling and comfort.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote galvarado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-December-2015 at 3:15PM
Correction.  I installed Monroe  severe service 550011 shocks in the rear with the CC811 springs.  Not KYB. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2015 at 2:45PM
Galv, that feedback is exactly what is great about this thread. It helps others, so thanks for the input.
I'd love to clean up this thread as it's gotten to 24 pages but feedback from everyone is what one of my goals was.


Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RAPTOR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2015 at 3:04AM
Well just took Mean Green for the test drive and WOW !!!!!!!! It rides 100% better with those New shocks Bilstein hd  and  CVPI  HD moog  80090 Coils . The car stays flat on cornering and going over bumps or dips in the road  its stays true to the road and does not FLOAT anymore !!!  Thanks Andy and Vince and everyone that posted what they thought after they did the same install . It made my make my choice that much easier and glad i did it . The car stance is just what i wanted to it went up a little over 1 1/4 " or so i didnt measure it . My original 44 yr old coils were sagging low . I have 351 4v  A/C 4SPD so the weight of that work perfect with these coils the way she sits . 

Edited by RAPTOR - 16-December-2015 at 3:06AM
1972 Torino Sport 4Spd Q 351c
1996 Bronco XLT
2010 SVT Raptor
2003 H2 Hummer
1977 CB 750 Cafe Racer
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