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INFO: The Coil Spring Thread

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Torinogts73c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torinogts73c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2016 at 2:17PM
What is the wire dia. on the monroe springs? Curious to know how they compare to comp. suspension rear springs on my 73 Sportsroof.
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2016 at 3:22PM
The more I read on this thread, the more cornfused i get lol   my 73 q code formal roof has the comp susp, how are these springs with a set of decent kyb shocks? I'll have the comp susp front and rear sway bars. Not lookin to carve the canyons, just want a nice ride and not wallow all over the place with some light spiritied drivin around these ky back roads. My plans were to transfer springs and sway bars onto one of the fastback bodies i have or maybe onto another formal roof if I can buy the one i have my eye on. Anyone have this setup and how would you describe it?
Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2016 at 3:59PM
Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

The more I read on this thread, the more cornfused i get lol   my 73 q code formal roof has the comp susp, how are these springs with a set of decent kyb shocks? I'll have the comp susp front and rear sway bars. Not lookin to carve the canyons, just want a nice ride and not wallow all over the place with some light spiritied drivin around these ky back roads. My plans were to transfer springs and sway bars onto one of the fastback bodies i have or maybe onto another formal roof if I can buy the one i have my eye on. Anyone have this setup and how would you describe it?
LOL you and me both Confused FWIW i have stock? springs in my car cut in the front spacer in the rear, bigger bars 1 1/8"  and 7/8" kyb gas shocks, poly everything, box rear arms, rides good, corners well Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2016 at 7:20AM
Originally posted by Torinogts73c Torinogts73c wrote:

What is the wire dia. on the monroe springs? Curious to know how they compare to comp. suspension rear springs on my 73 Sportsroof.
 
I measured the springs as follows:
 
Moog 8531 - 0.63" approx. 6 coils total
Moog 8307 - 0.61"  approx. 6 coils total
1972 OEM HD - 0.61"  approx. 6 and 1/2  coils total
 
I'd be very interested in the 1973 Competition springs specs.
 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2016 at 7:31AM
Originally posted by MrSmog MrSmog wrote:

The more I read on this thread, the more cornfused i get lol  
 
This thread has become huge and is a bit overwhelming.  It's great in that many have posted their experiences with different spring setups but it doesn't really give anyone too much direction on what to put in their car unless you kind of have an idea of what you are looking for.  I have done a lot of the data compiling for this thread but most of what I have relates to 1972 as this is the only year I have the OEM specs for.
 
However, we can pretty much summarize things like this:
 
Stock setup, with stock ride height for cars WITHOUT competition suspension:
 
Use Moog replacement springs - used Rockauto.com and look up your car and springs.  You may have to trim (cut) the front springs for proper ride height as some will sit too high as installed
 
Competition suspension:
 
There is NO replacement springs that will have same specs as the OEM Competition springs.  If going for OEM specs, would have to custom order springs.  Using Moog replacements will result in much softer front springs, even if you order the heaviest versions.
 
Improved handling (firm ride):
 
Moog 80090 CVPI springs (typically cut 1/2 - 3/4 coil)
Moog 8307 or 8531 rear springs (8531's more firm)
Some have used CC (cargo coils) springs, but I personally think variable rate springs are not ideal for good handling
 
Stock like ride (for cars without completion springs) but lowered
 
Use Moog replacement springs, but cut front for desired ride height through trial and error.  Alternatively, order custom springs with stock spring rates.  To lower the rear significantly, custom springs are the only option.
 
Improved handling (firm ride) and lowered
 
I know this is what a lot of people here want, and ultimately custom springs are the best bet for this.  Something in the range of 600-750 in/lbs from and 160-170 in/lbs rear. 
 
 


Edited by 72FordGTS - 20-September-2016 at 4:37AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2016 at 8:54AM
We need to distill some of these pages into  "user guide"  
Like what Paul did with the instrument clusters.  
Springs set for fastback/sedan, wagon, etc for ride, performance street, track,
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2016 at 4:20PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

We need to distill some of these pages into  "user guide"  
Like what Paul did with the instrument clusters.  
Springs set for fastback/sedan, wagon, etc for ride, performance street, track,
 
 
yes, good idea!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-September-2016 at 4:28AM

Starting a user guide is a good idea, but we also need to keep this thread alive so people can post real world results.  We need a new thread for a user guide and this thread should only have data, not people posting about the springs they have used.  The results from this thread can be updated into a user guide as people try new springs.

Right now most of my data is for 1972 cars, but give me some time and I can compile all the factory springs for the later cars too.  I already have spread sheet with all the current aftermarket springs available for our cars (there isn't much selection). I'd be more than willing to make a user guide as my time allows.  I do have a bunch of other data on my computer too that's not in this thread.

The bottom line is though, these cars are not Chevelles and we have limited spring selection for those that just want to swap in a coil.  The aftermarket springs offered by Moog and others are NOT the same as OEM springs and are much more limited that OEM.  Ultimately, for lowering these cars, it comes down to cutting the springs through trial and error.  Same goes for performance, there really is limited choices if you want to improve over factory springs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-September-2016 at 5:44AM
Agreed....I would prefer approaching the solution with preferred spring rates then in a box next to it (like a spreadsheet) see part numbers or alternative parts.   If there isn't a Moog part...then its just blank or "custom". 
 
Front coils isn't that much trouble.  Pretty standard dimensions and easy to cut to the right height.  The rear springs are the problem with a pig tail size that can't be crossed or substituted from other cars.
 
Perhaps limit the "table" to ride height on one axis and performance level on the other axis.  Just ideas.  Don't we have a forum for these sort of things; user guides, lessons learned or something like that?


Edited by BackInBlack - 20-September-2016 at 5:47AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-September-2016 at 8:19AM
Just had the CVPI Springs (Moog 80090) and Monroe severe service CVPI shocks installed in my 72 montego wagon. wow! what a difference.

definitely not too harsh, definitely worth the money. Front end of the car sits about an inch too high I'd say (no A/C, but has PS. 351C-2V.)

anyone who's looking to do the upgrade...
and


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-September-2016 at 3:19PM
You'll have to cut the springs shorter.  I cut half a coil off mine, I know one member cut 3/4 of a coil on a 1972 with a 351W.  Wagons are much more rear biased in their balance do I wouldn't be surprised if you need to cut a fair amount to get your correct stance.  Those Monroe's are a good "poor mans" alternative to the high priced Bilsteins.  Don't forget to do your rear shocks too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-September-2016 at 4:15PM
I cut about 1/2 coil off my fronts. With a 460 and no A/C, it sits well. Once I install all the front pieces, it should drop another 1/2 inch or so from what you see here.



Edited by unlovedford - 28-September-2016 at 4:19PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2016 at 5:23PM
i'd agree on this thread. My purpose in starting this was to keep it more technical however it sort has become an insane animal that took on it's own life. I never expected ti to develop into 27+ pages...

This winter is looking to be a long one for me. Rear springs are on the list. I need to re-group and look at my rear springs as I am running springs from a Moog NORS pair I got off ebay that was for a 75-76 Thunderbird.
Keep in mind I road trip a lot and we load the trunk down.  I'd love to try bilstein shocks but thus far I've been happy with the KYB mono tube shocks. 

Side note: Watch your front shock hardware. As like everything else with out cars I had hardware break on my a few years ago when i was running the cut down Lincoln mark v front coils and beat the heck out of my motorcraft police spec shocks.

Has anyone started an Excel spreadsheet as of yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2016 at 12:57AM
This thread is a beast...
We really need to distill this into a "spring guide" with different spring packages.  Some folks want a highway cruiser, some a drag car, others more street/track handling performance.   Sedan, fastback, wagon, etc.

More like a wiki page I guess.   There is so much in this thread that anyone (especially a new member) will have a hard time to find anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2016 at 1:25AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:


This winter is looking to be a long one for me. Rear springs are on the list. I need to re-group and look at my rear springs as I am running springs from a Moog NORS pair I got off ebay that was for a 75-76 Thunderbird.
Keep in mind I road trip a lot and we load the trunk down.  I'd love to try bilstein shocks but thus far I've been happy with the KYB mono tube shocks. 

Side note: Watch your front shock hardware. As like everything else with out cars I had hardware break on my a few years ago when i was running the cut down Lincoln mark v front coils and beat the heck out of my motorcraft police spec shocks.

Has anyone started an Excel spreadsheet as of yet?
I have really good luck with Moog 8307 (158 in/lbs) springs in the rear.  I also ran Moog 8531 (183 in/lbs), but found them a bit too stiff for our rough roads out here.
 
I have several Excel sheets I have been working on over the years that list the factory springs and all the aftermarket options for these cars.  I am still working on collecting the 1973 info as time allows. Unfortunately after 1973 Ford does not list full specs in their parts catalogs.  The spring rates on these new springs were only listed on a tag on the actual springs.
 
I plan to start a new thread where it is an easier to use guide. This thread needs to stay as a place where people can post their experiences while a guide can be a place that brings it all together.  The problem is many guys want lowered cars with out of the box springs which just isn't an option without custom springs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2017 at 6:52PM
Great info. Looking for advise. I don't want to cut coils. I want to throw in new springs that will stop my front end from diving and wallowing when I hit a bump on the freeway. My suspension is tight but My Brouham has soft spings with 351w. If uncut coils raise my car 1 inch that's fine. Any thoughts about Moog coil numbers and more importantly, shocks. I like a stiff ride and stock ride height. I'm thinking Bilstine, especially the coil over Bilstine. I will run Ranchos with separate resivoir if it will help. Let me know if you have the time.
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Mine I consider to be a truck. Here are some pics. the blue is what it used to be, deeply lowered in front. I hated it. all new polyvinyl bushings installed with MOOG 8314 springs. The cragar mags picture have 14 inch rubber. The 81 Lincoln town car wheels picture are 15in with 235/70/15 rubber. And I am going larger, once I find the 4th wheel, the yard only had 3. I did get all 4 of the 98 town car 15s, but they don't fit the front rotor, due to a tiny centering cast ring, which I will just grind out, if I decide to use them. eventually 265s on the back and 245s on the front or 265 all the way if it fits, I am sure it will. its now stiffer then the back, so I added some air in the bags to stiffen it, next move will be an entire Crown Vic POS rear axle.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-January-2017 at 1:45PM
Ok....so the nose is off the car, but the motor/trans is in the car, and when I let the car down the bumpstops don't even come off the frame, lol. The Coyote is about 200 lbs lighter than the 351M. 

So basically, I need to drop the nose because of the less engine weight, PLUS I also want to drop the car about 2 inches lower than stock. 

Any suggestions on how much to cut off stock springs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-January-2017 at 6:26PM
obviously springs vary due to rate, ETC. but a general rule of thumb i go by is ... 1/2 a coil = 1" drop in theory, so i'd say cut 1 full coil and check it! you can always cut more if needed. cut both and replace them (leave the ball joint nuts finger tight, so you can take them back apart if needed)(once you get the drop you're happy with, then tighten the nuts) also when it's all back together and off the jacks roll the car back and forth a few feet to allow the tires to get positioned and see  the drop, if you don't it sit about an inch higher than if it rolls to relax everything Wink
 also it will be about an inch higher without the front clip on it Wink 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n2fordwagons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 12:43AM
Isn't there a maximum number of coils one should cut from their springs?  I would think that Sal will need to cut a significant number of coils to achieve the amount of desired drop.
And, obviously, you'll want to put the nose back on the car before you start cutting springs, and playing around with things. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 12:45AM
When I was lowering my Ranchero, I also cut the front coils(as well as the rear coils), I used this calculator to help determine how much needed to be trimmed off the overall length to get to my desired ride height. That said, it really boils down to actually installing the coil springs and accurately measuring how much of the coil needs cut off for the look you are wanting. Not sure if this calculator has been posted in this thread, very helpful to me in determining a target installed height as I was cutting the coil springs. http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm 
 
 Hope this is helpful.


Edited by aquartlow - 17-January-2017 at 12:46AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote changinlatitudes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 1:28AM
Is there a rule of thumb when it comes to actually cutting the coil? As in....how to properly cut it with a cut-off wheel. At an angle? One particular side (top or bottom?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 4:58AM
Cut the "square" end of the spring(it locates in the bottom control arm). I used a 4 1/2" grinder with a cut-off wheel, cut straight across the spring wire and then "JUST" taper(de-burr) the cut to remove the sharp edge. I used a piece of 1" masking tape wrapped around the spring the first time to help keep cut straight, the next ones were free handed.  
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 5:08AM
Originally posted by n2fordwagons n2fordwagons wrote:

Isn't there a maximum number of coils one should cut from their springs?  I would think that Sal will need to cut a significant number of coils to achieve the amount of desired drop.
And, obviously, you'll want to put the nose back on the car before you start cutting springs, and playing around with things. 
 
Jeff, you saw my Ranchero at last year's Moonshine fest, I cut my front springs "a ton" to get the tucked look with my 27.7" tall tires(245-40-20's). I actually used a set of front springs from a '99-'03 Ford Lightning, stock they are 13.94" at free height, I cut them down to 10.75" free height to achieve the ride/look I was shooting for. These springs are robust with .812" spring wire diameter. I figure I have between 900-950 in lb spring rate, sounds like a lot, but the BBF/C6 combo plus accessories makes the ride surprisingly comfortable while being "sporty"(maybe not the best wording) for such a large and front-heavy ride.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 10:48AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Cut the "square" end of the spring(it locates in the bottom control arm). I used a 4 1/2" grinder with a cut-off wheel, cut straight across the spring wire and then "JUST" taper(de-burr) the cut to remove the sharp edge. I used a piece of 1" masking tape wrapped around the spring the first time to help keep cut straight, the next ones were free handed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 11:56AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Cut the "square" end of the spring(it locates in the bottom control arm). I used a 4 1/2" grinder with a cut-off wheel, cut straight across the spring wire and then "JUST" taper(de-burr) the cut to remove the sharp edge. I used a piece of 1" masking tape wrapped around the spring the first time to help keep cut straight, the next ones were free handed.  
 
+2
 
This is the same method I used.  Todd described the correct end to cut be it's actually called the tangential end, not the square end.  The Square end fits into the frame and is "squared" up so that it sits flat.
 
 
 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-January-2017 at 12:17PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Cut the "square" end of the spring(it locates in the bottom control arm). I used a 4 1/2" grinder with a cut-off wheel, cut straight across the spring wire and then "JUST" taper(de-burr) the cut to remove the sharp edge. I used a piece of 1" masking tape wrapped around the spring the first time to help keep cut straight, the next ones were free handed.  
 
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This is the same method I used.  Todd described the correct end to cut be it's actually called the tangential end, not the square end.  The Square end fits into the frame and is "squared" up so that it sits flat.
 
 
 
 
Vince,
 You are 100% correct, thank you for catching my error( I hate giving erroneous info Ouch), I had the terminology "bass-ackwards".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote changinlatitudes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-January-2017 at 12:57AM
Appreciate the info! I like a good visual, so between that and the video John posted, I think I got it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom72torino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2017 at 10:23PM
Hi Guys!
First of all, really good reading in this post! Good work! But now i am a bit confused when looking for new springs and shocks for my 72 gran Torino formal. Confused
I'm looking for springs and shocks for the rear. At the moment, worn out standard springs and air shocks from gabriel (hijackers) are mounted. Please do not hit me, I did not know better years ago. Ouch Since I wanted to have a small wedge shape (i think you call it rack look?), so I mounted these at the time and took the crappy damping and the bumpy driving behavior in purchase.
At the front the standard springs and shocks are installed, but relatively new. So I do not want to change anything at the front. On the one hand the handling is good in the front and for the second I find the height suitable.
What springs and shocks can you recommend to me to get the same height, which I currently have with the air shocks.
Front height is from center wheel to fender lip 15 inches and in the rear 16 1/2 inches.
Here are pictures of the current state. I'm sorry for the blurred pictures of my mobile camera.
Thank you very much!Smile
Have a nice day!
Greetings from austria!
Thomas
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