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INFO: THE coil spring thread

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73GTS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-December-2009 at 5:40AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:

Good info, but the spring load rates are moog rates which some are different from the factory load rates.


Yes, that XLS file is for Moog springs only, not factory springs. If you see a couple of posts up, I have the specs for the factory springs (for '72 Torinos). The aftermarket has far fewer spring choices than the factory options. However, since it's unlikely to get factory springs anymore, we are stuck with using Moog. That's why you can look up the specs of the factory and see if the aftermarket makes one close to the original. Otherwise, you may need to get custom springs to match the car's originals.

Don't forget load rates are simply the weight applied to the spring at the load height, it's not the spring's capacity. For example, a spring with a 2500 lb load rate and an 11" installed height, simply means that when the spring is compressed to 11", it has a load of 2500 lbs on it.
 
OK
Here's my dilemma;
I want to go with the CVPI spring. I read somewhere the factory spring load rate is around 2400+. The Moog replacement is around 2100. I can order the Ford spring from Ford under part number D90Z-5310-W but I cannot verify the specs. My 73 was originally a 351, now it will be a 429 and with the extra weight I want to make sure I get the right spring. I don't think the Moog spring will work for me with it's lower load rate.Confused 
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-December-2009 at 6:50AM
My dilemma is.. ride height.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-December-2009 at 9:39AM
Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:

Here's my dilemma;

I want to go with the CVPI spring. I read somewhere the factory spring load rate is around 2400+. The Moog replacement is around 2100. I can order the Ford spring from Ford under part number D90Z-5310-W but I cannot verify the specs. My 73 was originally a 351, now it will be a 429 and with the extra weight I want to make sure I get the right spring. I don't think the Moog spring will work for me with it's lower load rate.Confused 


I crunched some numbers, and I think you'll be okay with the Moog springs. Remember, the load rate is not the springs capacity. It is how much weight the spring is carrying at it the height it's designed ride height. Things get complicated when you compare different applications and spring rates, and may not be easy to compare.

If anyone has the specs for the factory CVPI springs, I'd like to see how they compare to the Moogs.

If you open the XLS file I made on the Moog springs, you'll see there is a spring calculator on the side as well. This was made to compare different springs in your application.

The load rate is the pressure that the car puts on the spring. So this stays constant for your car regardless of spring choice. So if we have a 1973 429 Torino with HD springs, the moog application is 8314. So according to Moog, this Torino puts about 2776 lbs of pressure on the front coil spring. You can change this to any spring in the world, but as long as you don't change anything else on the car, your car will still put 2776 lbs of pressure on that spring.

So if you want to compare this to a CVPI Moog spring, you can use the calculator to do that. Enter in the 2776 load from your car, the 710 in/lbs rating and 14.38" free height of the spring.

The result: 10.5"

This means, the CVPI spring will sit at 10.5" when loaded with 2776 lbs of pressure. If you see the chart, the stock springs for 1972-73 Torino's have the springs sit at 10.5-11". So, it looks like you car would sit pretty near stock height with these springs, but my guess is on the low side.

Remember, the load rate of on the CVPI spring is only 2034 lbs. This means a Vic only puts that much pressure on the front springs. But, you'll also note the Crown Vic, stock and CVPI, has the springs stitting at 11.5" (approx), which is much taller than the '73 Torino.

I hope this is clear, if not I'll try to explain it better.

I wanted to try to run CVPI moogs in my '72 Torino, but with my 400 and lack of the weight from the heavy '73 bumper, I think they'll sit too high in my car.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 03-December-2009 at 10:21AM
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-December-2009 at 1:45PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

 

If you open the XLS file I made on the Moog springs, you'll see there is a spring calculator on the side as well. This was made to compare different springs in your application.


I opened the chart, but I don't understand "spring calculator". How does that work?
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-December-2009 at 3:45PM
Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:



I opened the chart, but I don't understand "spring calculator". How does that work?


First go to this page, and find out what moog spring your car uses.

http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm

Then look at the load rate for that spring. This is an "approximate" load rate that you can use for your car. The only way to find the actual load rate involves weighing you car at that corner and using bunch of really complicated math and measurements from the suspension (which I don't have).

So for example, on that page a 1973 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension uses coil spring 8224. We look at the Excel chart and this spring has a load rate of 2776 lbs. So, that means, a 1973 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension puts approximate 2776 lbs of pressure on that front spring when stock. So, if we use a different spring in the car, it still puts that same pressure (2776 lbs) on the spring (the car's weight hasn't changed), do you follow me?

So, take that load rate for your car, enter it in the load rate on the spring calculator. Then find the spring specs from from the coil spring you want to try in your car. So, lets say we use Moog 8336, which is a much stiffer spring from a 1975 460 Torino. So you use the spring rate (how stiff the spring is) and the free length (the length of the spring uncompressed) in the calculator from spring 8336.

The result is 11.2". So what does that mean?

It means if you apply a load of 2776 lbs to that spring, it will compress to 11.2" in height. The stock Moog spring for this 73 compressed to 10.5" in height with that same load. So these springs would lift the front end of the Torino compared to the stock Moog replacements.

Do you follow?

Edited by 72FordGTS - 03-December-2009 at 3:45PM
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-December-2009 at 4:02PM
I believe I understand now. I just can't find the spring calculator.Wacko
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-December-2009 at 1:52AM
It's on the excel sheet, it's over on the far right (depending on your screen resolution, you may have to scroll over to see it).

Just enter the numbers in the boxes and it will give you the result.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-December-2009 at 2:26AM
GOT IT!!
That works great!
 
ThanksThumbs Up
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interceptor460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-December-2009 at 6:23AM
Also as I mentioned in my previous reply . You can use springs made for other cars. This is as long the ends are the same and inside diameters are 4.03 to 4.04 inch. If you take a look you get a wider choice and higher spring rates if needed. Look at coil p/n CS5552 74 caprice . A higher rate than ford offers at the same height as coil p/n cs8336.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-December-2009 at 2:17PM
Originally posted by interceptor460 interceptor460 wrote:

Also as I mentioned in my previous reply . You can use springs made for other cars. This is as long the ends are the same and inside diameters are 4.03 to 4.04 inch. If you take a look you get a wider choice and higher spring rates if needed. Look at coil p/n CS5552 74 caprice . A higher rate than ford offers at the same height as coil p/n cs8336.
 

That spring in a Torino would actually have an installed height around 11.5. It would be a good choice for a 75-79ish w/460 if you need a little higher spring rate. What hurts that spring is the load rate of 3025lbs. Compared to the CVPI spring, the CVPI spring is a better choice for 72-73.
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interceptor460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-December-2009 at 4:55AM
It all depends what year crown victoria PI spring you are looking at. I tried to post photos on this site , but I have a problem doing so as I am not the best on using compters. I could show you ride height of my old police torino or show scans of coil spring specs. Also I had to cut down springs to reduce ride height on my 78 pontiac pheonix. It has a V-6, yet I put V-8 coils and I cut 1/2 a coil to put it a the right height. The end result it rides stiff yet I take turns with no worries.
  My 74 police torino was not so bad in the turns yet it could use improvement. I have to look into all options with a open mind. Last I do not have the CVPI coils specs for 2001 and up. I try to look into that soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-December-2009 at 7:44AM
Originally posted by interceptor460 interceptor460 wrote:

It all depends what year crown victoria PI spring you are looking at. I do not have the CVPI coils specs for 2001 and up. I try to look into that soon.

MOOG Part # 80090
1998 - 2002 Crown Vic
1998 - 2002 Mercury Grand Marq
Inside DiaBar DiaInstall HeightLoad rate (lbs)Spring Rate (Lbs/in.)Free HeightEnd Type
4.04                           0.781                  11.75                    2034                      710                         14.38                     One Square End and 1 Tangential End
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2010 at 3:36PM
BUMP anyone ever try anything from this?
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2010 at 3:49PM
Figures I made no effort to bump this back up Paul...thanks.
Reading though this again, I need to read it again...Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2010 at 3:51PM
I'm just looking for a simple answer like the chevelle guys seem to do. 

Have a big block? want 1" drop? use spring XXXX
2" drop? use XXXX.
Small block? use XXXX.

etc. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blueoval76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2010 at 8:26AM
I agree I would really like to drop my front end at least 2 inches but would rather replace the coil instead of cutting it since I have a lean and I am not sure if its the front coil.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blueoval76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-July-2010 at 10:58AM
Ok it is now time to bump this back up. I just ordered NAPA part number 277-3144. From what I can tell I have 2 different height springs in the front so I went to NAPA and the guy made a copy of the coils in the 4.000 - 4.080 diameter range out of his book. So I looked it over and picked one that looks like it will work best to possibly lower my front. I will post back with pics once they are in. The info on the springs is below.
 
# Coil Spring Coils : 9.13
Coil Spring Free Height : 16.12"
Coil Spring I.D. : 4.04"
Coil Spring Load Height : 10.5"
Design Load : 2329
Spring Rate : 414
Wire Diameter : .705
 
 
Jesse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blueoval76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-August-2010 at 2:40PM
So I finally got my springs put in Friday and it seems a little different but it is really hard to tell any difference at all in the pic. I can tell that when sitting in the car the nose is down compared to before. I did not correct the lean with the springs so the only thing left is the control arms and spindle on the pass side that was replaced with JY parts from a different car that must be a little taller. That will be looked at next year some time.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-August-2010 at 3:41PM
 
Have you noticed any difference in handling with the new springs? I went with a set of either 425 or 450 springs from Eaton. I was just curious as yours appear to spec pretty close and I won't get to drive mine for a bit yet.  
Sharp looking car. Looks like you tucked in the front bumper, did you do the rear as well? 


Edited by lynchster - 22-August-2010 at 3:46PM
Chuck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-August-2010 at 3:01AM
As embarrassed as I am to say...

My Cougar from VA had PST 'lowering springs in the car. I loved the stance. Car handled great as well. . I asked the previous owner what he bought, etc.
In his words"
I think PST sent the wrong progressive rate front springs b/c the resulting ride height made the car sit like it was launching on slicks and a 4.88 gear! :) I could sit on either end of the bumper without much of a ride drop. We cut over a coil each side, but it didn't make much of a height difference. The final solution was to heat the bottom of each coil with a torch until it achieved the desired stance."

I hate to say it, but I'm really happy with these springs and I swapped them to my white Cougar.


Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
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