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INFO: The Coil Spring Thread

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Eliteman76 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 5:50AM
Andy-
Wagins are no different in my mind.
Because you have a cruiser, and you realize this, I would lean towards standard OEM replacement over trying to change it up alot.
Sway Bar:
I would take a second look under your car...I've been recently suprised with the number of wagons with sway bars.
If you need a front bar, I've got a couple standard smaller front bars collecting dust I would love to send one to a good home.
Rear bar, Addco makes a add-on rear bar. Or, if you are like me and junk yard alot, look for an explorer with a rear bar and make some brackets to adapt.
 
Shocks:
As far as shocks, I would look at just sticking a good OEM replacements.
Is a performance shock needed? Probably would not hurt, but would a good Monroe gasmatic or similar fine? Probably. Just up to you and your wallet.
I've got a pair of Monroe 500 HD gas shocks collecting dust in one of my cabinets, but you could also look around Rock Auto and find some clearance sale shocks.
 
Bushings, I stuck standard type replacements on my Sport...and out back I have wheel hope issues, but I am also an insane lead foot that can't slow the hell down.Evil Smile
 
Springs:
Springs, once again, if this is a driver, and you don't want a concrete truck ride, I would just order up some Moog replacements, specific for your wagon, or you can go to a company like Eaton Spring, and special order your springs to be a specific match to the originals as they have alot of the original spring prints.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Andrew
 
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 6:14AM
Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

The Chevelle guys have a nice table setup on their forum..

Car / Ride Height / Engine = Spring Number.

Someone could probably comb through these TWELVE pages, and come up with a handy chart, that will get 90% of people in the ball park.

 
Great, thanks for volunteering Paul.
WinkLOL
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 6:25AM
I already did one for tires, lol.

Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DirtyHarry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 7:02AM
According to one chart posted here, I should buy for my 76 Gran Torino wagon Moog 80090 fronts, Moog CC811 for rears, which means a HD rear spring. That sound right, wagons use a standard heavier rear spring, right? Wheres the best place to buy them?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 7:51AM
Rockauto.com is where I usually go for springs. Try the various parts store websites (autozone.com /oreillys.com... etc). 
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 8:09AM
Coogan,
Be careful cutting 2" off springs in stock suspension.   Taking to much off can throw out the geometry out across the wheel travel.   Fatman has some 2" drop spindles for our year Torino.   This is a better way to lower the car 2" and maintaining the stock suspension setup.
 
I just finished rebuilding/install my rear gears, tru-trac, and 31 spline axles.  I'm starting on the rear suspension now.  Yeah!   removing/scraping and sealing up old undercoating is so exciting.
 
It would be best to decide first the ride height you want before tackling springs, etc.  If you lower a stock car by cutting springs your generally OK if you dont lower it anymore than 1" max.  I'm speaking in general terms "rule of thumb" here.   Just be aware to check the setup geometry if you go lower than 1".   Bumpsteer, ful range of motion on the ball joints, bump stops, etc....
 
Just my opinion.   I learned the hard way on my old Mustang.
 
I'm prolly lowering about 1/2" by using aftermarket springs by Hypercoil.   I'm replacing the rear sway bar with a 7/8" bar, installing urethane bushings, installing 200-225lb/in Hypercoil double pigtail springs 14" vs the stock 14.38" (192lb/in variable rate) uninstalled height.   I'm lowering a lil'bit.  Not much.  I already have trouble with my exhaust pipes scraping when I go over driveway ramps.  
 
-John
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 9:17AM
Originally posted by crispy23c crispy23c wrote:

Hey, so guess what? Tongue  Guess what I did today? Tongue
I put in the CC803 Moogs that I got yesterday afternoon!  And guess what? Tongue
I LOVE THEM!!!!  No more sloppy back end trying to keep up with the front end!
She handles    F Tongue  L  Tongue  A  Tongue  T
Can ya tell I am totally HAPPY with my choice?  LOL
So I got the MOOG CVPI springs in the front and the MOOG CC803 springs in the rear.  One note:  The rear sits about 1/2" higher with these new springs over the CC807 softer springs, but it sits perfect, in my opinion.  FINALLY.
~Chris
 
Before I order some springs...anyone know the starting rate of the spring?
Since these are variable rate I'm guessing the fully compressed rating is the listed 305lb/in rate.   I can't find any details regarding the "varible" rates and compression distance, etc.
 
Chris,
What are the sway bars on your car?   1" font  7/8" rear?
 
Thanks,
John
 
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2011 at 12:47PM
Originally posted by DirtyHarry DirtyHarry wrote:

According to one chart posted here, I should buy for my 76 Gran Torino wagon Moog 80090 fronts, Moog CC811 for rears, which means a HD rear spring. That sound right, wagons use a standard heavier rear spring, right? Wheres the best place to buy them?

The 80090 springs are the CVPI springs (crown vic police interceptor). Probably not what you want on the front of your wagon. They have a high spring rate. 
I bought all my springs from Amazon. They were the cheapest and have free shipping.  
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crispy23c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-October-2011 at 4:34AM
Guys,
it FINALLY stopped raining here, and I am not travelling, so I should be able to post pics of the Torino by this weekend at latest, so you all can see how she sits now.  Thanks!
Chris

PS- I really like your Wagon, Dirty Harry!!!!  Looks REALLY nice!!!


Edited by crispy23c - 06-October-2011 at 4:37AM
Chris P. '73 GTS FastBack 351CJ-4V Triple black


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2011 at 5:05PM
I agree with John. In the context of cutting coils, it's much better to be conservative, or get coils done by someone like Eaton Springs, that can make springs to your request and not mess things up. Just speaking from experience, take it with 2 cents and a grain of salt FWIW.

My own experience, I paid in the end result of hitting my oil pan on a bad curb and had to change out.
I still miss the old look, but what I lost in looks, I gained back in ride quality.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-October-2011 at 3:07AM
I found some other stock coil springs that may be good options for beefing up the front spring rate

moog   in dia  wire   load   rate    uheight  iheight
80100  3.99  0.812  2264  854.6 13.94    11.25 
80098  4 0     .781  1888   748    13.72    11.27  

I'm planning on the 80098 in the front and hypercoil 200in/lb 14" double pig-tail in the rear.   From my calculations it should keep the stock ride height.   Drop maybe 0.1" to 0.2" with no cutting.

I'm also planning to use digressive valved Bilstein shocks and 7/8" sway bar in the rear.   Still working the front sway bar.  

I believe this will provide good handling and still have a descent ride.   This setup is for a 351C not a big block.   I would like to lower the car 1", but due to how the exhaust is routed it makes it problematic with clearance over typical public streets.
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2011 at 4:23AM
Just FYI...I tried the Hypercoil Springs with double pigtail ends.  (Bought them from Carl's Racing over they web).  They didn't fit.   The pig tail ends are to small in diameter.   Looks like the only option aside from swapping OEMs is to have them made by someone like Coil Spring Specialties.

-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crispy23c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2011 at 9:38AM

Dang,sorry for the delay guys, I finally got my digital camera out and shot a pic of the '73 GTS with the new coils all around.  These are 14" 60's all around, and I expect it to sit slightly lower after she settles.  These are the MOOG CVPI replacements up front and MOOG CC803s on the rear.  On flat ground it has a slight drop towards the front, just the look I wanted.  
Back in Black, Factory 1" font  7/8" rear, correct  
Handles FLAT on corners. Here you go:




Edited by crispy23c - 23-October-2011 at 9:43AM
Chris P. '73 GTS FastBack 351CJ-4V Triple black


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albo74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2011 at 10:25AM
 Ya that looks nice Chris , straighted right out . plenty of room for rubber. at least out back ,  500s on a 73 ?  but  save the slots for burning, glad the window seal went good .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-October-2011 at 12:15PM
Hey Chris,

looks great. What is the measurement to the fender edge front and back? What size tires are you running? How does it ride with the CVPI springs?

I just parked my Torino for the season today. Have all the parts to rebuild the front end over the winter including CVPI springs.

Andrew,

if you read this, I remember you post your measurements to the fender edge a few pages back. Did the springs settle at all with time?

Edited by 72FordGTS - 23-October-2011 at 12:17PM
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 Torino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-October-2011 at 5:59AM
Hi. want to lower my car in front. it has a 351 clevland motor. which set of front coil springs from  summit should I buy to lower my 72 Gran Torino?

kim




Edited by 72 Torino - 28-October-2011 at 6:25AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2011 at 5:13AM
Your stance looks pretty good to me. Sure you want to lower it? If I were to change the front springs, I would use the CVPI 80090 Moog springs everyone is using. You can buy them at Amazon. They have the best price and free shipping.
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-October-2011 at 6:05AM
the blacked out scoop looks great, especially flat black
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2012 at 12:23PM
Has anyone run the non-cargo Moog rear springs? I am thinking of going with Moog 8531 for the rear of my car. The have a 183 in/lbs rate and I think they should be about factory ride height, which is what I want.

Also has anyone with the 80090 CVPI springs cut them yet? I am thinking of taking a 1/4 coil off mine. With my stock springs my car was sitting at about 26.5" to front wheel lip with 245/60-15s (they have sagged over the years). I was hoping for the new springs to be somewhere around 27" at the fender edge, but I think uncut they will be somewhere around 27.5"+.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2012 at 3:52PM
Here is the height of my old springs, moots speced for a 1977 mark 5, with 4.5" of spring hacked off.
{don't exactly recommend this, I was pretty liberal with the cut off wheel.}
The CVPI front spring:

While I am thinking I need to trim a 1/2 a coil, not been worried about it.
I am good with the stance for now...and the ride feels decent.

I do like the old stance to a degree, but this caused me to smash a oil pan.

And stepping back in time a few years...

and back to now:


Edited by Eliteman76 - 23-February-2012 at 3:56PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2012 at 11:27PM
Andy,
You have the CVPI springs in the front and the station wagon OEM springs in the back?
 
Are you trying to target the stock ride height or lower it...or lower just the front for more rake?

BTW:  Mine, which is stock height original OEM springs.  Measured from the ground through the center line of the tire to the fender lip is just under 26".   I have the stock OEM 14" wheels/tires on at the moment.
 
-John


Edited by BackInBlack - 24-February-2012 at 12:51PM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73GTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-February-2012 at 11:20AM
Andrew, your front end is the perfect height now. I like it way better than before. 27 5/8"
Jim


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-February-2012 at 1:54PM
After looking at your pics Andrew, maybe I will just install them uncut for now and see how I like them. If it comes out like your car, I would be happy with that. These springs are so short compared to the stockers they should be easy to pull out if I have to trim them.

Also, it looks like Eaton makes some new springs for our cars. I posted on their forum a while ago looking for something closer to the stock competition spring. It looks like they now offer two new springs that are stiffer than the factory competition and softer than the CVPI sprigs.

http://www.eatonsprings.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-4173.html

Part number MC8032 has a rate of 665 lbs and also lowers the front 1-inch.
Part number MC6656 has a rate of 567 and keeps the front at stock height.


They also have a couple new rear springs:

For the rears, part number MC6731 has a rate of 190 lbs and lowers the rear 3/4 of an inch.
Part number (will be when specs are finalized)
MC6651 will have a rate of 210 lbs and will lower the rear 1-inch.


I already have the CVPI springs, so I will try them out first since they were so cheap (and it costs a fortune to send parts to Canada). If I am not happy with them I may try one of the eaton springs.

Again if anyone has tried the non cargo moogs in the rear of their Torino, please chime in.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-February-2012 at 2:33PM
This is what I got from Eaton:
John,
 
Due to the design of the rear springs, pigtail size of both ends, we do not offer any lowering springs with high rates.
 
Here is what we have for your Plan A - fronts, MC5254, stock height rate of 710 lbs.
 
Rear, MC1033, stock height, rate 220 lbs.
 
Both sets are 189.95 each plus shipping.
 

This is for stock ride height.  I can't decide if I should lower the car 1".   Notice the front spring is the same rate as the CPVI spring and the rear is a little stiffer.  192lbs to 220lbs  vs the station wagon springs rated for 305lbs/in.

I'm getting ready to change teh springs in mine.  I want to improve handling, but I'm worried that lowering it 1" will create clearance problems.  

Has anyone tried lowering their Torino 1" and how did it fare...scraping over driveway ramps, etc???
-John
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-February-2012 at 4:42PM
Rears are 75-76 Thunderbird hd springs...look though? Just want something decent. I loved the old springs, but I don't miss the ride to a degree. These springs feel good at speed, but I want to replacee the rear shocks. As some here have noticed...I occasionally DRIVE the hell out of my gts
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-February-2012 at 2:16AM
The problem is we are all comparing apples to oranges. I have 255 50 17s in front of my car. That already will lower the nose of the car compared to OEM, without doing anything. 

Big block, with 255 50 17 and 275 50 17s. on OEM 30 year old small block springs all around.


Same car, painted, with same wheel/tire combo, but some springs from PST for a big block, that were supposed to lower the car 1" front and rear... but they were heated to give additional drop in front. No idea how much more. 


Same exact springs, in another similarly equipped Cougar.. but with OEM tires. 


And finally, same springs, same Cougar.. but with 235 70s 15s and 275 60 15s. 


IMO, settle on the wheel and tire combo you want first before deciding on springs.

Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-February-2012 at 3:47AM
I've pretty much settled on wheel tire...

Wheels: 17x9 front  17x11rear (maybe go 18" but not likely) I like this wheel http://www.newstalgiawheel.com/wheel_detail.asp?subcat3=1111102   
I think it would look pretty good on a torino or some 17/18" Magnum 500 style wheels.

Tires: 255 45R17 in front and  295 40R17 in rear
Using a tire calculator it is roughly same size at original diameter tires (225 70R14)

I wont get much lowering from wheel/tire combo.  I have plenty of room under the car; the problem is the headers that came with the car.   I will prolly lower it and replace the headers with FPA or Sanderson shorties.   The headers droop much lower than the oil pan.

Placing a soda can under the car between the can and the frame there is at least 2 inches.   Even more in the rear.   The clearance problem is the headers/exhaust.   However, looking at the angle of the front lower control arm...it looks like lowering 1" might throw off the suspension geometry.  This i probably why that black torino Andy posted had cut up and changed the lower control arm.  
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 351C Torino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-March-2012 at 6:06PM
I recently upgraded my springs and shocks and am pretty happy with the results.
I found a set of specs for aligning the front end, which I tried to get my local tire store to set for me. They claimed that one of the tie rod ends would not adjust to the specs due to "mechanical limitations". 
I will take it to someone that knows what they are doing, but I wanted to throw out the specs to see if anyone knows anything about these settings, and if everyone is using stock specs after they upgrade to stiffer springs/shocks.

This is a 1972 Gran Torino Sport with a 351C

Caster +3 to +5.5 degrees
Camber 0 to 1/2 degrees
Toe in 1/16 to 1/8 inch

I am not sure what it ended up looking like after these monkeys got finished with it, but it feels like the thing pivots on a point instead of feeling flat when steering. Very sensitive steering, but breaks straight.
Mostly polyurethane bushings. The upper A frame bushings haven't been changed out. even though I had it apart to put in the front springs.
You know, twice the work is twice the fun!

Any help would be appreciated.
Jerry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 351C Torino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-March-2012 at 6:35PM
By the way, I found this website that shows moog spring specs if anyone is looking to match their OEM springs
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/Universal_Coil_Springs.asp

The springs I used are
Moog 9046 Front Coil Springs
Moog CC803 Rear Coil Springs
The CC803 were subed for a set of Raybestus (sp) springs that actually had the Moog part number included on the box. They are a little cheaper. May be something to look into.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-March-2012 at 6:47PM
am i wrong in thinking that the camber should be - so the tops of the tires are closer together than the bottoms?
 
this / \ plants the outside tire in a corner
 
this \ / skids off into the ditch
72 GT Ute
   
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