INFO: The Coil Spring Thread |
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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Larger sidewalls will help a TON.. changing nothing, other than tires from a 225 75 15 to a 255 50 17 made the ride like a truck.. 75% of 225 is ~170 and 50% of 255 ~130.. the extra 40mm was a cushion.. What are you running for tires?
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Since we don't really have any clearly posted data about the OEM coil springs, I took the time to compile a couple of charts. Further I was able to calculate all the spring rates. The chart includes two rates for each spring because the diameters of the OEM springs aren't known exactly. I used a range of 4.00" on the low end and 4.04" on the high end (which is what the aftermarket uses). This gives two different spring rates (the low rate actually refers to the low end diameter, which creates the spring higher rate, sorry if confusing).
In any case, this gives us a pretty narrow range on what the factory spring rates on our cars were. I also was able to calculate the approximate spring height when compressed. Only the data for the 351-4V early competion springs is off in terms of length (but this doesn't effect spring rate). This data should help those restoring their cars to original specs, as the aftermarket offers no where near what the factory did. Also note that the stiffest springs are not offered by the aftermarket, meaning we'll have to get the springs custom made or take exisiting aftermarket springs and modify them (ie cut them). This will also help those looking to upgrade springs as it will let them know what they are starting with. I attached an excel file. If there are any questions, please ask. Torino_Springs_OEM_specs.xls |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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BackInBlack
Senior Member Joined: 11-January-2011 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Thanks this is really helpful! Do you have the years/model info for the spring codes?
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-John
1973 GTS |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Unfortunately, I only have the specs for the 1972 Torino. I got these from old posts, but the originate from Jack Grice at the Fairlaine Club of America. He got them from the Fords Master Parts book. If someone else digs up the spring specs for other years, I can calculate the factory rates for them as well.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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I was told by Eaton that the factory specs for my front springs were 298 ft lbs. I went and installed 450 ft lb springs with a one inch drop. Now you guys have me reconsidering something in the 600 range.
Anyone currently running springs up front in the 450 - 600 range? What do you think of them?
I'm looking for tighter but turnpike friendly.
Chuck
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Vince, I had posted the specs Jack dug up for me on the FCA site.
I have not sent him a message for some time...but I want to say from the original post, the 400 car springs were the only specs he didn't have. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Chuck
I have contacted Eaton, and they basically only have three springs listed for the 1972 Torino, just like Moog and all similar rates to Moog. They did say that they could make a spring comparable to a competition spring. As for stiffer springs, I know we have at least one member who has th 700 lbs/inch Crown Vic Police springs. Eliteman, I contacted Jack earlier this year, and he confirmed all the spring specs were from the Ford Parts Master Catalog. All I did was use a spring formula to figure out the rate (basically the # of coils, diameter and wire thickness are all that's needed). He posted the 400 spring specs in one of his posts on FCA forums (I joined FCA this year). When I pull the front springs from my car this year, I am going to measure them (wire thickness and coil count) to make sure it is the same as the info we have here. |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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Most useful, thanks for posting that.
It appears Eaton thought I was running stock 351C 4v spring specs and I went for the competition springs. Since it has the late competition suspension I've got stock albeit shorter springs for my car at least.
I still wonder if I should go with something in the 600 range or if it will "skateboard" the car.
Chuck
Edited by lynchster - 18-April-2011 at 4:16PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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I am kinda curious how the handle is with 700 springs up front. I read an article that the spring rates for the 84-86 police ltd lx's (small one) were running 600 / 200.
As I re read your post I do recall him saying he would have to make mine, it's been a few years. He did tell me if I didn't like the height to call back before I cut them. Edited by lynchster - 18-April-2011 at 4:18PM |
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Talk to Gary, Torinogts73c, he was the one who put the CVPI springs in. They worked out of the box in his 73, but I suspect they might sit a tad high in a lighter 1972 car.
I am still undecided on what I am going to do. The stock HD springs in my 400 car are pretty stiff compared to most cars I have driven in this vintage. My car just has terrible body roll. I have new Bilstiens and Addco sway bars, and I might just try them with the stock springs to see how it is. Otherwise, instead of paying a premium for custom springs, I might modify some Moogs. A Moog 8336 is rated at 473 in/lbs stock, but its about 17" tall. If I cut about 1 coil it should increase the spring rate to about to the 550 range and sit at stock level. Of course it will be a little trial and error to get it sitting right. I am just doing some rough math for these results. Edited by 72FordGTS - 20-April-2011 at 3:36PM |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Vince- I took Moog springs specified for a 1977 Mark 460 with AC...and waxed 4.5 inches of coils off the car. Not the best most scientific thing I could have done. I can tell you from driving my 1972 GTS...it's a flat road road for me. My only issue was I think I took too much off the top.
I have the CVPI springs, and I am going to do what I can to sneak out of yard work this weekend and swap my springs. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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BackInBlack
Senior Member Joined: 11-January-2011 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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I ran with 620 or 680 lbs springs in my old 65 mustang with 1 1/4 bar in the front and no sway bar in the rear. Rear spring had an extra leaf, cant remember rate. Car lowered 1" only. Stock tires. It handled very well. Surprised me and it didnt ride harsh, just planted. With that in mind I think that I would like no less than the CVPI springs, mine is a 73 GTS. Andrew, Can't wait to hear how it turns out... I'm assuming sway bars are stock and rear coils? Since your running with 17" wheels, I suspect the tires are 40 or 45 series? Your experience with the CVPI spring swap will certainly help me decide what to do.
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-John
1973 GTS |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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Andrew, what Moog spring part number is that? When do you plan on installing the CVPI springs? I take you are going to use the Moog versions?
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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The units I got from Jim in Ohio, they are the CVPI springs. I have a ugly repair on my'79 tomorrow {exhaust manifold gasket }.
Still going to shoot for tomorrow. Moog 80090 are the springs.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5846 |
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I meant, the Moogs you have in the car now, what part number are they? Please show us the results once you get the 80090 springs in. If they work well, I may just take a chance and go with them.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Sorry. The springs I will need to look up the number.
I did not get to the spring install this weekend. Saturday had to help family and lost the day for trying to swap the springs. Book I have from Moog, CAT#F2925 dated 2002 front 9012 498 lbs/inch 2850 load rate.765" bar dia Keep in mind, I removed a chunk off the springs, so it's unknown at this point what the rate ended up doing...I don't see it being much higher than the original. Planning on working on the car this week, provided it does not rain the entire week. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Working on installing the springs.
Vince, the moogs I had for the lincoln are 9012, 460 AC car. The 80090 CVPI springs, I am hoping to hell with the higher rate will be ok. I pulled them out-these things are MAYBE a 1/2" taller right now than the Lincoln's. Of course, going from a 498 in/lb to a 710 inch/pound spring...I think should be good. I had to order new coil spring insulators from Advanced Auto, Moog #K8291-2. Used to be a stock part, not has to be ordered, but will have tomorrow morning. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Torinogts73c
Senior Member Joined: 14-February-2004 Location: Tucson Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1034 |
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John I don't think you will have problem CVPI springs I have them in my 73 and there was a difference over the stock Comp. suspension springs and it sits lower as well, with no alignment issues at all!
Edited by Torinogts73c - 29-April-2011 at 3:21PM |
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Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,17 Mustang Ecoboost,15 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD, Ford Ranger parts hauler
"Never complain Never explain" Henry Ford |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Gary, please refresh our memory on Rims(BS too), Tires and Springs as it sits in that pic. NO rubbing?
Looks GREAT!
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Torinogts73c
Senior Member Joined: 14-February-2004 Location: Tucson Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1034 |
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Carl the front rims are are stock 15x7 Magnums 235/60-15's rears are 15x8 with 265/50-15's soon to be replaced with 295/60-15's No rubbing at all ever!! BS is 4.5 on the rears. Rear springs are the comp. suspension springs that came on the car new. Fronts are CVPI springs I got from Ford before they discontinued them! CVPI Front shocks and Gabriel shocks in the rear. 1-1/16 rear sway bar off a L.A. P.D. LTDII, front bar is 1-1/8 stock bar.
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Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,17 Mustang Ecoboost,15 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD, Ford Ranger parts hauler
"Never complain Never explain" Henry Ford |
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crispy23c
Senior Member Joined: 10-November-2007 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Andy, did you put those in yet? I was curious about the ride. Also, what size wheels/tires/backspacing are in yours? I am about to pull the trigger on 17" wheels and was curious. I, too am thinking about the CVPI spring drop, too- and want to do it right or not at all. Looks great!
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Eliteman76
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Springs were done last night at around 11:30pm.
Car was still on stands as of tonight, going through the front end, greasing things, checking brakes, and leaving up until I get the front roll pan picked up tomorrow and on the car tomorrow. Will let you guys know. Discussed with my buddy Steve in Colorado again, and he's thinking I should be really happy with the results with the rate on the springs. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
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Oh, the wheels, 17x9, part number CRR-3458912
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
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So. It's 2:30AM. I spent the last hour and a half tooling around the Omaha Metro area with the springs in.
The nose of the GTS is sitting a little higher, which is what I wanted. Ride-wise, I would say it's a little stiffer than before, but nothing bad for the springs compared to what I was used to. I am happy as I could tell driving in certain areas, with the rough roads we have in spots, I have no issue saying these can't work for most people. Thinking about trimming a half coil, but I am going to run as-is for powertour, and see if they manage to settle somewhat on the GTS. Also, good news on the body bushings for the rad support. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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BackInBlack
Senior Member Joined: 11-January-2011 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Does your car sit at the stock ride height or lowered? Example: Rides like a new Mustang...not to harsh or softer than a new Dodge Challenger. Nose dives less than before, I can hit a hard turn and seems the car leans a couple inches. (I have stock sway bars and 50 series tires, etc) The reason I ask this is because I havent' decided on anything regarding the suspension. Sway bars, springs, tires, etc. If I go with a 40 tire on a 18" rim then I might want to soften my expectation of the springs because the shorter sidewalls don't give like a 50 series. I tend to like the suspension fairly "stiff", even in something like a new mustang. It would help me to have a point of reference to gauge is 700lbs/in is enough or I would likely want more. I tend to like a taller tire (45 to 50 series to dampen vibration) and stiff enough spring to control the body lean. BTW Carls Racing now carries 5" OD springs in a variety of rates which should fit the front of these cars nicely. Check it out, let me know what you think. I might go this route for the front springs. I figure even with Police springs they still emphasis ride comfort for a trooper since he is in the car all day. |
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-John
1973 GTS |
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Eliteman76
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Paul-
The car itself is more leveled than how it looked before...not as much of a rake, but not a big deal for me. Working on pics. I was up till 5am this morning...had a long night...was out with the car until 3am "driving" it. Overall the ride is firm. Not going BS anyone, but the car says level in hard corners. Does not feel bad...but I drive a '79 F150 with high rate coils up front, so trying to compare my other stuff to the GTS is a bit difficult. Comparing the GTS to say my 1999 Contour SE Sport with V6, the ride is compliant, and decent, butt the contour also is a front drive on struts with standard replacement springs. My overall feedback is I think this is what I am happy with, and leaving as it. My hope is the springs will settle maybe a 1/2" over time, and I'm good. I will get pictures up. We lost tv/phone/internet and I just got up and running again. Damn squirrels chewing lines I guess. Will get pictures up hopefully tonight, if we don't get hammered by Tornadoes here {bad storms headed this way right now}
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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72FordGTS
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Andrew,
thanks for posting the update on the coils. I think you may have convinced me to use the same ones in my car. Please share a pic of the stance once you get a chance. If you can, maybe include a measuement to the top of the front fender, and the tire size you run at the front. Have you ever driven a CVPI? If so, how does the Torino drive compared to it? |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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crispy23c
Senior Member Joined: 10-November-2007 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Thanks for all the information guys! Saves the rest of us a TON of guesswork and time! Looks like I am going to order the CVPI equivalent MOOG front springs (80090) along with the insulators (Moog #K8291-2).
Gary, do you also have the stock HD rear springs? I have the stock HD ones out back and the car sits lower, I think, than stock should sit-- they are tired. I am going to replace them too, so I am using your car as a guide. If you don't have stock or stock replacements, what do you have? I can't remember! Chris Edit: I remember, Gary--you have the stock comp springs out back, original, right?? Edited by crispy23c - 09-May-2011 at 10:38PM |
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occupant
Senior Member Joined: 23-October-2006 Location: Lawton, OK Status: Offline Points: 1973 |
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Just make sure if you're ordering CVPI springs, don't get the ones for a '98 unless you want it to sag. That was one of two things I didn't like about my cab. The rear end was too low was the one, and the A/C was ineffective at city speeds with a slightly cracked window.
Still loved that cab. Definitely why I want 16" CVPI wheels, Dodge pickup trim rings, and the center caps. Looks good. |
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08 Uplander LS, 262K, broken again
08 Explorer EB, 195K, for the wife still looking for another something |
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Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
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So can we make a blanket statement that 80090 is the way to go?
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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