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INFO: Tubular Upper Control Arms

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M Casey Stock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 2:25AM
Originally posted by mtburger mtburger wrote:

Hello All.

"I have been following along here for a bit, so I figured I would add......
.........Like most of you all, I have several projects, my 1976 Monarch is what I have been working on in between, and among others.
.........I decided to do the Shelby drop, add the Global West upper arms, and cut back the shock towers for extra engine compartment space.

So this is where the conversation ties into this thread.

The Global West arms have a long list of compatible Ford platforms that they fit (Mustang, Cougar, Falcon, Torino, Montego, Ranchero, Maverick, Comet, Granada and so on from 1966 through 1978), they have been sold for decades now, and they cost $550.00 for the pair plus shipping.
.........
Thanks, Mike H.


Okay, so you are saying that the same arm that fits the Maverick ( the only ford car that Global West offers upper arms for in years that would include the mid to upper 70's) will be a direct fit for a 72-76 Gran Torino? If so, then great! I still have no problems with my current caster settings, so that is still not a draw for me, BUT! These things are at least loaded with all new bushings, ball joint and thru-shaft with grease fittings for the bushings, ready to bolt on. They are still a little pricey for just a pair of uppers, but the best deal I've seen so far.

Here is a link to this product.
http://www.globalwest.net/1970-77maverick.html
1975 Gran Torino, Copperhead

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/75-gran-torino-soft-restoration-copper-head_topic15137_post169060.html?KW=#169060
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 2:38AM
Edited: Removed post...TMI everything already mentioned already.





Edited by BackInBlack - 07-June-2017 at 4:08AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 3:45AM
Wow, sorry for not clarifying.

As stated the Global West pieces are only good for the UNIT BODY shock tower drag strut cars.

For Torino, Montego, & Rancheros the application would be 1968 through 1971, or pre 1972.

The post 1972 applications are Mustang, Cougar, Granada, Monarch, Maverick, and Comet, with 1978 being the last year of production for the UNIT BODY shock tower drag strut cars.

1979 replaced those platforms with the introduction of the FOX bodied Fairmont, Zephyr, Granada, Mustang, Capri, Cougar, & Thunderbird.

The point I was trying to make is that even for Ford or Mercury applications that have a larger number of applicable models, with a much longer production run, the control arms are still more than $550.00 per set.

Mike H.


Edited by mtburger - 07-June-2017 at 3:50AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 4:07AM
Sorry...no offense intended.   Not having much luck lately with email; sometimes comes across the wrong way.   I'll delete my other post.   It seemed there was some confusion there and I was trying to clarify.   Cheers.

Lately it seems that I can't even write emails that aren't taken the wrong way.   I'm a Vulcan; can't help it.




Edited by BackInBlack - 07-June-2017 at 4:11AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 4:40AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:



Lately it seems that I can't even write emails that aren't taken the wrong way.   I'm a Vulcan; can't help it.




I'm right there with you on that Buddy!
Nuke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 4:40AM
No issues here.

The Wow, was for me not being more specific and seeing how easy it is to head down the Yellow Brick Road.

Mike H.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 4:51AM
Originally posted by mtburger mtburger wrote:

Hello All.

The Global West arms have a long list of compatible Ford platforms that they fit (Mustang, Cougar, Falcon, Torino, Montego, Ranchero, Maverick, Comet, Granada and so on from 1966 through 1978), they have been sold for decades now, and they cost $550.00 for the pair plus shipping.



This is the part that got my attention. I did not think they looked like they would fit (different angles and width) That's why I asked for clarification to gain certainty. No worries here, I wasn't about to place an order based on one comment. I do my homework, my money comes by too hard to waste. I do hate that my gut feeling was correct Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 5:49AM
For me...in for a penny, in for a pound.  At times I self reflect and think I'm nuts for spending this on this car.   Its irrational except I like the car and plan to keep it.  Then I think about how cool it will be to roll up to a car show and be the only bad azz 72+ Torino sitting there.   These are great platforms with a lot of potential that has not been discovered yet by the masses at Barrett Jackson.  I remember buying my 71 Plymouth Cuda in high school for $400 bucks...now look at their costs.   Same will happen with this generation Ford in time to a lesser extent.

I just decided.  Either do it...or get rid of it.   Its pricey but given the trade-offs I just bought it and moved on.  Now its behind me and now tackling other issues.

I'm doing other mods like using extended ball joints, etc  to accompany these a-arms and the strut bushings.  I'm trying to get teh front to feel lighter and have a quicker response with more modern front suspension geometry. 
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madmaxtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 4:20PM
hotchkis is making them now but they are 600 loaded.

Edited by madmaxtorino - 07-June-2017 at 4:23PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-June-2017 at 8:33PM
They look better than the current ones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2017 at 1:22AM
Nice, so they finally start to produce Leno's arms, albeit on a limited basis!  I like the fact that these correct the geometry, but they are pricey!  Note that they also have lower arms and strut rods.  I am not sure if all will swap over to our Torino though. 

Edited by 72FordGTS - 08-June-2017 at 1:23AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2017 at 4:02AM
I reckon thats a little lie they're telling


they'll probably be more available than they're letting on but "introductory" just means they'll get a few quick sales in a panic buy if any Galaxie owners see them and they're building a racer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2017 at 6:00AM
Originally posted by madmaxtorino madmaxtorino wrote:

hotchkis is making them now but they are 600 loaded.


This is a good sign...means the industry is starting to recognize these cars. 

These look great!   They correct 2 problems; the positive caster and the negative camber gain.  These look like they will work with teh stock spindles without any extra stuff.  These a-arms appear to have more arc on the arm to raise the upper a-arm inclination angle without using extended ball joints to lengthen the spindle.  

Honestly, these look better and correct the geometry issues vs the Little shop A-arms.  Little shop's are nice but they only increase the positive caster by 4 degrees.   Which is why I'm using Howe Racing upper extended ball joints to help correct the camber gain coupled with the Little Ship upper a-arms.

I would like a better lower arm...still haven't found anything (aside from just welding/boxing the stock lower arm).
Also, still looking for a front 1 3/8" sway bar option.

Hotchkis has a 1 3/8" bar for Galaxy...will it fit the Torino?  Torino sway bars were used on the 65 Galaxy, but can the Galaxy sway bar be used on the Torino?



Edited by BackInBlack - 08-June-2017 at 7:29AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2017 at 11:28AM
So the the Hotchkis arms will fit a 73 then? 

I was putting off buying these til last but it turns out I could use the clearance for the turbo headers.....mocked up today and I can make the pipes much shorter if I remove the big pressed stiffener nearest the block


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2017 at 11:39AM
I dont know for certain...I did take detailed measurements of the galaxy spindles vs the torino.  They are compatible.  However, I didn't write down anything on the a-arms for comparison
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2017 at 12:30PM
Spindles/knee assemblies are interchangeable 65-78 fullsize into the Torino chassis.
Knee assembly includes upper, lower control arms, spindles and (Supposedly) strut rods.
Some Lower control arms have different spring pockets, so swp in pairs if they don't match or your car won't sit level.
Don't know anyone who actually swapped the struts as the big bolt/bushing combo is a bear to get apart. When we were putting Torino Disc brakes into 65-67 Galaxies, we swapped the control arms because the ball joints looked "different" (bolt-in vs. press-in) and the Torino parts were fairly new, Galaxies typically had 100k or more miles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-June-2017 at 3:09PM
I don't have the parts catalog with me know, but IIRC, the same part number was used on the upper arms from for the 1965+ Fords as the 1972 Torinos (early).  The 1972 late - 1976 Torino arm received the larger bushings, but are otherwise the same.  I can't remember on the lower arms, if Randy has done this swaping, it sounds like they are the same.  I'd probably stick with the Torino strut rods to be on the safe side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 12:24AM
Looks like I might have to buy those then!

I'd rather spend the extra $100 on them vs little shop if they fit. It's either this or mutilate the chassis and bring the pipes down rather than up....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 3:00AM
Thats great info!   I didn't realize these parts were used on so many full-size models.

What about the Galaxy sway bar...will it fit on a Torino?

Torino is really wide (63" track width).  I think I measured 59" eye to eye on the Torino sway bar and it looks like the Galaxy is 58"

The reason I'm asking is that I want to upsize the front sway bar to 13/8"   I'm wondering if I can simply install the Hotchkiss Galaxy sway bar on my Torino.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 5:50AM
I'm sure summit sell one that size for a Tornio
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 6:05AM
Nope...I've looked into Nearly all fords chevy pontiac...etc.

I can't find anything that will work on a Torino that is larger than the standard Addco 1 1/8" front sway bar.  What makes it so difficult is that these Fords have a very wide track width as compared to other cars.   Chevy is pretty standard ...if my memory serves me...around 60" 
Torino is 63"...more like a truck.

This means the sway bar has to be wider.  The only option I found if you want more than 1 1/8" front bar is to custom install a splined sway bar. 

I would rather find one that will bolt on...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 6:44AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

Nope...I've looked into Nearly all fords chevy pontiac...etc.

I can't find anything that will work on a Torino that is larger than the standard Addco 1 1/8" front sway bar.  What makes it so difficult is that these Fords have a very wide track width as compared to other cars.   Chevy is pretty standard ...if my memory serves me...around 60" 
Torino is 63"...more like a truck.

This means the sway bar has to be wider.  The only option I found if you want more than 1 1/8" front bar is to custom install a splined sway bar. 

I would rather find one that will bolt on...


I've been looking too, for the Ranchero, and came up with the same results. Might go splined.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 8:30AM
Track width on torino is supposedly same as the earlier fullsize (65-68). Never personally measured it.
Torino frame dimensions are so close to Panther chassis as well, I would think you could adapt it's bars.
We always got parts for the brake upgrade at a you-pull-it yard and rather than fight with the Strut rod's big bolt, we would shear the two little bolts that hold it to the LCA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 10:26AM
I would think the best option might be to find something that'll bolt up to the existing points if widened, then weld in some chromoly tubing to widen it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-June-2017 at 12:35PM
can't find a bigger bar? or hate to spend the $$$? do what i did on my celica (and my ford courier too) with a little ingenuity and fab work... double stack two stock bars Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-June-2017 at 5:39AM
John, I can check the parts catalog later to see if the bars are interchangeable. I thought that they wouldn't swap, going by memory. 
 
Why do you want to go so big in the front?  Personally I'd like to find a bigger than 7/8's rear bar before I upgraded the front.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-June-2017 at 8:54AM
Every sway bar I've looked at to "adapt" has not worked out because of the overall width of the mounting points on our torino's.   If you dont land near the same realative mounting points with the "new" bar it causes other interference problems.   That said...I measure stock eye-to-eye front sway bar at 49 1/4", arm length ~12", frame mounts speration at ~38 1/2".   I haven't found anything that will come close.   I did find some more modern bars say from a 2002 camaro or late model charger but the mounting are completely different where they dont use the same stud through an eye on the bar end mounting configuration.

EDIT If my memory serves me...I think the Galaxy bars are 48" eye-to-eye center which is to far off to be able to reuse on a Torino.  I keep coming back to a custom splined setup for the front.

I always felt teh body plows to much in the turns...I want to control the body roll more to help limit the suspension range under compression to optimize the camber gain.  If you add to much rear bar it will oversteer like crazy...I've already tested this with bigger rear bar and stiffer rear springs.  That backend breaks loose way to easy around a corner.

 Trying to keep the balance front to rear I wanted to control it more with the front bar rather than the rear bar.   I've already put the 7/8 rear bar on...and I feel it helped overall but it made the back end break loose quickly relative to the overall body roll.  

Thats why I'm thinking a good overall combination would be a 1 3/8" front with the 7/8" rear.   If you look at what some suspension kits offered for chevelles (The are not exact but pretty close in size/weight to our car. I did a analytical comparison via spreadsheet between chevelle/torino for comparison between springs/bars and basic suspension geometry) they tend to be in this ballpark for performance street setups.

Oh...also regarding cutting welding up sway bars.  I dont think that it would be a good idea to do that because they are made from spring steel.   Heating it up would wreck the properties of the steel.   Sway bars are also (or should be) heat treated.   Any heat applied would ruin them.

Double up sway bar!  didn't think of that.  How did that work?  


Edited by BackInBlack - 22-June-2017 at 8:58AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-June-2017 at 10:52AM
So, welding up the cracks in the sway bar on my truck ("Quality" G. M.) was a bad idea???
Some considerations for a sway bar:
Width hole-to-hole
Mounting location
"arm" length
vertical offset from mounting location to hole location


Edited by Big Bird - 22-June-2017 at 10:57AM
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-June-2017 at 2:36PM
I'm prolly overthinking it...Analysis paralysis...

I just need to finish it and drive it...see where I'm at then adjust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-June-2017 at 3:32PM
John are you still planning on using CVPI springs in the front? If so, I'd recommend trying the car with those springs and a 1 1/8 bar first before you go to all the work of a custom splined bar. Once you get your springs then I'd play with the bars if you need too. With the heavy front Springs in my car in had no issues with oversteer unless I induced it even with the heavier rear springs. I since soften my rear springs for ride and because it was skipping one rough pavement. The car is very flat in the front with the CVPI springs.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 22-June-2017 at 3:33PM
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