Lares 841 Quick Ratio PS Box |
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unlovedford
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Posted: 09-July-2014 at 9:15AM |
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For those of you that want to drastically improve your steering response and feel, the Lares 841 quick ratio box has been the way to go. In doing my conversion on Stripper, I wanted to chunk the worn manual box in favor of power steering (sold all my spare PS boxes), so I attempted to buy this 841 box. Not available was always the answer. Everywhere. AutoZone, NAPA, O'Reilley's, Advance, Pep Boys...no one could get it. Discontinued was always the remark. They could send off my old slow ratio box for a rebuild (if I had one), but IF it came back (not always was the opinion), it would be a standard ratio. #*$^%@*&$!!!
However, I could not sleep the other evening and was online trying to find a used one to perhaps get someone to rebuild for me and stumbled upon the Advance website. Lo and behold, they offer the 841 FOR HOME SHIPPING ONLY! Tried ordering it, but it would not accept my order. Dang. Then, I discovered that if you sign up on their website, it CAN be ordered...with free shipping! Ordered it with skepticism and it accepted it. Got the shipping confirmation today! Yahoo. Price is $96.29 with a $55.00 core charge that can be refunded through the stores. Awesome. Thought this might be of interest to you guys. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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72GTS351CJ
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I hear all the good things about this box. I thought it was available everywhere. Keep us updated when you get it. I'm wanting to put one in. Thanks Rick
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72GTS Clint Eastwood Special
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72FordGTS
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If the Lares box doesn't work out, you can just do a quick ratio Saginaw box. I had a new box built with 12.7:1 ratio and it makes the car feel much smaller because the steering is so much quicker. The Saginaw box only requires a different rag joint and a different P/S hose, the rest is bolt in. It was a really easy swap. It did cost me a lot more for my custom built box though.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Eliteman76
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Guys ALWAYS check rockauto.com.
$70 plus $50 core. I bought my 841, ps pump and new pressure gates hose from rockauto. I also bought the inline filter for the low pressure return hose. I had always tried to have clean type f fluid...but it was dark red. Of note: USE TYPE F fluid. These gear boxes are not like a late model power steering rack. The "power steering fluid" is not for use in our cars unless you are in a spot and need for an emergency. I get the walmart brand type F and had good luck. Feel free to pm me if questions. Also look at my build thread for info. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
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Note: I used 1978 ford ranchero for my search.
The older ford Thompson style power steering pumps are getting hard to rebuild as parts are just not made for these. I've had discussions with stangers and lares about this. Lares technical phone support was great the guy actually listened and knew his stuff. I'll use their rebuilds again. Rockauto issues refund for cores 5 days after they are verified returned and you get to use their discounted return rate for the return shipment. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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unlovedford
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Never thought od Rock Auto. Good point. I'm fine with the difference in price, since I don't pay/bother for the return shipment and can just plop my manual box on the counter at Advance. No issue with "Hey, this core is not a power box!"
Also, if you cannot go with a later model plastic pump (better pressure) an older Saginaw pump will work quieter and better than our old-style pump. Less whine, better pressure, available everywhere and cheap. Found write-ups on F100 sites as well as Ford car sites on this. Just an FYI. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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mcford
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Mike
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Eliteman76
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I know this is going to sound stupid but I wanted the old metal Thompson pump over the plastic...but that new pump as I call it a g3 third generation ford ps pump (I'm probably wrong so please correct me on the name or type the plastic reservoir pump is technically called by) is common and readily available.
Only thing I noticed was the different fittings used for pressure hoses. I had two but they had adapters for late model metric thread (assuming here it's metric) versus the older style fitting. I just want to be able to shift and bang gears to 5500 rpm, so I'm hoping my belt issues are done. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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unlovedford
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Deep "V" belts and pullies will help curtail throwing belts. I've found that serpentine setups with the spring-loaded tensioner works best. When you wrap that tach needle around, the crank is momentarily spinning faster that the accessories (until they can catch up). Causes the belt to develop enough slack to throw itself off with stationary tension. With a tensioner, it automatically takes up the slack whenever it is detected. Not vintage looking, but I like practicality better (for my purposes) on these cars.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Eliteman76
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Easier said than done on a 351c. Before I added the York ac compressor no real beal issues. Once I added the York that darn huge counterweight gave me fits.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Andy, thanks for the phone call and info yesterday about the Lares and the PS Pump.
Now I need a couple things... 1. Any issue replacing the 72 style pump with the 78 Ranchero pump? Part #s? Price? Best location to buy it/price? 2. What hoses or adapters were needed? Lola's PS pump is whining, I have ALL the new front end stuff to rebuild and replace so this is the time to do the Lares pump, PS Lines, and PS Pump... make the entire system NEW! Joe, how did the AutoZone order and core return work out for you? |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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aquartlow
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FWIW,
I helped a mechanic buddy of mine rebuild my '79 Ranchero's original Saginaw steering box rebuilt with 12.7 (quick steer) internals from a donor '94 Jeep Grand Cherokee steering gear box. No machine work required, used a Gates #350350 rebuild/reseal kit for my '79 box, I kept the original Ranchero input shaft assembly so I wouldn't need to change and/or find a different rag joint. Works great, 2.5 or so turns lock-2-lock, (along with upgraded springs, sway bars & shocks) really makes my big Ranchero feel like it's on rails. Todd
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Regul8r
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Rock Auto.com
here is the box and the pump I am going to get for Lola.
Now have a question about WHICH Gates PS hose do I need??
the last hose is $16.82 Edited by Regul8r - 06-September-2014 at 7:41AM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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aquartlow
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From what I have read and/or seen, the Lares #841 gearbox is a remanned Ford produced/built steering box, uses the smaller fitting on the high pressure input hose as compared to a Saginaw box. My Saginaw box uses an 11/16 wrench sized pressure hose inverted flare fitting on a 7/16 steel line, your Ford/Lares box should use a 5/8" wrench sized inv. flare fitting on a 3/8 steel line. Hope this helps.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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That's correct.
Buy the gates hoses. They are the correct shape and length! Don't get me going on the hoses I have gotten from Edelman or some other house brands from advanced and Oriellys... |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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unlovedford
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The Advance return went very well. No questions asked. Yep, when I get hoses, I doubt I'll go with the house brands.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Eliteman76
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Carl, I've tried to outline this conversion on my progress thread. I am still needing to update my thread, but I've had to modify the bracket for the Thompson pump, but I simply used a cut off wheel and a die grinder to clearance the opening.
After my install, I love the box. Replace the pitman arm. Replace the idler arm. HUGE difference. I will say if your old box was a 4 turn, or a 3.5 turn lock to lock, you need to relearn how you drive. I had my accidentally grab my arm when I wasn't paying attention, she yanked on my arm and in turn I yanked the wheel and the car reacted and spooked me bad. Wasn't expecting a prompt response.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Billy C
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Ok, so..
How many turns lock to lock is the Lares 841?
What's that in terms of gear ratio? What's the stock box in terms of lock to lock and ratio? What is the Saginaw? Is there a variety of ratios to choose from in this type? What else does the Saginaw require besides swapped internals? Lot's of good info here and in some other threads regarding this same topic. I'm just trying to get the data all together to see what the real comparison is looking like. |
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-Billy Conturo
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Eliteman76
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3 turns ltl on the Lares 841
No clue on ratio, sorry.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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72FordGTS
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The Saginaw steering box is a GM build box. The stock Ford boxes our cars use are 4 turns lock to lock (not installed) and have a box ratio of about 20:1. They are slow, and awful for any spirited driving. Ford used these steering boxes in 1971-73 Mustangs and some of 72-79 midsize Fords also used them (most seem to use Ford boxes). The big advantage to the Saginaw box over the factory Ford box is there was way more variations made, variable ratios and very quick boxes. Ford boxes only come in the very common slow ratio box and this Lares 841 box. Ford used a quick ratio saginaw box in the 1971-73 Mustangs that is about 3 turns lock to lock (I don't recall the ratio). However, they made Saginaw boxes up to 12.7:1 for other GM applications, which quicker than a Lares 841. You need to find a Saginaw core with a Ford frame bolt pattern as a core. A builder can build you almost any ratio you want. The only changes need to make it work is a new over-the counter P/S line and a different steering coupler. Other than that it's bolt in. I had a steering box builder build me a Saginaw 12.7:1 box (I didn't have a core) and it cost about $300. It has about 2.5 turns lock to lock and feels 100 times more agile. As a bonus Saginaw boxes are smaller and lighter than the factory boxes and may give more clearance for headers.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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aquartlow
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Andrew, As always, nice work with great info.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Regul8r
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well, turned out my fluid was low because I have a slow leak somewhere.
Noticed some spots on the ground lately. Filled it up and all is good and quiet now. So with the entire new front end parts ready for rebuild I am going to order the Lares box. That way the entire steering suspension will be NEW! |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Eliteman76
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I have a 71-73 boss mustang spat code box. I bought it from Paul psquare75 but didn't use. Minor seal leak. I have $260 in it. Paul bought for his 78 xr7 but went to a standard box.
I was going to install but left my original box to my car until it was too loose to drive. I went lares 841. Anyone interested? |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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wylroy
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hi all, i'm happy to have found this forum. i found this question on LARES 841.
i have a Ford Torino 1976 V8 6.6L 400 cid i have a power Steering Gear LARES 841 to mount. but i did'nt found the right pitman arm that fit with... i tried à MOOG K8217 https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=203307&cc=1141546&jsn=3 The hole of these two part is slightly too small to fit the steering gear axe LARES 841... can somebodu help me to find the good part "pitman arm" which fit with the steering gear LARES 841 ? thanks all
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Eliteman76
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Roy I was looking in my deal. I thought I reused my original pitman arm off my box.
I did end up replacing my arm with a moog arm I got off eBay years ago but no part number that can been seen. I know there were different lengths available in between 1972 to1979 model years for the assorted ford intermediates and full size cars. Any pictures comparing the two? Edited by Eliteman76 - 08-June-2017 at 3:41AM |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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GTorino75
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I am having the same problem with the Lares 841 box too. the Moog 8217 pitman fits too tight over the sector shaft where the nut cannot be fully threaded on. |
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GTorino75
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Does anyone know if Ford used different sector shaft sizes between intermediate and full size cars. is it possible that Lares rebuilt my box with a larger sector shaft by accident?
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Eliteman76
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Guys, I was looking. I found a picture of Moog K8185 for the idler arm.
Nothing however for the part number from my parts stock. However, I looked and rock auto, under 1978 Ranchero with the 400, Moog K8256 *editing this. I'd suggest replacing the idler arm and the pitman at the same time to ensure they are matched.
Edited by Eliteman76 - 20-July-2017 at 4:18PM |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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aquartlow
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Andy,
As you stated above, the Moog K8256 pitman arm is for a 77-79 T-bird, Ranchero and LTD II that matches Ford part number D7OZ-8590B. The 76 & earlier intermediates used a Moog K8217, not sure what the differences are between the two. maybe geometry, length or a clearance issue. I do know the center linkage(attaches to pitman arm) is different for 76-prior and 77-79 intermediates, so that alone may have mandated the design change.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Eliteman76
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Todd I didn't think about that.
The only thing I know is the full-size Ford's used a different Pitman arm then the intermediates did for whatever reason. Considering the full-size cars and the intermediates pretty much have the same frame I never understood why that was the case. If I recall correctly the full-size cars used a longer Pitman. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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