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Direct Link To This Post Topic: low 87 octane 460 budget build
    Posted: 09-November-2010 at 4:26PM
carcraft has an engine build thats layed out to a T. With parts, prices, and tips. Dyno results on cheap gas. With killer TQ and good HP. Super low comp 8.8:1 433-HP 491-TQ.
 
I just got the 73 GTS back with a 351c rebuilt for HP with a 2400 stall. I was offered a 460 and looking at the motor builds online I came across this. Right now I get 4.5-12mpg (depending on conditions) so going to the 460 wont bother me at all :)
 
The machine shop guy just put a 460 in a truck, and at any point you hit the gas the tires break loose, you can do a rolling burn out 45mph! So I am looking to build something like the 87oct build but with flat pistons and a slightly bigger cam. My heads are 92cc closed chamber.
 
 Anyway go check out the info its great!
1973 GTS-351c C6 28sp axle 2.73gears (looking to change)



2004 electric wheelchair super fast!



Disabled Iraq Vet, IED boke my back and severed my nerves into my legs I can walk but it hurts bad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-November-2010 at 4:55PM

Which Car Craft? This coming month's edition?

The articles they've done with the Chevrolet 454 were impressive - the $3000 454 all rebuilt. And then they started putting parts onto it.

Scott Eklund

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-November-2010 at 7:21PM
I am not sure it might be old, I just saw it and was amazed. Can some one please tell me what shocks and springs I need to order to hold up the 460, I love these adjustabl ones from advanced but it's the same part number for the 351 and 460 I figured the 460 would be stiffer. I need to know springs as well. Please give me part names, numbers, and exact locations to look for them
Thank y'all so much, please keep helping I am so close to having the Torino finished for everyone to see!!!
1973 GTS-351c C6 28sp axle 2.73gears (looking to change)



2004 electric wheelchair super fast!



Disabled Iraq Vet, IED boke my back and severed my nerves into my legs I can walk but it hurts bad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-November-2010 at 2:26AM
I usually use small block springs with my big blocks, and a larger front sway bar. Shocks are the same regardless. 


Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-November-2010 at 11:10AM
Originally posted by GranTorinoSport GranTorinoSport wrote:

Which Car Craft? This coming month's edition?

The articles they've done with the Chevrolet 454 were impressive - the $3000 454 all rebuilt. And then they started putting parts onto it.


Old one from 2001 or so. Westec is also known for having a "happy" dyno. Take the #s with a grain of salt. Nice to compare the different brands, done on the same dyno, though.
'72, GTSFB, 460, C6, 3.70
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2010 at 5:10PM
Get a roller cam with a grind you want.  The lack of friction on the cam helps the power  increase .
 I got a custom grind from crane several years ago . The duration is 278  intake & 286 degrees exhaust  at .050 lift is 216 intake & 224 on exhaust with .556 lift intake & .580 lift exhaust .I am using 1.71 ratio roller rockers.  Max rpm at 5400 rpm & valve float at 6000 rpm. Torque is 520 ft/lbs at 3100 rpm and stays over 500 ft/lbs untill 4900 rpm . Peak hp is 488 hp @ 5400 and torque at the same rpm is 488 ft/lbs. I find it not a bad street /strip cam .
I hope this may help.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-November-2010 at 5:26PM
There is no replacement for displacement.
Alex
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-November-2010 at 7:44AM
How is the hydraulic roller holding up? I hear lots of stories about failed lifters on 460ford.com
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-November-2010 at 2:47AM
I had no problems  . I have heard comp cams having problems with lobs wearning out . | have seen a crane cam broken in two in a mopar engine. As things go a okay.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-November-2010 at 4:43AM
I am finally back from overseas and getting back into the swing again.
I just did a rebuild due to a cam failure on my 477. Comp Cam but convinced I had two lifters stop rotating that caused the issue.
If you keep it clean, triple check your engine work, clearances, etc... and follow the correct proceedures you will be fine.
I have seen failures in all types of engines and manufacturers cams over the years and typically they are self induced.
 
Eric
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-November-2010 at 3:56PM
I have been thinking on my 429 and hoping to get close to 450 HP out of it after I rebuild and upgrade perfomance.Stock 429 2v Thunderjet was rated at 320 hp and 4v TJ was 360 horse.need a gain of 130 hp for my 429 2v.700cfm 4 bbl,aluminum intake port and polished,cam,headers,headwork and roller rockers might not be enough.Compression is 10.5:1 stock hoping to keep that as it would save me money from buying pistons.but at worst upgrade to 11:1 but want to keep it streetable on pump gas so no higher then that.Would love to get aluminum heads but cheapest I found was Ford Motorsports for around $2K might not be in the budget when it comes time but is easy 50 hp bolt on
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 2:33AM
The 10.5:1 can be a pain to tune for IMO. I had to do some work to get my 523" street friendly at 10.2ish:1
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 3:45AM

Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

The 10.5:1 can be a pain to tune for IMO. I had to do some work to get my 523" street friendly at 10.2ish:1


Why is it a pain? I have a '68 10.5 motor that I got for free, and was intending on keeping the stock compression... unless it ends up being a bad idea...? 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 4:04AM
well It's 10.5 stock and doubt that adding a 4 bbl is gonna make it worse,might have to rejet or something but it runs like a raped ape now.can't keep the tire from spinning so I need to get a locker for the rear.Years ago my friend had a 79 4x4 Bronco with built 429 and 4 spd,thing was a pulling machine and hauled but might have been a 11:1 4v motor but if 11:1 is better then i'll change pistons.I really think it depends on the cam selection with the cc heads and matching everything including your carb size to really dial a motor in right.These older motors are alot better then the new 72 - up detuned and polution controlled engines IMO.I'll get the heads done with hardened valve seats for unleaded fuel but really don't think it will be a big problem to run the stock compression.If i'm able to get the aluminum heads well then the build will go in a different direction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 4:57AM
The problem Psquare is referring to is detonation. Thinking that just because an engine is "stock" it should work fine on todays pump gas will get you in trouble. If this was 1969 and you could pull up to the pump and fill-r-up with some near 100 octane leaded premium, things would be good. The lead actually helped reduce the detonation because of it's lubrication qualities along with the higher available octane rating. I admit that the way octane is figured has changed, but I don't think anyone would argue that todays pump gas isn't the same as good old premium from back in the day. 
 
In todays reality, 10.5 and up cars of the '60s ping like crazy on todays gas. Sure, you could back the timing way down and over jet it some to help cut down on it, but power will suffer and it will probably still detonate under a hard load. A large cam with some serious overlap can help reduce cylinder pressure and make a high compression engine more streetable. Aluminum heads also allow for more compression on the street with quicker combustion chamber cooling.
 
Doing a one wheel wonder burnout with no real load against the engine is one thing, standing on it in 2nd gear out on the highway is quite another. I've driven a few of these '68-'71 Lincolns and T-Birds with 10.5-11.0 compression and even a light touch on the throttle in the right conditions will result in pinging.
 
If you're going to run that kind of compression on the street, take what Psquare said seriously, and plan on doing a lot of trial and error tuning until it's drivable. I've decided to take things in a different direction and convert to E-85. More than enough octane to get the job done, more horsepower and currently cheaper than pump gas. It'll be nice to put the timing and jetting back where it belongs....Cool 
Scott -'73 Gran Torino Brougham

Past Torino's -'73 Q-code GTS, '76 Original PS-122 S&H, '73 H-code GTS, '73 Ranchero
        '71 Cobra 351 Auto, '70 351C Brougham 2dr HT, '71 351C Ranchero
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 5:32AM
On the cam I mentioned does the profile show any interest to anyone . It cost more to start as a custom grind ,but it runs with less loppy as to a comp cams magnum 280, with more power .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 7:45AM
Originally posted by Skinnys Garage Skinnys Garage wrote:

The problem Psquare is referring to is detonation. 

This.. I have iron heads. It took quite a bit of work to remove detonation. Different distributor with adjustable (EASILY adjustable) timing curve.. air cleaner set up with a cool air induction, colder plugs, etc. I still had some engine cooling issues with this timing setup, so I ended up with an aluminum radiator and electric fan as well. But, I can at least run 93 w/o an octane boost now. We'll see how it runs in the summer months. It's been slow going for sure. Don't think it'll be a set it and forget it deal. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 12:36PM
All that to get rid of detonation? I run 13-1 compression on my 351c 2V heads. High test gas and no det at all. During engine brake in I used 100% gas, now I fill up at BP with high test and thats 10% ethanol. If I run mid or low grade it dets, also if I use other gas from other companies it will sometimes too. But when I use BP, or local 100% nada.
1973 GTS-351c C6 28sp axle 2.73gears (looking to change)



2004 electric wheelchair super fast!



Disabled Iraq Vet, IED boke my back and severed my nerves into my legs I can walk but it hurts bad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 5:33PM
Hey, I dunno what to tell you, lol. All I know is when I first put the engine in, anything resembling part throttle caused a ton of detonation. I was adamant about vacuum advance being hooked up, so I had to do some work. All I have here is E10. It was a steep learning curve for me. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-November-2010 at 6:44PM
thats weird i'm running 87 octane in mine now,stomped on it in second and no ping,just went.Wonder if the 2 bbl is making it run better with the lower octane.I have yet to put any mid or high octane in it.Soon as I get the new water pump and belts back on i'll take it for a test drive and see if it detonates or stays the same.Do they still make the lead substitute you put in your fuel.I used it in the early 90's for my 351C cause couldn't get leaded fuel here but AZ still had leaded in 92 when I had it out there and the bargain price of $1.03 a gallon.Boy do I miss those days
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