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More Efficiency and Power for 400ci V8?

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    Posted: 17-August-2016 at 11:14PM
So I've read quite a bit about this engine and some possibilities to tweak it a little bit lately, but I'd still appreciate some opinions from you guys. Smile
I've got the 335 series 400cui in my 73 GTS and since these engines, well, leave a bit of room for improvement, I'd like to use some of that if possible. Wink

My goal is to gain a bit of efficiency and a bit of power for normal driving, not in terms of performance. I say only a bit of both because I'm not going full enigne rebuild. So no new headers oder cylinder heads for example. Only things that can be done without too much of a hassle and without too much money.

My idea at the moment would be to start with an Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold and fitting Edelbrock Performer Carburetor. Probably also a Performer Timing Chain Set. Changing these parts would be within my budget and abilities and in my mind it should make a least a little difference. It's tempting to get a better camshaft as well, of course, but I think that's the point where it gets difficult.

Does that make sense or am I going the wrong way? Question

Any opinions or suggestions welcome Smile




Edited by Torino_Chris - 18-August-2016 at 2:51AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 6:10AM

I also have a 400 Ford in my Torino and I have done the modifications you listed.  The 4bbl carburetor and the intake manifold were good upgrades for power.  I used a Edlebrock Performer intake, and a Holley 670 Street Avenger Carb.  This definitely improved throttle response and upper RPM power.  The carb I chose worked very well out of the box, the jet sizes seem to be decent for this engine.  But I am sure if I could tuned it bit better if I had a wideband 02.  I also replaced my timing chain, but I used a Cloyes double roller.  Seems very good quality.  In your case being a 1973 car, the factory set is retarded.  So a straight up set would help make the engine more responsive.

 
Overall these mods will definitely improve the power and performance, but I doubt you'll see any improvement in fuel economy.  If that were my primary concern, I'd keep the stock 2bbl 2100 and get it rebuilt and dialed in well.  I know from the old fuel economy records from my Torino, it could get pretty decent mileage when it was stock and well tuned.
 
You can also consider headers, but choices are limited.  Hooker makes a full length header in their super comp line, but they are expensive:
 
 
The other option is Sanderson Shorty headers.  Part FC4 is designed for a Mustang but they may fit without issues:
 
 
This guy installed these headers into a Ford fullsize wagon, with a 351M (same block and deck height as a 400 Ford).  These cars are pretty similar in Chassis setup and he states the headers fit no problem on his car.  These are likely the headers I am going to try with my car when I get to that stage.
 
 
The big issue with a stock 400 is the excessive deck clearances and low compression.  In my opinion it's not worthwhile to upgrade the cam with stock pistons.  I thought about doing that for a while on my car, but I decided it's better just to do a complete build when I have the money.
 
If you have any questions about the install of any of the parts, let me know.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n2fordwagons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 6:28AM
A dual exhaust (with or without X pipe) probably wouldn't hurt with both fuel economy and power.  I'd recommend 2 1/4" pipes.  I'm not sure if yours has Cats.  I know you're not supposed to get rid of them, but I'd find an exhaust shop that will, and do true duals from the manifolds back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 9:04AM
The 400 with a 4bbl manifold and a carb with small primaries will get better mileage than with the stock 2100 IF you keep ypur foot out of it. That "IF" is the hard part.
Depending on miles/wear, you may be due for a timing chain anyway, and a straight-up set isn't gonna hurt. At that point, you have the intake off and the front opened up...
Heads and cam are pretty tempting at that point.Big smile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stanman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 9:11AM
Wouldn't there be an aftermarket camshaft that could up the torque some? Cam technology has come a long way in 40+ years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 10:03AM
Different application, but the 2 mods I have done that helped power and mileage the most was installing a wideband and installing an electric cooling fan. The wideband allows you to tune the carb for your application more accurately and the electric fan(s) get rid of the heavy fan/fan clutch or the high drag of a flex fan and only tax the alternator when needed at slow vehicle speeds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 10:57AM
Allan has a 400 in the black '67 LTD, and it is very healthy. Performer intake, Edelbrock carb, really good tune, and dual pipes. It runs very well. An H or X pipe will help, but will quiet the car down a smidgen. His ran great, averaged decent mileage for the size car and ran like a top for 5-6 hour trips. I was quite surprised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 11:40AM
Originally posted by n2fordwagons n2fordwagons wrote:

A dual exhaust (with or without X pipe) probably wouldn't hurt with both fuel economy and power. 
 
I forgot to mention duals, but that's what I run on my setup.  I just have an "H" pipe and dual flowmasters.  I believe this Torino in question already has duals from the pics I saw.
 
Originally posted by stanman stanman wrote:

Wouldn't there be an aftermarket camshaft that could up the torque some? Cam technology has come a long way in 40+ years.
 
I thought this too, but talking with a bunch of 335 series experts, the consensus was with the low compression ratio it's probably not worth the effort.  Furthermore it may require a ton of other parts, springs, retainers, lifters, etc, it all adds up. In the end I decided it wasn't worth the benefit especially for a older high mile motor.
 
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Different application, but the 2 mods I have done that helped power and mileage the most was installing a wideband and installing an electric cooling fan. 
 
I agree with you 100%, especially on the wideband.  I plan to do this to my car soon to get my carb tuned better.
 
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

Allan has a 400 in the black '67 LTD, and it is very healthy. Performer intake, Edelbrock carb, really good tune, and dual pipes. It runs very well. An H or X pipe will help, but will quiet the car down a smidgen. His ran great, averaged decent mileage for the size car and ran like a top for 5-6 hour trips. I was quite surprised.
 
What your desecribing sound like my car.  My 400 was always a strong performer, even in stock form.  But the new carb, intake, exhaust, electronic ignition, a good tune on the spark curve, and the dual exhaust really woke it up.  It pulls strong, especially down low and mid range, but the small cam means it doesn't make a ton of top end power.  I just took mine 300 miles couple of weeks ago, ran like a champ and fuel consumption was decent.
 


Edited by 72FordGTS - 18-August-2016 at 11:41AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 4:17PM
I'd love to see someone do a low buck warm up of a 400. closed chamber 4v heads to get compression and breathin up for the larger cubes, slightly larger then stock cam (again more cubes will tolerate more cam for a stock stall converter), performer intake, 750 vac sec carb, exhasut etc.   What kind of cruise speed will the car see mostly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 5:39PM
Question on the 400 - When I had the LTD, it ran, but not great. Allan gets it, puts a really fine tune on it (carb, timing) and it ran like you added another 100 horses. Same intake, carb, exhaust as was on it when I owned it. My question is this, it now sounds like it has a nice cam in it, although it did not sound that way at all before the tune (admittedly, it barely ran). Hits a nice lick, instantaneous response, fast starting. Allan and I discussed it at length, and although the cam is unknown, has anyone here with a 400 experienced a stock cam "coming alive" after getting some detailed attention? Is this a known 400 trait?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 5:49PM
joe, did allan put in a new chain? years age my dad had a 76 f100 4x4 with a well used 360, years down the line another buddy got it, he told me it now is awesome, told me to go drive it Shocked so then i asked him what the hell did he do to it --rebuild it??? he said no, just a timing chain!!! ShockedShocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 6:23PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

joe, did allan put in a new chain? years age my dad had a 76 f100 4x4 with a well used 360, years down the line another buddy got it, he told me it now is awesome, told me to go drive it Shocked so then i asked him what the hell did he do to it --rebuild it??? he said no, just a timing chain!!! ShockedShocked


yep, take into account the factory retard built into them and add 80k+ miles on em and they can act real lazy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torino_Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 9:32PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

At that point, you have the intake off and the front opened up...
Heads and cam are pretty tempting at that point.Big smile
 


LOL That's true, but that really exceeds my budget and expertise. I also don't want to change it too much from the original.

So from your answers I understand that a new timing chain set would be worth the effort, if just because it is probabyly worn out anyway. Also nice to eliminate some of the factory retardery with little money.

Dual exhausts are already installed and are still as new. I think that's an H-Pipe I've got there. So that's taken care of already Thumbs Up

Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

...2 mods I have done that helped power and mileage the most was installing a wideband and installing an electric cooling fan. The wideband allows you to tune the carb for your application more accurately and the electric fan(s) get rid of the heavy fan/fan clutch or the high drag of a flex fan and only tax the alternator when needed at slow vehicle speeds.


Sorry but..what is a wideband? Embarrassed
I've already read about that fan thing, that might be something to look into as well at some point I think. Gotta check how much I can change such things without losing the "historic" registration status.

As for giving the stock carb a good tune, that thing is leaky anyway. So I might as well exchange it with an edelbrock and then take my time to rebuild the stock one, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2016 at 11:46PM
Originally posted by Torino_Chris Torino_Chris wrote:

Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

At that point, you have the intake off and the front opened up...
Heads and cam are pretty tempting at that point.Big smile
 


LOL That's true, but that really exceeds my budget and expertise. I also don't want to change it too much from the original.

So from your answers I understand that a new timing chain set would be worth the effort, if just because it is probabyly worn out anyway. Also nice to eliminate some of the factory retardery with little money.

Dual exhausts are already installed and are still as new. I think that's an H-Pipe I've got there. So that's taken care of already Thumbs Up

Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

...2 mods I have done that helped power and mileage the most was installing a wideband and installing an electric cooling fan. The wideband allows you to tune the carb for your application more accurately and the electric fan(s) get rid of the heavy fan/fan clutch or the high drag of a flex fan and only tax the alternator when needed at slow vehicle speeds.


Sorry but..what is a wideband? Embarrassed
I've already read about that fan thing, that might be something to look into as well at some point I think. Gotta check how much I can change such things without losing the "historic" registration status.

As for giving the stock carb a good tune, that thing is leaky anyway. So I might as well exchange it with an edelbrock and then take my time to rebuild the stock one, right?
 
A wideband is basically an air/fuel gauge, it monitors how lean or rich your engine is running, really helps with power, mileage and drivability. I use this cheap, but reliable wideband:
 It really helped with tuning both of my Holley carbs(770 and 870 Street Avengers) for more power, drivability and mileage. Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 5:19AM
No timing chain swap by Allan. Actually, I now remember having a light blue '74 Ranchero GT with the 400 I scrapped that had new duals but was still running the stock intake and carb. It ran well, but did not sound and run like his.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 5:40AM
Maybe his 400 is a 71 as they had flat top pistons and higher compression than any other factory 400. 1971 and 72 also ran straight up timing set. I believe the earlier 400 had different cam specs too. Who knows the engine could have a small cam too.

All I know is my 72 400 has always run strong. I think the later 400 weren't as reponsive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 3:23PM
the problem with the 'post 1971' 400 is the lack of compression ratio & thermal efficiency
 
bolt-on's are just lipstick on a pig
 
w/o going into the bottom end, a set of Australian closed chamber heads, a cam and distributor recurve can wake the crap out of the 400 & still appear bone stock with the factory intake carb & log manifolds
 
on paper the stock CR is barely 8:1, in realville it's less. if the engine doesn't make power in the combustion chamber there's nothing you can do to fix that after the fact Embarrassed 
 
maybe Allen's not telling something LOL ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 3:46PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

the problem with the 'post 1971' 400 is the lack of compression ratio & thermal efficiency
 
bolt-on's are just lipstick on a pig
 
w/o going into the bottom end, a set of Australian closed chamber heads, a cam and distributor recurve can wake the crap out of the 400 & still appear bone stock with the factory intake carb & log manifolds
 
on paper the stock CR is barely 8:1, in realville it's less. if the engine doesn't make power in the combustion chamber there's nothing you can do to fix that after the fact Embarrassed 
 
maybe Allen's not telling something LOL ?
 
Rock, you're the resident 335 series expert here (or at least that's what I think), so maybe you could answer a couple of questions.  Everyone talks as if the 1971 400 was the holy grail of Ford 400's, but I am not sure how much more powerful it was than the later 400's.  I have a bunch of old magazine road tests, including ones of the 1971 Ford full-size cars with 400's. The performance numbers on the 1971, 1972, 1973 cars all are pretty much the same?  Now I know that you can't put too much weight in magazine tests, but to me it seems like the real world performance wasn't all that much different. 
 
I know that actual compression ratios on these engines were less than what Ford quoted, so maybe that was the case too for the 1971 engine.  What I always found interesting is that the 71 is listed at 9.0:1, the 1972's were listed at 8.4:1, than 1973 and newer are 8:1.  I know most people group 1972 and newer 400's together, but do you think there may have actually been a compression difference in 1972?  Why would Ford have quoted that number otherwise? 
 
Wouldn't a set of Australian heads with stock deck clearances be a recipe for excessive detonation? 
 
Again I can say that the bolts on did make an improvement in my 400 overall, but it's got a long way to come yet.  I just plan on doing the entire engine and want to use TMI pistons to make some real power.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 4:28PM
Aw Shucks, ... thanks man!
 
I just found this I'm reading it as you are, or maybe you've seen it?
 
 
I was aware of the 15-16cc dish piston but have not ever heard of the 32cc Shocked piston
 
using .065" deck clearance;
 
an 8:1 400 with 16cc pistons and stock 78cc heads, change to 63cc heads it makes 9:1
 
a 32cc piston 400 makes 7.17:1, change to 63cc heads and it makes 7.95:1
 
do we think 9:1 can run on goat piss 89 octane?


Edited by Rockatansky - 19-August-2016 at 4:47PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 4:55PM
several mentions of a 'small cam'
 
this can be used to trick the engine into thinking it has more compression ratio, specifically Dynamic Compression Ratio, it takes into consideration the timing of the intake valve closing and the cylinder actually starting to compress the contents 
 
'BIG' performance cams close the intake valve later in hopes of a scavenging effect helping to pull in more air/fuel, there is less available stroke left from the time the valve closes to compress - lower DCR
 
'small' cams close the intake valve earlier and the result is more stroke / time available for compression - higher DCR 


Edited by Rockatansky - 19-August-2016 at 5:00PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2016 at 5:15PM
as far as the slight differences in published CR making a difference, I don't think they give a Censored
 
I just remembered the time I drove a 1979 F series strap tow truck on a fairly long recovery, 351M / manual trans / un-known rear gear. I may be off a point or 2 but as I recall the MPG only changed by about .7 with a mid 70's Grand Marquis on the hook, 7.9 mpg empty & 7.2 pulling it home
 
in their drastic state of de-tune they just don't respond much to anything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnrlee01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2016 at 2:15PM
ive got a hi-po roller cam, lifter, valve spring and other goodies set for the 400 if anyone is interested in it. i cant use it since i no longer have the engine to put them in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2016 at 3:04PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

 
I just found this I'm reading it as you are, or maybe you've seen it?
 
 
I was aware of the 15-16cc dish piston but have not ever heard of the 32cc Shocked piston
 
 
I haven't seen that particular link before, but it looks like it was just copied and pasted from Bubba's M-block page. 
 
I was doing some reading on his page today and it seems that there were about 8 different 400 cylinder head castings. They all varied the combustion chamber volume quite a bit more than I expected, since most just say that the 400's have 78cc heads, but it looks like they actually ranged from about 74-78cc.  They also have one head that is cast 1971 only, one 1971-1973 (early) than one head 1973-74. 
 
http://grantorinosport.org/BubbaF250/parts/parts02.html
 
Also it looks like there are at least three different part numbers for 400 pistons, D1AZ6108A-B, D2AZ6108G-H and D3AZ6108G-H.   So maybe the 1972 engines did have a bit higher compression ration than the 1973 engines like Ford listed.  After reading all this and seeing the smaller head CC size, I am almost wondering if the smaller 74 cc heads were used with the 32cc pistons.  I don't know, bubba's page isn't complete and nobody else really took an interested in documenting factory 400 parts because they were low-po engines even in there best form.
 
Also came across this thread here where the guy has a 1972 400 - GT40man.  He claims where he tears down the engine, it has flat tops.  When I tear my engine down, I will have to see what mine has and what the actual CC of the heads are.
 
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71570-help-id-351m-c-400-a-2.html
 
In any case, it seems most 400's were built post 1975 with the worst heads, lowest compression, and tuned for really low RPM power  These are the engines most people seem to have experience with, not the 1971-74 engines.  That said, I do think these early 400 are more responsive than people give them credit for.  My '72 is no rocket, but it's not a slouch either (for reference my daily driver has almost 400 hp) especially compared to many of the other smogger era engines I have driven.  I know I have talk to a few others who have driven early 400's that claimed they were decent performers too (as a lo-po V8).


Edited by 72FordGTS - 20-August-2016 at 3:06PM
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2016 at 3:13PM
Back to the original post, like I said, I have almost the same car and same engine as him.  I can say without a doubt the 4bbl car and intake and the timing chain are worthwhile upgrades.  My timing chain was straight up OEM, but I replaced it due to the age and risk of the nylon teeth breaking down, but a straight up timing chain on a 1973 engine would definitely make it more responsive.  That said, I also converted my distributor from points to electronic, played with the ignition advance too.  These things really made the engine much more responsive and have better high RPM performance.
 
Another consideration instead of a 4bbl carb update, could also be using one of those FITech Fuel injection systems.  This would surely improve drivability, and likely performance and MPG.  A little more money than a carb, but at least with a stock 400 you could run the cheapest setup.  The only issue I have read with these systems is when you used the optional Fuel Command Center.  Seems the best bet is to just run an electric pump with a feed and return line.  A bit more work, but still not that hard.
 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torino_Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-August-2016 at 10:03PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

the problem with the 'post 1971' 400 is the lack of compression ratio & thermal efficiency
 
bolt-on's are just lipstick on a pig
 
w/o going into the bottom end, a set of Australian closed chamber heads, a cam and distributor recurve can wake the crap out of the 400 & still appear bone stock with the factory intake carb & log manifolds
 
on paper the stock CR is barely 8:1, in realville it's less. if the engine doesn't make power in the combustion chamber there's nothing you can do to fix that after the fact Embarrassed 
 


No argument about that obviously. But like a I said, I don't want to transform it into a performance engine or anything and I also don't want to change it from stock too much. I was just wondering if it would be worth it to help it breathe a little better, and if that would make a difference in everyday ease of driving that's noticeable Smile Improving MPGs seems to be rather hopeless as it seems LOL

Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Back to the original post, like I said, I have almost the same car and same engine as him.  I can say without a doubt the 4bbl car and intake and the timing chain are worthwhile upgrades.  My timing chain was straight up OEM, but I replaced it due to the age and risk of the nylon teeth breaking down, but a straight up timing chain on a 1973 engine would definitely make it more responsive.  That said, I also converted my distributor from points to electronic, played with the ignition advance too.  These things really made the engine much more responsive and have better high RPM performance.
 
Another consideration instead of a 4bbl carb update, could also be using one of those FITech Fuel injection systems.  This would surely improve drivability, and likely performance and MPG.  A little more money than a carb, but at least with a stock 400 you could run the cheapest setup.


Vince, that sounds encouraging Thumbs Up I think I'm not ready to start messing with the ignition yet, but we'll see. I just bought the car, so.. Smile

Installing an EFI System is too much of a difference from the original for my taste. These enginges are fed by carbs and it should stay that way for mine :-) But thanks for suggesting it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2016 at 4:37AM
Originally posted by Torino_Chris Torino_Chris wrote:



No argument about that obviously. But like a I said, I don't want to transform it into a performance engine or anything and I also don't want to change it from stock too much. I was just wondering if it would be worth it to help it breathe a little better, and if that would make a difference in everyday ease of driving that's noticeable Smile Improving MPGs seems to be rather hopeless as it seems LOL
 
the breathing is not the issue, the engine doesn't do anything worthwhile with the air it gets. swapping the heads for dead ringer stock look alikes will only change the thermal efficiency, exactly what you've deemed 'hopeless'. the Australian 302C heads I refer to are externally almost identical with the same 2V porting and retain the use of the stock original 2bbl intake. there are car show judges that can't spot them. as far as being too performance, not unless you get really serious building the rest of the internal engine, the Aus heads only bring the compression ratio up to what it should be for a normal production engine. you could do the head swap w/o the cam & see where you're at as far as being satisfied, or wait until you get more experience & confidence in your own wrenching abilities under your belt to open up the front cover ... but as mentioned that is where the 2nd major issue with the 400 hides, the timing sprockets. they really need to be addressed before the nylon covering from the cam sprocket fouls the entire engine!
 
 
 
 
these pics are of the oil pump screen clogged with debris, the Yellow stuff is nylon from the cam sprocket. see the clean spot on the screen in the 2nd pic? when the screen clogged completely the suction from the pump pulled the screen away from the metal strap that covers a hole in the screen, and all the jank that was there got sucked into the pump. that's why this engine out of the car & dead on it's back
 
it's possible that your engine has already been serviced with a steel cam sprocket, maybe ?
 
I'd do the preventive maint service before it's too late, and add some common sense upgrades like compression & camshaft for the satisfaction. visually it will look exactly as it does now, the only tell will be that it doesn't run like a turd
 
all the help you need is here when you're ready Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2016 at 6:13AM
yep, that's what the screen in my blazer looked like! when i bought it! first thing was swap in another engine because the clog took out the #3 main bearing Cry

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79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2016 at 6:52AM
Never really understood the nylon gear teeth install. I have yet to hear a double roller or "regular" timing set make ANY appreciable noise that could be heard above the fan and/or exhaust noise. More of just an issue waiting to happen(Teeth shearing off). I remember seeing/helping my dad change a timing set on his '73 Ranchero w/ 351C 4barrel and wondering then why there was plastic teeth on the timing gear(and I was 10-11 at the time--gearhead in the making).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torino_Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2016 at 7:59AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

... but as mentioned that is where the 2nd major issue with the 400 hides, the timing sprockets. they really need to be addressed before the nylon covering from the cam sprocket fouls the entire engine!
 
 
 
 
these pics are of the oil pump screen clogged with debris, the Yellow stuff is nylon from the cam sprocket. see the clean spot on the screen in the 2nd pic? when the screen clogged completely the suction from the pump pulled the screen away from the metal strap that covers a hole in the screen, and all the jank that was there got sucked into the pump. that's why this engine out of the car & dead on it's back
 
it's possible that your engine has already been serviced with a steel cam sprocket, maybe ?
 
I'd do the preventive maint service before it's too late, and add some common sense upgrades like compression & camshaft for the satisfaction. visually it will look exactly as it does now, the only tell will be that it doesn't run like a turd
 
all the help you need is here when you're ready Big smile


So you're saying I should install a new timing chain set to prevent this happening to me, right? How difficult is that when you've never done it before?

I have no idea wether this might have been done already or not..but it sure sounds like I want to check it Shocked
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"...what's it all about, guess it just reflects my moooood..." ;) (The Rolling Stones)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-August-2016 at 8:42AM
todd: yes that's the reason i was told ...to prevent noise, yeah i've never heard a steel gear and chain make noise either!!!

chris: it's not too bad of a job...remove the water pump,hoses and probably the radiator as well, harmonic balancer (harmonic balancer puller needed) and a few bolts at the front of the oil pan and bolts around the timing cover , oh and remove the fuel pump
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74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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