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Andys74 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08-October-2017 at 3:28AM
I’ve been so close to having my torino at a good spot to be able to have some fun with it for a little while although it will always be a work in progress. I pick it up from the shop that was doing some work on it and I get it on the highway and after getting it to about 70mph when I let off the gas it bogs down pretty bad. Mechanic said it is vapor lock. Fuel line has been rerouted but yet it is still getting hot and dropping fuel pressure down as heat rises. Car gets up to 220 but no more than that. Mechanic says we need to get it lower than that and would like to put in a pretty expensive radiator that should keep it around the thermostat which is 160. Any opinions, suggestions? Thanks guys.
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Big Bird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2017 at 3:42AM
Radiator issue would also show up, quickly, around town.
Insulated spacer under carb would help. Is your radiator fan shroud intact?
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2006 GMC Sierra
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Andys74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andys74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2017 at 5:37AM
Fan shroud is intact. New radiator recommended is a Ron Davis with two electric fans. He assures this radiator will get that temp down but I let him know my concerns of the cost and that the problem may not be fixed with just the radiator. Car does not overheat and stays at 220. Is 220 too high and could the gas still boil st the carb at 160?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2017 at 7:31AM
i have the stock radiator in mine and it runs normal about 180* what style fan do you have?
a vapor lock will usually boil and not get fuel to the carb and will die!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Andys74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andys74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2017 at 8:07AM
Fan is just a direct replacement I picked up off of summit. Been a while, forget the specs on it. Electric clutch was added after too. Well when this issue first started that’s what happened, car bogged down and I had to really lay on the throttle for it to engage. At one point I slowed down and I could feel it wanting to die on me and then I was coasting and it finally died. Started back up but would drive for long before it died twice more. Then when I got to a spot to park, it would not start at all. Mechanic said heat is to high and is boiling fuel at the carb and just sucking hot air through air cleaner.
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Big Bird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2017 at 11:01AM
Are you running points?
A condenser on the way out is frequently heat-sensitive.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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2006 GMC Sierra
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Andys74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andys74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2017 at 11:25AM
No sir, running msd electronic ignition set up.
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Rockatansky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-October-2017 at 1:26PM
where has the fuel line been re-routed to/ from?
 
headers?
 
i found that my headers were pinching the metal fuel line against the frame near the steering box
 
what fuel pump?
 
what's the coolant temp when it acts up?
 
too much timing advance will cause overheating, timed by ear or with a light?
 
what's the initial & total mechanical timing?


Edited by Rockatansky - 08-October-2017 at 1:29PM
72 GT Ute
   
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Don V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2017 at 9:15AM
Big Bird and Johnny have covered the usual effect and solution for vapor lock. I'd like to hear your mechanics explanation for a new radiator as a solution.

220 is high for a street car but 160 seems too low for a Torino. I'd do a little research on that number because I suspect your thermal efficiency will be drastically effected and you'll waste a lot of gas.

Just a thought but is there any chance you have winter gas in the car? That can be a problem in warm weather.

I'd also consider that the 2 problems may not be related at all. Rockatansky's "what fuel pump" is a good question. MSD ignition may be a problem with an old mechanical pump. An electric pump on a carburetor without fuel pressure regulator can be a problem. Or, you may be running with too much pressure. Do you smell gas when you let up at 70? You could be flooding the carburetor.

A lot of assumptions but there's limited info.
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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2017 at 3:38PM
hmm, yes don has some good points as well!!......
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2017 at 6:57PM
220 isn't all that hot, should run all day if it doesn't get any hotter
 
i'd look at timing & jetting, could be lean in the full power circuit
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Andys74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andys74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2017 at 12:32AM
So, a little bit of info left out that I just forgot to include. We hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and at idle after car is hot the pressure goes from about 7 or 6 psi all the way down to 2 and then that’s when I got to hit the gas before it dies on me. Also, as I was exiting a shopping center I gave it a nice little pump just to make a little noise and the car just died almost like it was flooded. Aside from that I have a Holley mechanical fuel pump, and just put in a quick fuel 750 cfm no choke vaccuum secondary carb. I really appreciate all y’alls help and professional opinions. Y’all have tons of knowledge and experience with these cars and I thank y’all for the help.
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Don V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2017 at 6:13AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:


220 isn't all that hot, should run all day if it doesn't get any hotter
 
i'd look at timing & jetting, could be lean in the full power circuit


Rock,

I made a call about this and was told for anything close to a stock engine 190, 200 at most. If the car is a 75 or 76 with cats, 220 is ok if absolutely necessary but it's going to be real hard on the engine and it was suggested to use hefty springs on the exhaust valves and headers. Even so, VE will probably still be compromised during intake due to the effects of the additional 20 or 30 degrees will have on raising the pressure in the cylinders. Solutions to this will mean you are no longer dealing with a stock engine.

When I offer suggestions to questions like this I'm not offering anything related to specific knowledge to the engines but standard and generic information about the math, physics and engineering involved with engines. Any specific knowledge I have of a 351W would be best described as "trivia" I've picked up over the years from listening and paying attention. There are engines I do know but the engines here aren't them. I also understand most engines have their quirks setting them apart from the "typical" to other engines. This is why I made the call. I was asked to relay this question, if someone has a logical reason to run a stock 351W with a 220 thermostat he'd like to know what the reason is.

To the original question my call added this suggestion. MSD Ignition can mean a lot of different things but when it was added was an MSD distributor gear also added if the stock distributor is still being used? MSD ignitions are not as forgiving to wear as the stock ignition was. The gear is not standard to many of MSD's ignition kits so they are often overlooked but essential.

Edited by Don V. - 10-October-2017 at 6:26AM
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Big Bird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2017 at 10:15AM
I don't think he's saying he has a 220 thermostat in the engine, I think that's just where the engine is running.
 
A bad thermostat could be the problem, but I would hope that his mechanic would catch that fairly quickly...
Clogged radiator, sludged cooling passages, excessive lean condition, timing issues can all cause temperature issues. If it were a Cleveland/351M/400, I would think it has a standard thermostat without the blockoff "hat" installed. If it were a newer G.M. I would be looking for/at blobs of congealed Dex-Cool.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2006 GMC Sierra
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2017 at 11:35AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:


I don't think he's saying he has a 220 thermostat in the engine, I think that's just where the engine is running.
 
A bad thermostat could be the problem, but I would hope that his mechanic would catch that fairly quickly...
Clogged radiator, sludged cooling passages, excessive lean condition, timing issues can all cause temperature issues. If it were a Cleveland/351M/400, I would think it has a standard thermostat without the blockoff "hat" installed. If it were a newer G.M. I would be looking for/at blobs of congealed Dex-Cool.


Big Bird, Thanks for catching this. I went back and re-read everything and I put 2 and 2 together for 5. For whatever reason I was putting the 220 with thermostat. That said I agree with you about sludge. The other recent coolant problem turned out to be sludge causing the radiator to spew. I'm not sure about what the mechanic might catch though considering his first remedy was an expensive, new radiator unless a lot more was done by the mechanic then was mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andys74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2017 at 2:31PM
So quick rundown. I have a crate 460 with mild upgrades. Mild cam the carb which was mentioned earlier, Holley fuel pump MSD Ignition, radiator is new but hasn’t gotten much use due to car sitting and just being worked on. Rebuilt c6 tranny, hooker headers, 3” pipes and spin tech mufflers . That’s about all. Not sure if any of this is helpful or makes anything clearer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2017 at 9:00PM
Darn, kicked again. Can't tell you where I got the 351w at. A 351w is only a big block in store front reflections between the ages of 16 and 90.
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