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Old Cleveland wants to rock

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Rockatansky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 4:06AM
i'd say the Air Gap and Performer intake have more than 'very little difference'
 
the Air Gap has no exhaust heat cross-over passage to warm the carb, intake & air fuel mixture. if you plan to use the car into the cooler months this can be a problem. or not. to my surprise the Air Gap comes very highly rated among users, even with it's 2V porting on 4V heads it's at the top of the list. it's a little more of a serious performance piece
 
the Performer is ancient tech but it holds it's own for what it is. i always thought of it as a light weight alternative to the stock 2bbl mainfold but a guy posted that in back to back tests at the strip, the Performer's times didn't drop off hardly at all to even the Strip Dominator on that particular car. the Performer has carb heat and is a year-round intake, as i mentioned before the F351 is the previous version and works about the same. the Performer & F351 have very little difference
 
now what about a cam?  
72 GT Ute
   
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smhj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smhj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 5:04AM
That's what I for got to ask about. He just said I little better than stock. What would you use?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 6:11AM
here's a screemin deel i just saw,
Crane 272 H hydraulic cam set comes with lifters brand new $125 Now $100
 
 
here's the link to the Crane page, not sure if that cam is the H10 or the -2 but from the ad saying 272H i'd think it's the 272H-10 ? either one would be fine for your app but i like the H10 a little better
 
otherwise there's a chitload of cams to pick from that'll work, still sticking with the 3.25 & stock converter? headers or stock manifolds?

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smhj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smhj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 6:40AM
Probably going for a 10" converter and 3.7. I would like to go with headers for a good price. Anything else to keep in mine? Thanks for all the help and information.
73MONTEGO
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Rockatansky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 7:27AM
that changes the cam selection quite a bit, with those changes you're into the range where you can get something a lot sportier. are you figuring on a hydraulic flat tappet to use with the stock non-adjustable pedestal style rockers?
 
did you have the heads done up for screw in studs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smhj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 7:51AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

that changes the cam selection quite a bit, with those changes you're into the range where you can get something a lot sportier. are you figuring on a hydraulic flat tappet to use with the stock non-adjustable pedestal style rockers?
 
did you have the heads done up for screw in studs?
 
Nothing was set yet. Waiting for all this options. The only thing the guy really said so far was about getting a rebuild kit. He suggested keeping the pedestal rockers the same. I asked him to give me a list of everything so I can make some choices. I'm up to $3000.00 now for the motor. What would your parts all beif it was you having rebuilt?
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Rockatansky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 8:40AM
yeah there's no cheap way to get there. doing it today from scratch i'd probably use bolt on pedestal style roller rockers...
 
-----vs-----
 
studs, rockers, adjuster locks, guide plates, hardened pushrods, machining costs and the possibility of the machining being off
 
unless you're gonna go pretty crazy on the cam lift & spring pressure the 5/16" hold down bolt is good for most cams. look at Scorpion, or Yella Terra if you hit the lotto
 
another direction is the Crane conversion kit that allows you to use 7/16" stud mounted rockers w/o machining the pedestals, so you have the Crane kit, rockers & adjuster locks.
 
 
and figure on a pedestal shim kit to set lifter preload
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 11:39AM
I spent 5k delivere to my door and he supplied the engine.It sounds like what you want. 351c stroked,Aussie heads,roller rockers,air gap,540 lift and 10-1....450hp ,pump gas. I've had 1000 trouble free miles so far... Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smhj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2012 at 10:24PM
I think maybe a wrote it wrong. I have $3000.00 to spend on the motor. Not up to $3000.00 spent already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote occupant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-October-2012 at 3:14AM
The F351 is a fine intake, it's what is on my car and it will be staying when I go TBI and even if I go full MPFI I'll drill it. It fits good, it's not too heavy, it's just what the factory intake should have been IMO.

I also want to take a moment and really recommend the Dual Energy line at Comp Cam. 255/265/275 DEH and they are great for trucks and heavier cars like the Torinos. If you're not going to spend a lot of time above 5000-5500rpm why bother with a wild cam. A dual pattern cam gives you the best of both worlds, lots of breathing room up high and gobs of torque down low.

I know the cam in my 351C is an Erson RV cam of some kind and it's OK, but I want a 265DEH in here as soon as I am ready to do a cam swap.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CC&Category_Code=F351HFTCDE

255 is the RV cam, 265 the midrange, 275 honestly should be more cam than most people need but if you want a rougher idle it has it.

Edited by occupant - 04-October-2012 at 3:19AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-October-2012 at 7:18AM

i'd reserve the DEH cams for applications where the exhaust side needs a crutch, like with the 1975 & up D% heads that have the choked exhaust port, or an app that needs a full length X system restrictive quiet mufflers. the early 2V heads have really good intake/exhaust flow ratio w/o porting, single pattern cams do run really well with them

if you do choose a DEH from any manufacturer, watch the overlap. too much overlap will dog out a Cleveland faster than a drunk chevy guy at the local dirt track. Cleveland heads, with their large valves/cubic inch ratio can get into 'overlap trouble' quick because the large valves work so well in the overlap period while both valves are open at the end of the exhaust stroke & the beginning of the intake stroke. because of the valve size and the canted configuration helping the Cleveland breathe better than any comparable size engine, overlap needs to be kept in check... because the heads work so darn good!

the factory iron 4V heads don't have quite as good an intake/exhaust flow ratio, but single pattern cams still work gangbusters with 4V's too. look to the exhaust system vs overlap when choosing between a single/dual pattern cam with the Cleveland & 429/460

255DEH has 40* overlap, VERY little

265DEH has 55* overlap, very good for street perf, about the limit, may want a little converter?

275DEH has 60* overlap, maybe a hair too much, gonna want a converter & gears

for reference the 268H has 48* overlap, and i can tell you it WORKS in an otherwise bone stock 351C-2V / FMX & 2.75 with cast manifolds. it also stayed in the block when i swapped over to 4V Closed Chamber heads @ 10.25:1 and it still worked bigtime

here's a chart Luc John & his 16 year old daughter(Hahaha) worked up to show how overlap changes with Duration & Lobe Separation Angle
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/message/1349226140/OK%2C+have+chart

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ross6860 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-October-2012 at 11:52AM
Originally posted by 72GTS351CJ 72GTS351CJ wrote:

I spent 5k delivere to my door and he supplied the engine.It sounds like what you want. 351c stroked,Aussie heads,roller rockers,air gap,540 lift and 10-1....450hp ,pump gas. I've had 1000 trouble free miles so far... Rick

OK, you really got me interested.

$5k for a 450hp stroker, including the donor motor?  That's right about what I figure for parts and machine work doing the assembly myself and supplying the block and heads.

Roller cam or flat tappet?  What kind of power range do you have (when are you "on the cam")?  Max rpm?  When does it start to pull strong?

Mind PMing me your builders info?

This is exactly what I'm looking for as long as I don't need to run a 3500 stall converter and 4.11 gears with itWink.  

I'll save myself the trouble of re-inventing the wheel.

Look forward to your response.
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