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PMGR 460 starter

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aquartlow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PMGR 460 starter
    Posted: 09-October-2013 at 9:16AM
I finally replaced my 460's starter for a Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction starter from DB Electrical. What a difference in cranking this little starter makes, whether the engine is hot or cold. I purchased the starter off of Ebay(directly from DB Electrical) shipped to my door for $49.20, I couldn't pass it up. The starter takes up at least 1/3 less space than the original(Hooker 6126's have PLENTY of room). DB also sent a wiring diagram and wire required for the swap(real easy). If you want or need an upgraded BBF starter this one could be a low cost option. You can find one here:                                                          
 
Here is the size difference of the stock and new PMGR starter's
 
Good luck, Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 9:43AM
Awesome deal!!!! I see they have them for a Cleveland with manual transmission. I wish I saw this before I spent$250 for mine...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 9:48AM
Another plus I forgot to mention is that these are brand new starters, not remanned units.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 11:02AM
What a great deal I saw your link and....... I just bought one! My Ranchero MX likes to bog down when It gets hot so I am hoping this will sovle that issue. For the price I should have bought two!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 11:52AM
Sounds great Dan. I just got/installed mine today and I must say I was impressed with this starter, not only for how small it is but also for how easily it spins my non-stock 460 even when HOT. I hope your experience with your new starter is as good as mine. I ordered mine @ 3:17 pm on Monday and it was delivered (central Florida) today(Wed) @ 12:30 pm, so be ready to install soon Wink. The only thing I did differently than what DB instructions say, was that they sent a 12 ga wire to trigger the starter to engage, I upgraded to 10 ga wiring with a ring terminal on each end 1/4-5/16" on one end(starter mounted solenoid) and a 5/16-3/8" (attaches to fender mounted solenoid)on the other. The wire DB sends has a 5/16-3/8" one one end(goes to original fender mounted solenoid) the other end of the wire has a female speaker-type terminal that doesn't fit Confused or attach to the starter mounted solenoid. Good luck, Todd
 Here is a scan of the instructions DB electrical sent:
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 1:09PM
Looks like an E-Z hook up! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 1:43PM
I, too, went with a new style starter on mine. I went with Powermaster, just because I have some experience with their products and generally like them. This one is a great find though. I also know that some buy starters for 90's f250's which are the same style.

Aquartlow - I love the comment about hookers and lots of clearance. I am finding out just how true that really is. Not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 2:01PM
Originally posted by GranTorinoSport GranTorinoSport wrote:

I, too, went with a new style starter on mine. I went with Powermaster, just because I have some experience with their products and generally like them. This one is a great find though. I also know that some buy starters for 90's f250's which are the same style.

Aquartlow - I love the comment about hookers and lots of clearance. I am finding out just how true that really is. Not.
 
Even the rather large stock 460 starter can be removed without loosening up the PS header Wink. There are few areas that will have to be "clearanced", like possibly the idler arm(you'll see Censored).
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-October-2013 at 6:35PM
Yea, it was a decision I struggled with. Headers or no headers. If it was a 460 I would have prob just gone cast iron manifold (75+ version no donuts). But with 521 cubic inches of monster I just can't see how a stock manifold will flow at all, so headers are the only obvious choice.

The hooker ceramics are nice. I think all things considered they are the best one could hope for. I believe they will work well for me, but that does not mean I don't get lots of those "you've got to be kidding me" moments as I am putting things together. Torinos are big cars and its nuts that it is such a tight fit.

Edited by GranTorinoSport - 09-October-2013 at 6:35PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2013 at 2:10AM
I am ordering one for my 429 wagon (hot starts have always been an issue), one for my 4 speed, and one for a Windsor (if they offer it). What a deal, and no more sitting in a hot car waiting for the starter to cool off.
Thank you, thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-October-2013 at 4:24AM
Originally posted by GranTorinoSport GranTorinoSport wrote:

Yea, it was a decision I struggled with. Headers or no headers. If it was a 460 I would have prob just gone cast iron manifold (75+ version no donuts). But with 521 cubic inches of monster I just can't see how a stock manifold will flow at all, so headers are the only obvious choice.

The hooker ceramics are nice. I think all things considered they are the best one could hope for. I believe they will work well for me, but that does not mean I don't get lots of those "you've got to be kidding me" moments as I am putting things together. Torinos are big cars and its nuts that it is such a tight fit.
 
 
Scott,
 IMO, you did good on your choices, especially for the 521. The Hooker 6126's fit "good" for what they have to do and what they have to snake around, ceramic coating will have them not only looking good for years to come but also reduce the under hood temps quite a bit. Popular Hot Rodding magazine Oct. 2013 just did a comparison of header types, sizes and etc, they tested a set of identical headers ceramic coated and uncoated on the same test engine. The coated headers reduced the primary tube temps by over 550 degrees, this will have a positive impact on those under hood temps.  Though sometimes you have to take some tests these magazines run with a grain of salt, any reduction in under hood header temps are a good thing, a 550 difference is like Shocked. Good luck with your progress. Todd 
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2013 at 11:22AM
Recieved my starter yesterday. Installed it today and WOW!!! That puppy spins like a top. That is the good news. The bad was the stud that I needed to mount the power cable to the solinoid was stripped out and I had to chase the threads with a die. Because of this I can't tighten up this cable as I would like too because I am afraid I will strip the rest of the threads off. The starter works great but I am afraid the nut will come loose. Otherwise it is a great unit and fires up the car with no effort. I would still consider buying another one for my other ranchero.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2013 at 12:08PM
Dan, Sorry to hear about the quality of the starter they sent you Ouch. I kinda feel like a heel recommending the starter now.  Maybe this "deal" was too good to be true. IMO, I'd send it back, it won't get any better. I am surprised I didn't get THE bad starter with my luck Cry. Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GranTorinoSport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2013 at 6:38PM
Dan definitely see if you can get an exchange. May not be a problem now but could be in a few years when you need to disconnect it for something else...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2013 at 10:05PM
No need to be sorry. Sometimes these things happen. For $49.20 I am not going to worry about returning it if I was able to make it work. Take care Dan 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-October-2013 at 9:44AM
I've got two of these. A+
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-October-2013 at 11:30AM

I did a double locking nut with the bad stud. Now the cable is nice and tight Thumbs Up. I have to say for the money these are a great deal!!! Thanks for the link! (I will be buying one for the other ranchero soon)



Edited by Dan the ranchero man - 14-October-2013 at 11:35AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-October-2013 at 12:41PM
Originally posted by Dan the ranchero man Dan the ranchero man wrote:

I did a double locking nut with the bad stud. Now the cable is nice and tight Thumbs Up. I have to say for the money these are a great deal!!! Thanks for the link! (I will be buying one for the other ranchero soon)

Dan, glad you got everything ironed out. It still impresses me to see/hear this little starter barely even grunt when spinning my BBF. There is a well-respected fellow on another forum that uses this exact same starter on his 600 cubic inch 16 to 1 BBF. His positive review of this starter was an additional reason why I wanted to order one for myself.  Todd
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-October-2013 at 12:53PM
My biggest issue was in the summer after the car get heat soaked and I shut it off. Then I would need to restart again in less than ten min and the thing would sound like I had a bad cell in the battery. This thing just spins that engine over like nothing. There is one in the future for my other ranchero. That one run headers so that will be even a sweeter deal. We all know what happens when headers roast your starter. This thing will fit in there with pleanty of airspace around it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote papadeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2018 at 8:59AM
I know this is an old post but I'm (and have been), going through this same problem. I thought that since my headers (fordpowertrain, which are junk btw, too radical of a collector IMHO,and the customer service was pffft, and they were pricey. With coating I spent almost 900 on sorties, plus they lied to me and told me they were custom made for the rancher, but oddly enough had LINCOLN stamped on the base plate), when I first started putting in together I tried putting hook super comps in there but there was no way without serious mods. Changed the starter to the f250 one, worked well at first with the thermal wrap then it no longer helped at all, even with the ceramic. I'm going to order one of those db units. I might add that I wrapped a set of headers once and keeping all that heat in the pipes shortens the life of the headers SIGNIFICANTLY! Mine lasted less than a year cause the metal rusted to the point of coming apart in pieces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2018 at 11:10AM
Originally posted by papadeath papadeath wrote:

I know this is an old post but I'm (and have been), going through this same problem. I thought that since my headers (fordpowertrain, which are junk btw, too radical of a collector IMHO,and the customer service was pffft, and they were pricey. With coating I spent almost 900 on sorties, plus they lied to me and told me they were custom made for the rancher, but oddly enough had LINCOLN stamped on the base plate), when I first started putting in together I tried putting hook super comps in there but there was no way without serious mods. Changed the starter to the f250 one, worked well at first with the thermal wrap then it no longer helped at all, even with the ceramic. I'm going to order one of those db units. I might add that I wrapped a set of headers once and keeping all that heat in the pipes shortens the life of the headers SIGNIFICANTLY! Mine lasted less than a year cause the metal rusted to the point of coming apart in pieces.
 
Headers almost never fit as good as the manufacturer claims, that said, I wouldn't have a problem ordering another set of Hooker 6126's(if I had an extra $600 burning a hole in my pocket) they fit(at least mine did) quite well for all they have to snake around. As far as wrapping header tubes, it has been stated doing this is a no-no and ultimately the quickest way to get new headers Embarrassed, for you won't have the previous set for all that long of time due to rust out issues. I have had my set of 6126's since '92 and had them aluminized back in '08, once they showed a bit of rust specs, I removed the headers and used VHT aluminum hi-heat paint and they still look good after a good bit of run time. 
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2018 at 12:14PM
Had my header Jet hot (ceramic) coated and they look as good today as they did 20 years ago. I drive mine everywhere (50K in the last 20 yrs). The coating will drop the under hood temp and makes it easier on things like brake lines and starters. Little pricey but once and done!
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