Poor Acceleration |
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Boggedust
New Member Joined: 29-February-2020 Location: Davie FL Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Posted: 10-April-2020 at 2:18AM |
Hi all,
I have a 71 torino 500 with a 351C and C6 transmission. The car was originally a 2 barrel car but I have installed a dual plane intake and brand new holley style 650 4 barrel carb. The acceleration on take off is poor to say the least. I wasn't looking to really go overboard with hot rodding the car, but the other day a camry beat me light to light despite me giving it some gas, if not floored. I'm assuming the issue may be related to the rear gear ratio, but that appears to be a big job. any insight would be greatly appreciated. |
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5849 |
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Are you just not happy with the performance, or is it hesitating or bogging on acceleration? What is the Holley part number? How'd the car run with the 2-bbl?
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Boggedust
New Member Joined: 29-February-2020 Location: Davie FL Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Its the summit 4 barrel carb.
It ran fine with the 2 barrel but never really tried to gun it when the 2 barrel was on. It just doesn't pick up like I would like. I know its bad to make the comparison. It makes a lot of noise, but just doesn't pull like I would think a 351 would do normally, which is why I'm thinking the rear gear ratio is holding it back. |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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the rear gear is probably the #1 suspect by a longshot, the very common 2.75:1 ratio is more suited to Bonneville than mildly spirited stop light take-offs. i think Vince is in the market for a 3rd member upgrade, any leads or advice? next on the list is what we call the tune-up. not changing spark plugs but altering the ignition spark 'curve' to be more performance oriented. a 1971 2V did not come with a performance ignition curve from Ford, initial base ignition timing is fairly low with a lot of travel inside the mechanical advance system. for better performance you want the opposite, high initial around 16*-18* and less travel in the distributor. Ford actually made it kind of easy to make the switch by providing a 2nd unused advance slot on the opposite side of the part. hopefully all you have to do is switch it around to the shorter advance slot if the distributor is using the long slot. does your distributor still have breaker points installed? worn or not perfectly adjusted breaker points will kill power, efficiency & performance faster than . if you still have points get yourself a module to replace them like Pertronix or similar. worth every penny. faster starts, smoother idle, high reliability and never set points again some will point out that the C6 transmission uses up more power than a
C4, i'd stick with the stronger transmission and make more power! when do you want to talk about a cam?
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72 GT Ute
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Boggedust
New Member Joined: 29-February-2020 Location: Davie FL Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Well that certainly helps a lot. I honestly don't know where to start to advance the timing.
I have considered a cam but the car has 38k original miles. I'm conflicted between wanting to keep the car original and taking it in my own direction. |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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get yourself a timing light. it doesn't have to be expensive or fancy but a 'dial back' feature is nice, almost a requirement because the scale on the stock balancer isn't graduated out to 40 or more degrees BTDC. the dial back can be used to find what your total timing is by turning the dial up until the light shows 0 on the scale while holding rpm at full advance. that would be your total timing )with the vacuum hose to the dizzy plugged) generally total timing should be around 36*-38* but some engines make best power higher or lower depending upon a few things. the 1st thing i would do is set initial at 16* (vac plugged) and find what your total is. this will show how much timing degrees needs to be eliminated from the mechanical advance mechanism. say if stock timing is 6* btdc and it's set spot on, you advance it by 10* to 16* initial and it bumps the total to 46* .... you'd want to remove that same 10* from the internal mechanism of the distributor. here's a tutorial on doing a recurve, the magic lies in the advance slot http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_index.html don't miss the 2nd page a couple quirks about ignition timing; if you have points, dwell affects timing but timing does not affect dwell. as points wear and deteriorate the dwell reading is constantly changing. so is your spark timing. also, a good ignition spark curve will be at odds with a terrible rear gear. the distributor will be ready for action and the rear end ready for a nap resulting in ping and detonation. have you ever checked to see what's inside the dizzy cap? as far as the conflict between original and every magazine bling item on the internet, you can build decent performance using stock or stock looking parts. the carb anyone can understand, the manifold screams aftermarket but again most will accept it under the weight savings program. a cam you can't see at all and it doesn't have to make the engine run like it's trying to jump out of the engine bay at idle. a cam can be spec'd to run smooth at idle and run the bag off at WOT |
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72 GT Ute
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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72 GT Ute
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5849 |
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Yes, but a little too pricey for me, so I just ended up replacing the clutches and bearings. I will have to update my project post at some point. I was looking at one of these in either Trac-Lok Or True Track: |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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they are Proud at Currie you could get the whole rear end done with axle bearings & gear change at the local trans shop for a fraction. i will say think hard & twice about any type of locker center unit. you'll get the Yee-Haws telling you they're no problem but they're downright scary in highway traffic or wet / slippery conditions. there's a reason the OEM's don't offer them
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72 GT Ute
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5849 |
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True, very pricey, which is why I passed. Moser is about the same price too. It cost me about $300 (USD) to rebuild mine with new clutches and bearings for my existing 9". But I plan on keeping my original rear end regardless. Eventually I'd like to go to steeper gears with a whole new third member and an OD - but that's big bucks. Finding decent cores around here is tough or people want way too much for their worn out parts.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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Boggedust
New Member Joined: 29-February-2020 Location: Davie FL Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Well, I was able to discover one major issue I was having. For whatever reason, my vacuum secondaries weren't opening on my brand new carburetor. Fortunately I do have spare parts so I was able to replace the secondary for a real huge difference.
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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Yes that would make a big difference for sure, i guess we all overlooked that one how is it now, is there any bog or hesitation when they open or does it just take the off like a skeert rabbit? if the spring is too light the secondaries will have a 'light switch' effect but if the spring is right you might not even be able to tell when they open, it'll just accelerate smoothly |
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72 GT Ute
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Boggedust
New Member Joined: 29-February-2020 Location: Davie FL Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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It's a lot smoother. If I switch it to 1 one the column it's a night and day difference, although just running it in D isnt horrible.
I'm on the thunderhead289 page on fb and learned the paper clip on the secondary shaft to confirm its actually moving. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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if it's working right they say you don't notice the secondaries open hence the paper clip trick
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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