1978 302
Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Powertrain Specific Forum
Forum Name: Small Block Forum
Forum Description: 221, 255, 260, 302 and 351W engines
URL: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=12360
Printed Date: 23-April-2024 at 1:06PM
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 1978 302
Posted By: weaverT1971
Subject: 1978 302
Date Posted: 13-August-2014 at 1:50PM
| Soooo, I just got done dropping the starter to find out if my 302 in 71 Torino is original or not and it seems it's not. It looks like it's a 302 out of a 78 Lincoln and that means it's a dog of 135HP. Weird thing is that it does not feel like a 135 HP engine at all. The engine has been painted Ford blue and it looks fairly fresh so maybe it was rebuilt, it doesn't sound like it has a bigger cam in it, it does have a Edelbrock performer intake with a Holley 650 on it, no headers but fresh Flowmasters. Besides that it looks like it's stock? I can stand on the brake and seriously spin the tires until smoke is behind me and have no problems at all chirping the tires even though the Torino is heavy. So, I'm wondering my plan was just to get a 302- crate or 351 for it next year but would I by better off going with a top end kit? Edelbrock makes one for like $1600 but I'm wondering if the bottom end would hold up. Or are those kits a waste of money? |
Replies:
Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 14-August-2014 at 1:10PM
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it sounds like you're saying it runs pretty good, surprising well for what it should be... why mess with it at all? ------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: GTW
Date Posted: 14-August-2014 at 1:21PM
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Our 140 hp 1973 302 didn't feel like a dog stock, and it was in a wagon... ------------- Griffin 1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 15-August-2014 at 12:34AM
Yes, it runs very well. I get a little oil on the top of the manifold but besides that no smoking or anything like that....but I want to get 300hp out of this motor and keep it street able. I had a local shop who builds race engine tell me they can take it, rebuild it, put some go fast goodies on it and get that for me for 3,000. But from what I've read I may be able to get that with just bolt on's like new heads, intake, cam...True or not?
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Rockatansky wrote:Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 15-August-2014 at 12:39AM
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true ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 15-August-2014 at 1:13AM
Nice, next question. Are those kits worth it, I've heard people say that the cam selections are very good.
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Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 15-August-2014 at 1:46AM
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Get an stock roller 5.0, install mildly reworked Explorer GT40P heads, roller 1.6 rockers and a good cam. 375 hp at the flywheel. There is a fresh article in one of the periodicals that I am following on this exact build. Cheap, bulletproof, reliable and will bolt right in. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 15-August-2014 at 1:48AM
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That, with some other small mods, is what I am installing in Stripper. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 4:17AM
Exactly what I was going to suggest. Hell find an Explorer with the 5.0 and just swap it in! Or just a mid 80's - mid 90's Mustang... DONE! 3 things to remember swapping in a late model roller motor... 1. GT40P heads require special headers as the plugs sit straight out not angled. That's why the explorer has those funky looking headers. The amount of difference a DRIVER car will feel...not enough to matter, just get a Mustang GT 5.0 with the GT40 heads, should come with the factory shorty style headers that fit with no issues in the 72-79 cars(not sure on the 68-71 cars) 2 and 3. Ensure you have the balancer AND the flywheel from the roller motor! They are balanced differently than the early/non-roller motors and even if they will fit and bolt up, they will vibrate, shake, rattle and eventually break(BADLY)! Also get the emission tube bolts that go on the back of the heads. Match the bolt size and buy 2 bolts same size and pitch as short as you can get them. Might have to cut them shorter, use some HIGH TEMP RTV on the threads, tighten them down GOOD and forget about them! Want to go 1 step further? Reach in each exhaust port and grind down the emissions hump! VERY EASY to do, you can see these restrictive pieces and feel th hole that feeds the egr tubes we just sealed off above. Once ground smooth, you COULD suff the hole with some JBWeld or not, no issues either way. Throw a Holley 600 4BBL on an alum intake and POW you'll love it! ------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 4:32AM
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Or cut the ends off the emissions air tube manifold and install them backward as a block-off plate. A little ultra copper and bolt them on. These holes are usually DIRTY from all the "clean" air pumped thru them. I broke a chaser tap off in mine trying to clean it up enough to put a bolt in.
------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 6:48AM
| Nah.....I think I'm just gonna go with the edelbrock top end kit. Way less fuss then finding a goos gt engine that hasn't been beat on, at least with my engine I know what I' starting with |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 7:37AM
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what parts are included in the kit? heads,cam,manifold, carb,??? ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 9:47AM
| Aluminum heads, cam and lifters, timing chain, performer intake and all the gaskets and bolts....Although I've always wanted to put a modern engine in a muscle car. The only thing that I hesitate on is the fact that it has a computer and all that stuff. |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 9:48AM
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Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 10:11AM
Can you point me to that article please.
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Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 10:44AM
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On the stock roller motors, any 302/5.0 87-up passenger car wise that ISN'T a GT motor will have flat-top pistons and E6 heads. These are a little "funny" when it comes to valve clearance. In stock form, you can put a ford E303 cam in with stock ratio rockers, and that's about as big as is safe to go. Aftermarket cams, stay UNDER .500 lift. If you swap the heads to the E7 or GT-40 heads, you NEED to change the pistons as the E6 seats the valves higher in the head and the E7 will hit the pistons at much less lift. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 1:49PM
| Can someone put up some links for swapping a 5.0 into either a mustang or a torino? Ive seen a lot on the net about this being a very common swap and very easy in mustangs but for some reason I cant find a step by step? Anyone? |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:06PM
| I have found one: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/classic-tech/311503-new-2012-5-0-1965-mustang-coupe.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:11PM
| Here is another one: http://www.mustangevolution.com/mustang-articles/swapping-a-50l-efi-t-5-into-a-classic-mustang/" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:17PM
| Here is another one: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/classic-talk/225084-5-0-engine-1965-mustang.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:21PM
| Here is another one: http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0805_1967_ford_mustang_engine_swap/" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:29PM
| This next article is about a guy who installed one into his '66 F-100: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1181161-engine-swap-92-mustang-5-0ho-aod-into-66-f100.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:40PM
| Here is another article on the engine swap subject: http://www.onlymustangfords.com/1965-mustang-fastback-engine-swap-options.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:43PM
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I'll get that article for you on the bolt-ons for a 5.0 HO. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 2:51PM
| Here is an article where they had installed one into an '83 Bronco II: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/V8Conversions.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 3:01PM
| Here is another article about the engine swap subject: http://members.boardhost.com/MustangSteve/thread/1364337835.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 3:06PM
| Here is a good article about choosing which 5.0 to install: http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/ho_transplant.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 3:09PM
| Here is another good article about the engine swap: http://www.midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/Engine.htm" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 3:14PM
| Here is another good article about the engine swap subject: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/45309-totw-ford-302-engine-swaps.html" rel="nofollow - Click Here to see it. |
Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 16-August-2014 at 5:00PM
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I am curious as to why we are talking about needing info for an engine swap? You are talking about swapping a 302 with a 302. Nothing major, just all the 71 stuff needs to be put on the new motor. The oil pick up tube, oil pan, pullies, brackets, accessories, dizzy, 4bbl intake and carb. Keep the newer 5.0 balancer and flywheel. Simple motor exchange same as if you were just pulling and re-installing the 302 you currently have. Your motor mounts work, your exhaust works, everything else works too. And I agree, look for the Mustang GT with the GT40 heads. They accept different rockers (1.7) and work with a lot of the aftermarket add on options better! ------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 1:37AM
Not really, we're talking about switching a carbureted engine with a EFI that has a computer and all that crap and that is what confuses me.
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Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:25AM
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biggest issue with a EFI retrofit after getting EVERYTHING (harness, sensors & all ancillaries) from the donor vehicle is the fuel supplyit's been done a million times but you need a plan that works for you & your carif you can't get anything from a donor vehicle there are products out there to get the job done, but it's an expensive route GM LS engines can even be adapted to run a Ford spec distributor & aftermarket EFI or even carb
------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:46AM
| Yeah, I've been on the computer non stop trying to figure this stuff out. I think I may just stick with the top end kits, way easier to install, and like I've said I already know I have a nice smooth running engine. Seems like you can run into to many hiccups when trying to go EFI |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:53AM
you should be able to put a carb manifold and dist on the newer motor, and not need all that computer crap, that's what i did on my blazer, since i was having fuel problems with it! ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:57AM
So then what you're saying is you took a 5.0 roller and just set it up like a carbed engine? What is the benefit of doing that?
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Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:00AM
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and you can always add EFI to your existing engine after the top end kit 221 choices here http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/air-fuel-delivery/section/fuel-injection/part-type/fuel-injection-systems?N=4294951509%2B4294930106%2B4294925975&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending" rel="nofollow - http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/air-fuel-delivery/section/fuel-injection/part-type/fuel-injection-systems?N=4294951509%2B4294930106%2B4294925975&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending ------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:06AM
| Yeah, I was checking those out. Why in the hell are the small block ford kits so much more expensive then the chevy kits??? Bastards. |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:17AM
well no, my blazer has a 4.3 nonvortec v-6, it was loading with fuel when really cold out and many parts replaced and getting worse, i don't really understand all the computer crap, some but i know carbs! the benefit was - i can work on it, problem is gone, fuel mileage is about the same (maybe slightly better), more smooth power. but to your situation: one advantage to those aluminum edelbrock heads is that they will have screw in studs for guide plates so then you can run any brand full roller rockers! i contemplated that for a while on my 351W i kept my stock heads (for now) and cammed it , manifold, holley carb, HEI dist., gear drive. and had to go with comp cams roller tip rockers (rail type). it works great for now (may go with the aluminum heads later  ) the advantage to alum. heads: lighter weight,flow better then cast iron, already machined for screw in studs, +++!
------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:39AM
| http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flo-Tek-203505-Small-Block-Ford-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head,46332.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flo-Tek-203505-Small-Block-Ford-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head,46332.html Check out these heads.....Ive seen some good reviews on them. |
Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:56AM
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http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=30743.0" rel="nofollow - http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=30743.0
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/323058-302-aluminum-heads.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/323058-302-aluminum-heads.html http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1191648-floo-tek-5-0x-heads-those-would-like-view-them.html" rel="nofollow - http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1191648-floo-tek-5-0x-heads-those-would-like-view-them.html
------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 6:12AM
| Crappy |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 7:28AM
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Maybe I am just cheap, lucky, know Ford interchanges, or a combination of all of these. I can find decent mileage Ford Explorer roller 5.0 engines for $500 or less around here. Great running engines, too. Get an aluminum intake, 4Bbl carb and you will almost double what your car had from the factory. Swap the oil pan off your engine, use your timing chain cover for the dipstick, and the factory headers off the Explorer and run your dual exhaust. That is the benefit to using a late model roller engine, It doesn't get any easier than that. You cannot spend $500 on your engine and get the same results. Later on, get the cam, rockers and do a little head work for even more power. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 7:51AM
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it is hard to beat Factory Ford Quality first thing I would do is ID what you have there already, if it runs kinda great like you're describing you may already have GT40/P heads on that motor? 1978 was a long time ago, plenty of time to be overhauled & hopped up before you got it you could easily $pend away & not come out with a significant improvement, seen it plenty of times a guy tears down a great running engine because 'it wasn't built enough' only to put together an unhappy combo that needs to be re-worked again maybe just RDI (remove, dis-assemble & inspect) the engine you have, figure out what about it makes it work as well as it does, re-assemble & reseal before jumping the shark what if you just did your EFI on that engine as-is? ------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 8:12AM
That's exactly what I did to my t-bird. Advantages were 1. Engine was available cheap ($250) 2. All my existing accessory/front stuff bolted on. 3. The original engine had all the parts I needed for the conversion. There are a few odd bits to the conversion, but if you can afford to pick one up, you can build it on a stand and have it ready with less downtime. I now have a working low mileage roller cam engine with decent performance and mileage. The machine work and build quality of the later engines is better, and they weren't run with the crappy 70s oil that cokes up the inside of the engine. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 8:28AM
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Yes. Not to mention 20+ years of design improvements. You can thank the Fox Mustang for all of these fine things. The 5.0 craze was one of the best things to ever happen to Ford and to all of us SBF guys with older cars. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 9:45AM
Damn where are you, hook me up with some info on a engine then!
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Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 9:54AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk6uevolqIg" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk6uevolqIg
Here's my car from today.
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Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 10:20AM
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Weaver, exactly what Joe said! ALSO, remember when you swap the timing cover to put the fuel pump cam eccentric from the original motor on the roller so you can run the mechanical fuel pump! Weaver, where are you?? I could do this whole job for you in a couple days to a week! ------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 12:49PM
| Does that look like a stock 135hp 302 from the video? |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:03PM
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Looks like it runs pretty well. I had a '72 Skylark with a tired 350/2bbl that would smoke a 14 inch 70 series tire as long as you held your foot in it. Gearing, and how hard you stab it come into play. Sounded like it was revving pretty hard when you let your foot off the brake. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:10PM
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Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:32PM
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Regul8r wrote: "Weaver, exactly what Joe said! ALSO, remember when you swap the timing cover to put the fuel pump cam eccentric from the original motor on the roller so you can run the mechanical fuel pump!" This is one of the "odd bits" I was talking about. Early EFI motors used the inner half only of a 2 piece fuel pump eccentric as a spacer. You need the 2 piece eccentric. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:32PM
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I had a 1980 Mustang with a straight 6. I swapped in an old tired 302/2bbl/AOD out of an early model Crown Vic with almost 200k on the motor. Drove it like that for about a year. Working at a body shop we got a wrecked 88 Mustang GT with a good 5.0 roller motor. I bought the car CHEAP from the owner. I also had another 302 non roller at the house, so I swapped ALL the 302 carburetor specific stuff onto the 5.0 EFI motor, bought an old (1960's)Shelby 4bbl aluminum intake from a local Ford guy. Timing chain cover, fuel pump eccentric AND the 302 water pump(the 5.0 w/p spins opposite due to the serpentine belts). Then in a LONG Saturday at the garage I pulled the 302 and put in the 5.0... BEST THING EVER! That had soooo much more power than the 302! ONLY issue I had was it was ALOT quieter than the 302 was! Used all the same exhaust, ALL the accessories and pulleys bolted right up including the crank pulley to the 5.0 Harmonic Balancer, Motor mounts, tranny bolts right up to the 5.0 flywheel, used the 302 starter. You CAN use the 302 distributor too. 1 long day and all swapped in with no issue! These motors are READILY available at the junkyards and on CL for CHEAP! You can even look for a 5.0 from a truck... SAME bottom end but has the E7T type heads that flow better than the car heads and almost as good as the GT40 heads. You could while you're at it find a 5.8 roller motor from a late 80's(87+) to 90's Ford Truck and it will do the exact same thing...swap in with NO ISSUE! Only difference is you would have to buy a 351W specific 4bbl intake as the 302 is different. But everything else is the same!
------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:38PM
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nice looking car! remember in the mid 70's they changed the HP rating system, so the newer engines were rated at way less power than what they might be compared to the old system ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:38PM
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If you do use an older dizzy, you need to change the dizzy drive gear to a steel one, instead of the iron one that's on it. (another odd bit) ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:45PM
huh?
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Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:54PM
Yup forgot that little bit! ------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:54PM
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"huh?" In 1972 they changed from "Gross" to "net" horsepower. Gross Hp was measured on a dyno with no accessories. net HP was measured with all the accessories mounted and running. At the same time they dropped the compression ratio and screwed with cams and timing for emissions reasons. The two numbers don't really relate to each other very well, but a 2bbl 302 lost 65-70 HP due to the change in compression/cam/timing and the new Net HP method. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:59PM
Wow, so in all actuality I could be pushing closer to 200 hp with the set up I have now then.
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Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 17-August-2014 at 3:29PM
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Until you know what you actually have, it's hard to say. You wrote that you thought it was a 78 motor, but it could be anything from a stock 302 to a 78 block with different internals. It does seem to do nice burnouts, but even a stock 78 302 will do that with a 3.50 rear gear. There are a lot of variables at work. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 12:15AM
| 1978 block, not sure about the heads though. Conventional rear end with 3.00 gears |
Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 10:20AM
------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 10:44AM
Yes I agree with you because the engine runs very good. EFI for that isn't very much but I kina wanted the added HP too.
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Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 11:12AM
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without pulling the valve covers yet...the heads have 10 stamped on the front of them. On the back side towards the fire wall on the passenger side flange is a number 2
Just found out the 2 stands for a 2 barrel carb...not cool
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Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 2:44PM
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Yeah, but... what heads are they. 302s were 2 bbl only thru most of their production, so would only have a (maybe) different head for a year (1968). Mustang GT with a 4bbl (83-85) didn't get special heads. 86 gt (EFI) used E6 passenger heads, 87-up used E7 truck heads until gt-40 and derivatives in the mid 90s. 289 heads (2bbl or 4 bbl) had heads with the same valves and combustion chamber, which was a smaller combustion chamber than later 302 heads, andeven the hi-po was mostly carb, cam, exhaust improvements (and adjustable rockers) In short, there are no REALLY bad 302 heads, they are mostly the same. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 3:24PM
| I've always wondered since we're on the discussion of heads....why do people get 3 angle valve jobs and port and polish when you get aluminum heads that have bigger ports, are lighter and are better performers? Is it cheaper to port and polish? I guess what I'm asking is if aluminum heads are so good then why doesn't everyone just throw their old cast irons out and buy aluminum? |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 6:08PM
well there could be an entire forum devoted to just this subject!!!! and probably just as many opinions as there are heads out there!!!! but basically cast iron production heads are mass produced for new vehicles, that are sold to ordinary people (they work -who cares- they got your money another car sold) then along come us "hotrodders" who think how can we make this better! so somebody sees an area that can be improved, then someone else finds a way to improve on that! and when there isn't enough to improve on then somebody else says we'll make our own line from scratch and include all those plus more, hence the "aftermarket" parts are born!  which give us "car guys" OPTIONS!!! to be able to custom taylor things just the way we want to!!!so i'll leave you guys with my most famous quote that i'm known for always saying--- "LIFE'S TOO SHORT, TO DRIVE STOCK"!!! ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: Grantorinosport351
Date Posted: 18-August-2014 at 11:17PM
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And or crap john ------------- ~Bryan 72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 19-August-2014 at 1:42AM
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I have a set of 78 model 302 heads in storage. They have been mildly reworked, screw-in studs. Tried selling them and was told that they were the worst SBF heads ever made. Tried getting $50 for them, no bites. I have a 1968 302/4Bbl engine with the factory 4V heads. Not much difference, I'll bet between 2V and 4V heads back then. In fact, a popular upgrade was to bolt on a set of 351W 4V heads that had been milled to keep the compression up. In short, a mid-70's basically stock 302 is just a reliable engine, but not a powerhouse. Newer is better. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 19-August-2014 at 9:55AM
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78-up 302 and 351 use the same heads (with bigger bolt holes on the 351) until the end of carbueration. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 19-August-2014 at 10:00AM
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The 1969 351W 4V heads were great heads that would greatly increase the 302's breathing. But, to get the full effect, they needed to be slightly milled or run on a block with higher compression. I was not aware of the '78 - up versions being the same. No demand here for them. CL has some great deals, as this is Chevrolet country, not Ford. Great for buying, sucks for selling. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 19-August-2014 at 10:03AM
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289 heads, 2 bbl or 4 bbl. smaller combustion chambers and decent ports. Like the 1969 351 heads, they will need hardened valve seats, eventually. That and a good cam/intake/exhaust. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: fordpower
Date Posted: 19-August-2014 at 10:35AM
| Some people just think its cool to do the iron heads.My 302 that does not run has 1974 falcon heads and block.I know ford did not make a falcon in 74 but all markings state 74 falcon. The prev. owner had the heads redone 2.0 stainless chev val. drilled for 1.6 roller rockers It now has we believe a crack in the right exhaust seat. |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 20-August-2014 at 12:23PM
| If I choose to go with the Edelbrock kit....How hard is it to install? Honestly it doesn't look very hard at. I actually have worked on cars a lot but it's been mostly body work, paint, tune ups, brakes, some front end work stuff like that. The thing that really scare me is degreeing the cam the right way. |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 20-August-2014 at 12:47PM
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if you can do all that other stuff , then you can do this! i just set all of mine using the "o" degree mark on adjustable timing sets. but using a degree wheel and checking your true TDC is not a bad idea since someone may have mixed and matched different parts on your engine??? probably the hardest part is lifting the cam up and through each cam bearing (find a 6" bolt that threads into the end of the cam, to use as a "handle") ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 20-August-2014 at 12:52PM
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The hardest part will be putting the timing cover back on (if you do the work w/engine in car). Other then that, simple stuff. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 20-August-2014 at 1:40PM
| Thanks you guys, There's so much experience and knowledge on this forum it's awesome! |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 21-August-2014 at 1:13AM
| My next question is about headers....the car has a brand-new exhaust system on it with flow masters. But it has the stock exhaust manifolds on it. If I'm doing this upgrade I mise well through headers on there too. But, I don't really want to have to modify the exhaust system so it looks like I would have to get shorty headers instead of full length headers. Is there a shorty that would be the same length as the stocks that with just bolt on to the down pipes with out modification? |
Posted By: dave302
Date Posted: 21-August-2014 at 1:46AM
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The passenger side exhaust manifold is probably going to be shorter than the passenger side shorty headers that you will find and it has a longer down pipe than the driver side. The drivers side exhaust manifold is a little bit longer (it has a shorter down pipe), but i believe you will still have to modify the down pipe on that side also. Unless they make direct replacement headers. In the link below you can see many pictures of the different shorty headers that are available for your car/engine combination and you can compare them to yours. Maybe one of the other members will know of an exact brand of shorty headers that are a direct bolt on replacement. |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 21-August-2014 at 1:09PM
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i went with the jba 351w headers on my car fit well, excellent quality, not cheap, but since you have a 302, the 302 ones were quite a bit less money. a local exhaust shop should be able to just make a short head pipe to weld onto your existing system as long as it's in good shape. ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 21-August-2014 at 2:46PM
Cool thanks. The whole exhaust system from the manifolds back is brand new stainless. |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 21-August-2014 at 2:58PM
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nice! don't try to use the 351w headers on your 302 they are close to the tranny bellhousing on the passenger side, the 302 is narrower at the head (351w taller wider block- so their heads are farther away) ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 21-August-2014 at 4:19PM
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80s-90 Mustang GT factory headers fit a Torino with no issue. ------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 22-August-2014 at 2:34AM
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I have a set of those "Shorties" for sale cheap. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: weaverT1971
Date Posted: 22-August-2014 at 2:56AM
PM sent |