Engines...how loyal are you?
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Forum Name: General Automotive Technical Discussion
Forum Description: Technical Automotive discussion of anything not specific to mid-size Ford/Merc
URL: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=13037
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Topic: Engines...how loyal are you?
Posted By: occupant
Subject: Engines...how loyal are you?
Date Posted: 20-November-2014 at 2:52PM
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The basis for this poll is some activity on some of the Facebook groups I'm a member of, specifically, people complaining about LS swaps in Ford products. I'm of the opinion that if I'm able to get my hands on another 74-76 Gran Torino sedan or wagon, that I will not be interested in going through all the trouble of installing a 302/351 engine, adding fuel injection, finding an AOD that isn't shot, fabricating all the things to mount it, linkage up to it, and rewire everything, just to have an engine that is slightly better than what the car had stock. Ford dropped the ball in my opinion with the Modular engines. They're too wide to fit anything worth putting them into. They're not pushrod engines. They aren't nearly as efficient as some other engines. I would be much more likely to install an EFI 318 Chrysler engine and 44RE automatic. Or more likely than that, the 4.8 or 5.3 liter Chevy LS engine and a 4L60E automatic. I've been quite impressed by the driving qualities of my Suburban (and my wife's Durango we had before it). Those engines in a lighter, lower, longer vehicle would provide better performance, better economy, and be easier to find parts for. I'm not saying I don't like Ford engines. I was happy with the 351C in place of the 351M in my '76 sedan. I even liked the 351M for what it was, just not for its voracious fuel and oil appetite. The Cleveland sounded great, pulled good, and once I dealt with the starter and distributor issues, easy to start and run. I also like the EFI 302 and 351W engines for the same reasons, but also know they would be on the same level of difficulty swapping them as swapping in anything else. |
Replies:
Posted By: gpd294
Date Posted: 20-November-2014 at 3:19PM
In my humble opinion, theres nothing worse than looking under a hood of a FORD and not seeing FORD blue' ------------- Carlos....1975 Gran Torino Squire Station Wagon restored to look like a 1973 Torino Station Wagon my Dad bought new from McAnary Ford on June 6, 1973 in Gary,Indiana |
Posted By: 72 RS 351
Date Posted: 20-November-2014 at 3:25PM
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To swap any engine into an older Ford that isn't bone stock, or plug and play, that will require similar amounts of wiring modifications, plus various amounts of non stock accessories and brackets, transmission issues etc. So it should really come down to the potential of the engine/trans, and how true to a Ford or manufacturer you are. I don't consider any non Ford engine worthy for any Ford of mine, period. The Cleveland engine design is the best ever made by anyone, to this day(except for variable cam timing technology). All NASCAR engines have Cleveland based heads, including the POS Toyotas which don't even sell a pushrod engine V8. The latest modular Fords are finally competitive after 20+ years of redesigns and development. They finally make decent HP/liter for an OHC engine. If I had to pick a fully modern latest super efficient engine, it would be those new Ford engines. But I think that level of wiring and to include the needed sensors and components, it's too much for me to put in an older car. Thus even if I would consider the LS, it too would beg to have the latest versions, with the same new wiring etc, no thanks. But I do love the Cleveland heads, and given the right match of head/intake/cam etc, they can be very sweet. I will build a 302 based Clevor stroker, using CHI 185 or 215 3V heads, using a stock 96-98 Explorer operating system, PCM/wiring/trans, and the front accessories. Those parts are still readily available, and not expensive at all. Modifying the wiring to adapt to the old Ford will not be plug and play, but it will not be a big deal to alter the engine bay harness etc, or replace it completely(modified of course) with one from an Explorer. With EFI and 352 CI, I expect 500hp at under 6500rpm. Other people will choose to build 408-427's for less money(stock Windsor block), and end up with closer to 600hp. I'm not thrilled with the idea of a big monster 460/512+ engine and carb, and have to deal with that weight, fuel mileage and the carb driveability. I'm sold on EFI, it's worth it when you get it done and right. Regards, ------------- Don 73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
Posted By: GTW
Date Posted: 20-November-2014 at 3:28PM
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I voted anything in anything, but I've been holding out for a 302 in the wagon. Got plenty of GM engines laying around we could toss in, though. If I didn't feel like cutting the shock towers out of the Maverick I wouldn't mind slapping something else in there too. The 2JZ Maverick is pure greatness. ------------- Griffin 1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 20-November-2014 at 3:36PM
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FORD PERIOD! Pop the hood on your Ford and I see a Chebby... I have NO DESIRE to even look at that car again! At the Street Rod Nationals I see all the old Ford T-Buckets, Model A's etc... Then I see those damn side by side 2 center header pipes... no need to look at or investigate that sh*t any more, walk on by! I'll actually tune out a guy who while talking says he has a Chebby in his Ford... Convo DONE, peace out, later!!! I like a couple chebbys but NO CROSSBREEDING!!! I don't even like Fords in Chebby! As for putting an LS because it is better or easier... NOT! same issues with an LS as upping to EFI. Wiring, mounts, driveshafts, headers, exhaust etc... The money and time you spend trying to put an LS/Tranny in a Ford, I could build a ford motor and everything bolts right up! just my opinion, but hey, do whatever floats your boat! ------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: GTW
Date Posted: 20-November-2014 at 3:45PM
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I'll go ahead and say that I'm also on the "LS all the things" boat.
Who knows, I might have the first LS powered Gran Torino  ------------- Griffin 1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
Posted By: kychevyguy
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 12:35AM
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As some of you know me well enough to know that I am not a hater of any one specific brand. (Well, maybe Nissan due to a past issue with a lemon and how corp handled the situation.) I like all brands and each have their place. The LS series of engines from GM is a great engine to transplant into almost anything that General Motors makes. I think the engine mfr should match the car mfr though. I have never liked seeing a small block chevy in between the fenders of a FoMoCo product. This includes the iconic 32 Ford roadster. I am fully aware that the aftermarket had 5 times the parts available for the small block chevy versus ford. But I feel that a Ford vehicle should still have a Ford running gear (whether a newer version with AOD and FI, or an old flathead.) Keep a Ford in a Ford. Keep a Chevy in a Chevy. Keep a Mopar in a Mopar. I'm saying this to my Ford buddies, just as I say it to my Chevy buddies; life is too short to be hatin on any one group of car. There are Ford haters, just as there are Chevy haters. ------------- JT, USAF Ret./Architect 1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 3:00AM
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Ah, the conundrum of it all. As some on here know, I have had dismal luck with almost every Chevrolet I have ever owned. From my first car (a 1977 Vega) to the asinine '65 Malibu SS sitting under my carport. The only Chevrolet I've had good service out of was Stranger (my 1989 S10 with the Ranger Splash bed). I loved that truck and C and I were visibly upset when it drove away. That being said, I have had issues with my classic Fords of late. Some from sitting idle, some from poor parts, some from just poor Ford engineering. I am not alone, as every meet we've had, someone has had issues with their car. I understand that we are dealing with 70's technology, but come on - none are original cars with all original parts. That points to an engineering or design issue. I am also not a fan of Big Block engines - too heavy, too thirsty, generate too much heat. A properly built small block with a power adder will suck the pistons out of a big block for the same coin. Argue if you want, but give me a budget of $4k to build either, install in identical vehicles and the small block will win. I, too, won't look at an older Ford or Mopar with a 1st or 2nd gen Chevrolet engine. It is basically a travesty in my eyes. I do appreciate an old Olds, Buick, or Cadillac stuffed between the fenders of an old rod. Different and cool. I am also a fan of the Mopar engines (with the exception of the 4.7),and have owned many - from the 2.2's all the way to the 440's. A 318 (5.2 liter) and the Jeep 4.0 are as bulletproof and receptive to mods as any engine ever made. 400K miles on a Jeep 4.0 is not uncommon - that speaks for itself. That engine was initially designed by AMC, but vastly improved by Mopar. The Modular Fords. I've seen them with 300K running well and 30K grenaded. Upkeep is key, but these earlier engines had horrific design flaws. Plug threads in heads not sufficient to hold a plug in? WTF? Head gasket issues? Really? Intake manifolds eating themselves? Ridiculous. I have an '03 CVPI (4.6) and an '01 F150 (5.4) - both over 200K, but maintained extremely well...and lucky, too. Did I mention their width? I know why Ford designed them this way, but their thinking was flawed. Coyote engines have great promise, but I'll wait to see one with 200K. Haven't yet. Ford AOD transmission? If it is stock, it is poorly designed and a ticking bomb. Modified and rebuilt, it is awesome. The LS engines. Yes, a Chevrolet engine, but undeniably better designed than it's counterparts. The GM AOD's? Vastly better than Ford. From the initial 700R all the way to the current versions. You can buy a boneyard 5.3, clean it up, slap on a turbo or supercharger and watch 500+ horsepower on the dyno. Day in, day out and 20 mpg. Compactly designed, beautifully packaged, and cheap. Recipe for success and popularity. Now, what are my preferences? Varied. My 4 speed will always have a Cleveland between it's fenders. My '76 will always have a Windsor between it's fenders. The red wagon..., well, I have the opportunity to cross-breed it with an LS drivetrain. Will I do it? I have not decided, but I will say that one of the wagons will have an LS drivetrain in it and the other will have a built 5.0 and a 5 speed. Put your emotions aside for a moment and hear me out: The brown wagon has it's 429 and C6. Over half a ton of heat generating, emission-strangled, poorly-designed, inefficiently accessorized cast iron lard. Barely over 200 horsepower pulling a 2.5 ton automobile with a power-gobbling 3 speed automatic and a 4:10 rear end. If you looked at the specs on a sheet of paper, you'd think it was designed in a 3rd world country. Yank all that dead weight out, get a drivetrain that weighs two-thirds that amount with 400 horsepower, highly efficient overdrive transmission, better accessories and stupendously better reliability and economy. Paint it Blue, install fake valve covers over the coil packs and voila! Something you'll want to drive every day BECAUSE YOU CAN. Still the same Ford wagon with the ill-fitting panels, no-support seats, and cushy ride, but now 2X as powerful, better handling, unleaded/E85 fuel friendly, and 20 mpg+. Hit the loud pedal and you can torch the tires for far less than a build on that old 429. If it bothers you so much, just don't open the hood. In fact, you probably won't need to unless it is ready for an oil change. Perhaps I am getting older. Perhaps I am getting smarter. I don't know. However, what I do know is that I love driving my old cars. Repeat, I love driving my old cars. I don't love seeing them sit in the driveway with a tow rope dangling beneath them. I don't love standing beside them on a highway in the heat or cold waiting on a ride. I don't love driving away from them sitting on that road - all alone and vulnerable. I don't love spending hours tracing down the reason why they only run when I'm alone and then take a big sh!t when I'm surrounded by people. If I can circumvent that by simply doing an drivetrain swap once and then enjoy that car for years and years without the mad scramble before a trip and piling tools/parts/fluids in the rear, I'm gonna do it. Sorry to be so long, but heck, guys. Would we drive our Ford engines to a meet powering a box van? Nope. We drive our Torinos, Galaxies, Falcons, F100's, Mavericks, Pintos, Montegos, etc to shows and meets. It's the cars, boys, the cars. **Let me clarify my opinion by stating that my wagons are not valuable vehicles - therefore originality is not a concern. However, on a collector car or a "required numbers-matching" vehicle to maintain it's monetary value, by all means, stay with the original type drivetrain ** ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: mkshelton
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 6:30AM
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Here here Joe! ------------- "Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel" |
Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 6:46AM
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No love for Coyotes? ------------- Paul 77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 7:26AM
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I love the Coyotes. Just not sure of the durability. Installing a Coyote drivetrain in a Torino-based car would be horrifically expensive, though. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: lynchster
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 7:29AM
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I've driven a lot of cars and like a little something about all of them.Not enough to cross swap manufacturers though. For me it's an identity issue. I'll always prefer Fords but my daily driver right now is a supercharged Buick. Far better than the old escort wagon I was using. Heated seats in the winter are too damned awesome.  ------------- Chuck 72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
Posted By: n2fordwagons
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 7:48AM
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I love most all American car makers, especially classic and muscle cars. I like imports too. But, I can't stand to see a non-matching drivetrain. It just don't seem right. ------------- Jeff 71 Torino Brougham 72 Gran Torino Squire |
Posted By: GTW
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 10:01AM
3800? I wouldn't ever be worried about one breaking. ------------- Griffin 1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
lynchster wrote:Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 12:39PM
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Swapped a lot of engines, usually fords in fords, mopars in mopars, and GM in GM (alls fair in GM swaps, Buicks in chevys, caddys in buicks, pontiacs etc) but really, how is swapping a 302 into a Volvo any worse than pulling the Isuzu 4 out of a Chevette to put in an Iron Duke, or a G.M. 2.8?(or a small-block, a big-block,) Once you decide to swap out the engine for something that wasn't offered (and doesn't fit anyway) then the car isn't original, If you will have to fabricate parts either way...what's the difference.. I will admit I'm bored with small-block chevys, but I saw a T-bucket with a slant 6, that was neat! Sometimes weird is fun! In the end, it's your car, and YOU have to live with it. Do what makes YOU happy. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 1:43PM
 oh boy! this could turn into a hundred page thread! i own and like many different cars. i've probably worked on most of them and drove most of them some i like some i don't. i'll drive old cars till the day i die! love em, more style easy to work on simple (fix one on the side of the road and get going) these new cars with all this electronic sh*t??? try fixing that on the side of the road! hell it'll take you three days just to find the engine under all that crap!i'll agree with joe on the sb vs bb ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: 72 RS 351
Date Posted: 21-November-2014 at 2:48PM
I don't know about the reliability of them, they are new though. But I can point you to a place that very likely could provide the engine and all supporting pieces. I'm trying to find the time to drive back to the place near Madisonville, as they have the 99-04 Mustang wiring that I need to convert my Lincoln to OBDII. I've seen them with super low mileage wrecked Mustangs, and finished to nearly finished one and two year old Mustangs, plus Lightning drivetrains stuck in a corner etc. I have no doubt they can get the drivetrain of choice for a late Ford. Pricing would be as expected for that kind of almost new hot engine etc, figure $6k and up. The LS stuff is becoming cheaper for the same reason all Fox Mustang parts blew away all comparable Chevy parts back in those days. The newest Ford stuff is still new enough and rare, such that it will take a few years to bring the prices down. Chevy invested tons of millions of dollars into saving their pushrod engines, titanium rods and aluminum blocks being stock parts in some, that mass production is what brought the prices down. Ford could have done that, and given how huge they made the modular engines versus the displacement, I would rather have kept the pushrods. The engines should be smaller outside, not bigger, and with more size potential. ------------- Don 73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 22-November-2014 at 10:15AM
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The Chrysler 4.7 with the overhead cams is a LOT smaller than the ford 4.6, so it's not just the overhead cams. The mod motors are just large, godawful overcomplicated, and too much bother to swap into the torino chassis, for a motor that makes about the same HP as a 302, but has nowhere near the low RPM torque. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 23-November-2014 at 2:08AM
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There are some Ford engine swaps I want to try. I want to put a 2.3 Duratec and a T-5 manual into a Falcon/Fairlane sized car. I want to put a 3.0 Vulcan V6 and A4LD into a 68-69 Ranchero. I want to put a 5.0 Explorer V8 and 4R70W into a 74-76 Gran Torino wagon. But if I'm going to build another 74-76 Gran Torino sedan, it's probably getting a 4.8 or 5.3 LS engine, 4L60E automatic, 3.00 or 3.08 gearing, and I can get a tailshaft to use a regular speedometer cable and not do custom gauges, yet still keep the VSS signal to keep the computer happy. The only custom wiring I'll need will be things like the temperature gauge and the fuel gauge, and then making the ignition switch work with the GM setup. A couple hundred bucks for a tuner and I can get the LS's computer reflashed to remove the security system, set rev and speed limits, move shift points to match the Torino's tire size, et cetera. Heck, I may be able to do most of it with the cable set I have now. However, I'll probably do an LS swap into another GM vehicle first. Missed a chance to get a free '78 Caprice wagon so I'm looking for something similar. Would actually love an Olds 98 or Buick Park Avenue coupe from the early 80s to do it, but wouldn't turn down any B-body, 77-89. The knowledge and experience I gain from that should make doing it in a Ford product that much simpler. Joe has the right idea. If you don't like it, don't open the hood and look. Besides, there are ways to make an LS motor look like anything else.
Anyway, the stock LS valve covers are just as generic as the modular motors. Powdercoat them whatever shade of Ford blue you want, there are two styles and both are easy enough to shave smooth and recolor:  |
Posted By: Billy C
Date Posted: 23-November-2014 at 4:58AM
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I was one of the people who voted "anything in anything" because there are some sweet builds out there with extremely knowledgeable owners who have perfectly legit reasons to mix it up a bit. To write off those builds purely because of the crossbreed setup would be ignorant. I'd be much quicker to loose interest in a build that has an owner who doesn't know the intricacies of the wiring harness, cam specs, gear ratios, or chassis setup. The muscle car world seems much less accepting of the manufacture mix-ups compared to the other genres of car enthusiasts. The driving factor of this seems to be the same thing that drives die-hard sports fans. I respect this kind of manufacturer competition and recognize that it has birthed things like the GT500, GT40, Hellcat, Viper, Z06, and Z28. I proudly take part in the Mustang vs. Camaro debate among my friends fueled by a nights supply of cold beers. I'm also proud to say those same debates usually evolve into radical build concepts involving crazy drive-train swaps between manufactures. I can't imagine how many of the same exciting conversations between the engineers at "company A" about "company B" led to the development of a new idea evolved from some of "company B's" technology. All internal engine concepts are just products of steady evolution from generation to generation between all manufactures. Because of my appreciation for this progression in technology I would never call myself a "Ford" or "Honda" guy, just simply a "car" guy. ------------- -Billy Conturo |
Posted By: 72 RS 351
Date Posted: 23-November-2014 at 6:50AM
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Avoid the A4LD transmission, it's very weak. That was a 4cyl trans for mid 80's T'birds, converted with electronics to work in a 4500lbs SUV, ending up going off-roading or towing no less. The 2.3 turbo Ford is kind of forgotten, and that was a Mustang SVO and Turbo Coupe which was quicker than the 302 Mustang of the same models. Those pre 90's cars are early technology and old wiring is not good to begin with, but the concepts were good. ------------- Don 73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 23-November-2014 at 7:14AM
^^^ yeah bryan!! what he said!!!!   ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 23-November-2014 at 3:31PM
A 1968-1969 Ranchero with a V8 weighs only about 100lbs more than a mid-80s Thunderbird with the 3.8L V6. I don't see a problem there. The 3.0L engine will probably be 100lbs lighter than a Ford V8 if not even more so. I had an A4LD in an Aerostar, it was the first thing I fixed on it when it puked its guts out on I-35 south of Waco. They can be rebuilt decently. If you could mount an AOD to a Vulcan V6 I'd do it. The later 4R55 and 5R55 transmissions are the same design and depending on the year of Vulcan engine I'd use, it might have one of those instead. I think the last year for the Vulcan in the Ranger was 2008 and the updated #R## transmissions started around 1995 or so. Actually as far as the 2.3 engines go, I meant a 2.3 Duratec engine, used in Ford Rangers and Mazda B2300 pickups from 2001 to 2011. Not the old Lima four. It's technically a rebadged Mazda engine, but oh well. Quad4Rods sells an adapter to run a T-5 behind the FWD versions (think Focus, Fusion, Mazda3, Mazda6, others) if I can't find a truck model. Again, a 1968-1969 Fairlane with a 302 V8 is under 3300lbs and the 2011 Rangers (the last year) weighed between 3030lbs and 3189lbs when equipped with the 4-cylinder. I'd be real happy if the Fairlane could match the 2011 Ranger EPA ratings of 22 city 27 highway. Geared right probably more than that. |
Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 24-November-2014 at 4:46AM
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This is where I'm going with my Cougar, if the cards play right use an 11+ Fseries engine. Through a stick they are around 350whp with no engine work. I know a few fox body guys locally putting down almost 30 MPG with one. They are just mad that they spent so much $ playing with 302s when a Coyote is light years ahead of them. ------------- Paul 77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 24-November-2014 at 7:44AM
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I would absolutely consider a Coyote swap if there was an easy kit and the parts weren't so astronomical. $6K for an engine, $2K for a transmission, more for wiring, mounts, driveshaft, electronics, etc. With as many projects as I have, money is a strong consideration for each and every step. Before you know it, you have $10K in parts or a donor vehicle. Just about my budget for 3 of my cars, LOL. There were several times I considered a stroker 4.0 Jeep drivetrain for the red wagon. Plenty of power, loads of torque, and I had everything except the mounts. Still a straight six, but EFI, AOD, and a great look. The little boy in me stopped that plan - I wanted to hear the car rumble, and wanted a 5 speed transmission. All of that I have as well, so it became just a visceral preference. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 24-November-2014 at 11:52AM
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I spent/wasted and generally enjoyed an immense amount of time trying to figure out putting an EFI 300 and 5-speed manual transmission from a 91 F150 into my T-Bird. If it would have fit under the hood, it would be in there now. Intake goes over the top of the valve covers on an engine already taller than a 460. Front sump on these cars rules out a 4.2 swap (pity, I liked the 4.2 in my 02 F150). ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: MonteCobra
Date Posted: 24-November-2014 at 12:33PM
| Anything in anything, if i have a choice i'd keep things brand specific, but i was down on cash, out of work, and wanted to keep my hobby alive, i'd stick a ford in a chevy, and a chrysler in a ford if thats what it took to keep a smile on my face. |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 24-November-2014 at 1:12PM
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Don't know anything about any other engine. So it would be Ford for me. Other than that, I am Blue Oval til the day I die! I would much rather worship the Devil than switch. ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 24-November-2014 at 2:46PM
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I am also a true-blue Ford guy and would never put or run anything but a Ford engine in a Ford.........until I go out to my Superduty, lift the hood to find an International-built diesel sitting between the frame rails. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 26-March-2015 at 10:47AM
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Just seen this thread, in my opinion if it fits it fits...... I'm putting a 440 into my 73 and as a landrover owner I've stuck stupid engines into things before, 350, 454, Essex, 215 Buick all fit into the engine bay of an old LR with the right modifications and transmissions Nothing wrong with putting a better engine into a car The 440 has a better rod angle, better block durability, more power potential and sounds better! Yes it may not get 351c mileage but its a tradeoff I'm willing to make and will always be happy to make. If the positives outweigh the negatives then theres no reason not to........
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Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 26-March-2015 at 1:52PM
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didn't the newer rover have 215's in them?
------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 26-March-2015 at 6:54PM
| They did but that started in the late 70s, keepin mind I drive one from1957 |
Posted By: pdw72
Date Posted: 27-March-2015 at 2:31AM
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My '72 Ranchero is getting a '94 4.6l and aod-e as well as the front suspension upgrade to boot. http://s99.photobucket.com/user/pdwelch/media/ranchero%20in%20progress/DSCI0390_zps32278186.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Nothing burns me more than a sbc in anything other than GM cars, just because it seems to be the "go to engine" for street rodders. ------------- Paul Welch '72 Ranchero 500/'94 4.6L swap project |
Posted By: Gran Torino LS
Date Posted: 27-March-2015 at 7:08AM
Here is a LS2 swap from Hungary, Europe. Maybe like, maybe not but it's working. A great daily driver. ------------- Viktor Save the V8 monsters! |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 27-March-2015 at 7:32AM
| I wish I had the space to do a frame off :( |
Posted By: IndyLTD I I
Date Posted: 27-March-2015 at 9:15AM
I'm the same way. You can swap anything into anything and it doesn't bother me, unless it's a small block Chevy. Anybody can do a Chevy swap, get creative, be unique, those are the kind of cross platform swaps I like. I originally started with the intermediate Fords, because my high school parking lot was full of Novas and Chevelles. Everybody was running 350s, I wanted to be different. ------------- Lee Virden 1978 LTD II S |
Posted By: GranTorinslo
Date Posted: 21-June-2015 at 5:41PM
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I voted anything in anything, but I couldn't do a Chevy in Ford or vice versa for anything postwar. My wild n crazy build (given the funds) would be a Ford V10 go for 600hp, slap a 6 speed behind it, and toss it in a MkIII, a 72 GTS, or a 70/71 Torino convertible. Would love to see the newest Ford ecoboost 4 (Stang) in an SVO clone build, or the ecoboost TTV6 (SHO, MKZ, explorer and everything else) in an older (brit powered) capri/escort or a Maverick, etc. Heck put one in a First gen SHO, take that motor (Yamaha DOHC) and throw it in a small older ford. Seen one of those in a GT40 clone. Could also take the turbo 6 and show people why they don't put em in mustangs (add a tuner and beat the pants off v8s), that is assuming the 3.7 mustang isn't turbo, the Ford website doesn't say and the Ti in the motor designation stands for stuff on the VTECH. You all are tempting me to try the 440 swap...though if I did it I'd want to do a manual conversion so the fact I have the motor doesn't help much. Question for me is do it in the 72 or 73 (both sadly aren't fastbacks) ------------- 
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Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 21-June-2015 at 8:24PM
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My soon to be turbo 440 is now a manual, just waiting on the flywheel and bellhousing bearing convertor, using the original A833 4 speed instead of a 727. Means if I keep the current 3:1 rear end then I'll have a nice cruising rpm and still be ok off the line with the low first gear All this said I would like to fit a hemi eventually.........if funds ever allow! ------------- Barnaby 429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 21-June-2015 at 8:25PM
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Oh mines a formal btw, would have loved a fastback but the formal is hard enough to find in the uk ------------- Barnaby 429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
Posted By: Dan the ranchero man
Date Posted: 02-July-2015 at 2:57PM
| I like the engine to be period correct BUT the engine set up can be modern. (I.E. 460 with EFI aftermarket type unit) |
Posted By: BadHabit351
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 7:14AM
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Ford's only have Ford motors; no exceptions. I've always been a Ford guy and always will be. I've cross bred many cars in my days. 260Z with a 302 4 speed, 68 Dodge van with a 351C, 74 Gremlin X with a 383 Chebbie, 70 Malibu with a 390 FE, 69 C-10 with a 500 Caddie, 76 Mercedes with a 340 Mopar, and in progress now an 85 Toyota Celica with an EFI 5.0L and T-5. One of the reasons I do mostly Ford motors is because of my familiarity with them and the shock/confusion of why it isn't a sbc. I too am no fan of Chebbie engines. It's not that they're not good engines; it's more that I am a non-comformist. I will have to say that I think the LS Chevy is over rated...but that opinion may be based on the fact that Car Craft does an article on one EVERY month. It's your car, do what ever you want, just be happy with it. I won't judge you, I just won't personally like what's been done. ------------- 1973/72 Gran Torino Sport 1971 Torino GT convertilble 2013 Ford Fusion 2004 Ford SuperDuty 2013 Mustang GT |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 8:05AM
I would agree on the LS topic if Ford had not designed the Modular 4.6 and 5.4 engines so poorly. I've only had 1 LS (never did install it in my Torino), but know many that do run them without issue. However, Ford did a bad number on us with the Modulars (Coyote being the exception) with a super wide design, low horsepower, heavy weight, and the serious design flaws with the heads and intakes. I love my Fords, but until the Coyote 5.0 came out, GM LS and Chrysler Hemi engines just ripped the Modular Fords...and you were in no danger of getting killed by an ejected spark plug from them.  Plus, Modulars are virtually impossible to retrofit into a vintage Ford without serious work. The GM and Mopar late model drivetrains are vastly easier to work with. Imagine a new HellCat Hemi in a Torino with a 6 speed. MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: BadHabit351
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 9:04AM
I disagree with your opinions on Modulars. There is no arguing that they are HUGE for their displacement. Hp and torque has been acceptable for what 95% of the engines are used for. The other 5% found that the 4.6L would readily accept forced induction...and would live! That combination isn't always mutual. The bottom end of a MOD motor is very strong. Design flaws in the heads & intakes? Initially yes, the early ones had 4 threads for the plugs. All PI heads had 7. If the proper procedure is followed torquing the plugs, none get spit out. I too am not a big fan of plastic intakes, but Ford ain't the only ones with that issue. My parents have a Buick 3.8 SC that has the intake replaced every 50-60K miles. I could go on, but I won't. I'd rather imagine that Torino with a 662 hp GT500 engine and 6 speed. I'd be fairly confident it would last for quite a few years. Not so much with the Fiat motor. ------------- 1973/72 Gran Torino Sport 1971 Torino GT convertilble 2013 Ford Fusion 2004 Ford SuperDuty 2013 Mustang GT |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 9:40AM
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I've always felt the Mod Motors were the result of disgruntled (possibly inebriated) engineers at Ford.How about self-ejecting spark plugs with a C.O.P. design that then holds the plug against the threads and beats the crap out of the threads (5.4) or the 3 valve engines where part of the plug stays in the head when you remove it, due to a multi-piece plug with a lo-o-o-ng extended tip past the threaded portion that passes thru a tunnel to get to the cylinder and would foul with carbon, sealing the tip in like it was welded. Or, the same plug would turn, and stay together, and snap part of the plug tunnel off and fall into the cylinder. TRY to get to the back plugs on a 97-04 F150 with a 4.6, or worse, a 5.4.Engines physically larger than a 460, with BARELY half the displacement, Quarter-mile long timing chains, Torque-to-yield head bolts that frequently did (yield) Uggh, Arrgh, enough. I thought there was hope when I saw "phasers" being discussed, but no... another cruel tease. . G.M.s "baby" LS, the 4.8 made 300 H.P. naturally aspirated, in a compact, simple, pushrod design. Chrysler's 4.7 was an overhead cam engine, again about the same displacement as a 4.6, making around 300 HP naturally aspirated, in a reasonable sized package. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 9:49AM
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I'd like to see a 426 wedged into one of our cars, I might even get round to it if I have time, money and a spare Torino...... as to the modular the guy I know who put one into his Ranchero has had to put a mustang 2 front clip on it as the motor was so fat.... ------------- Barnaby 429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 11:39AM
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You CAN get them in there, Lincoln Continental (FWD) oil pan and pickup tube fit with some fiddling. This is a front-sump pan.
If you have a unibody torino/ranchero... THAT will take some cutting. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 12:33PM
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You will not find me installing an LS motor in anything. Not a fan of anyone who wants to LS swap a Ford. I am not scared to let people know how I feel when I see one either. If you want an LS motor. Do us all a favor and buy a GM. Please leave them out of our cars. I am not a huge fan of mod motors either. Who puts an engine in a vehicle that you have to lift the body to change one out. ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 06-November-2015 at 10:28PM
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You must hate every non ford engined Torino then..... ------------- Barnaby 429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 12:31AM
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I don't hate the car. I just pretty much hate the Chevy people who make remarks about how Fords suck. It only fuels their fire. That is what I hate. ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 12:32AM
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If you grew up in the neighborhood that I did, you would understand my position on this. If you feel that Chevy makes a better product, by all means go and buy you one. ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 12:57AM
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They're all pretty similar. Remember the Torino is designed by the same guy who did the chevelle ------------- Barnaby 429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 1:31AM
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I like Chevelles. I don't own one but I like them. ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 5:12AM
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I have 135K on my 2003 4.6 no issues, bone stock motor but running slightly upgraded intake system with the Marauder air box, larger MAF, 2004 CVPI zip tube & an Aviator throttle body. an SCT Excal II programmer with a reflash from Lonnie at Blue Oval Chips makes it all play nice with each other. no it wouldn't be my choice to swap into a strange chassis the LS series is a rip-off of Ford's 335 series masterpiece, the Cleveland family. there's even a kit to use a Ford Cleveland distributor for older car swaps & the head bolt pattern is identical! stock  non stock. significant difference, who would know?  ------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 3:39PM
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I'm currently driving a generic Nissan Altima. I'd take anything in anything that isn't an appliance at this point. But I'm revisiting this topic to mention there are plenty of used Coyote engines out there. A junkyard in Aurora IL is offering a complete dropout Coyote with auto trans and wiring harness for $7500. That's not bad for what you get. A yard in Lima has a few manual trans 5.0's for $5800 each. However, $925 gets me engine ($350), trans ($400), computer ($30), and full underhood wiring harness ($145) for a 4.8 or 5.3 and auto GM truck. That leaves a lot of money on the table versus a Coyote. At the moment I'm trying to come up with a car for my wife. Suburban is about done for unless I can figure out why it's eating up our tires and making horrible sounds going down the road. Changed hub assemblies, did brakes, did ball joints, it's still feeling like it wants to come apart. I'm going to find her something nice and put the Suburban up for awhile. I have a feeling it's going to be a powertrain donor for my next project and now I'm excited. That 5.3 and 4L60E in any *car* will be awesome. The three ton Suburban moves nice with it, 3.73 gears, and massive 265/75R16 tires (about 31.6" diameter). 4.6 engines are great. I like the way they feel. I don't like how BIG they are. 318 Chryslers and 302 Fords are narrow and fit in tiny little Japanese cars. Mod motors are wider than big block engines. Crazy... |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 5:12PM
is your suburban 4X4? if so also check the front CV axles! i just bought a new pair for my s-10 blazer, i've already replaced one hub (stupid design IMO) and now it needs both new hubs, axles, pitman arm and idler arm. i'm sure that the 33x12.50 tires aren't too kind on the bearings but still the o'reily's hub only has about 400 miles and it is sloppy again  i'd think it should last longer than that!
------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: kychevyguy
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 11:51PM
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I like the 4.6 I have in my lil' explorer. Moves it out quite nicely. I understand the comments about the size of the Mod. When I first started my F100 project and knew I was putting a crown vic front end on it, I considered using a Mod because I knew I had a large engine bay and could have accommodated it better than something like a Torino. Staying with my 351W though. ------------- JT, USAF Ret./Architect 1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 11:55PM
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The Torino's bay is huge at any rate! I've not seen a mod motor in the flesh but having worked with modern engines (Bentley W12 and V8) I know that they're wider than my 500 cube V8 and have between half to two thirds the displacement! Its ridiculous how much extra space they manage to take up, mainly because they're more of a cube shape instead of the traditional V ------------- Barnaby 429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
Posted By: kychevyguy
Date Posted: 07-November-2015 at 11:59PM
Alex, was it you who was wanting to get a Chevelle and drop in a 351C in it and then take it to shows to see the reactions? Lol ------------- JT, USAF Ret./Architect 1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 08-November-2015 at 1:29AM
------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: Nuggets
Date Posted: 08-November-2015 at 1:51AM
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The sump isn't really a big issue though, it now basically sits on the factory mounts. You can buy them pre manufactured if you give the dimensions you need to either MTS or 500CID Intake wise yeah they aren't great but you've got a few options now, Edelbrock Performer, MTS single plane which is similar to a Torker/Weiand Xcelerator, Boogie man which is like a high rise Torker and thats about all you need really I did suggest on the Facebook page that a thread on what engines fit in the bay with what mods might be helpful to some. ------------- Barnaby 429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 09-November-2015 at 6:45AM
2WD truck, stock 265/75R16 tires (about 31.6" diameter, 11 inches wide), and the hubs failed because truck has 248K on it and the last couple winters here in Ohio have left really huge potholes. One of those was large enough to destroy the left side hub. I guess replacing it made the right side one angry and when I pulled it it was loose to the point you could move the tire/wheel an inch in any direction with no weight on it. Tight ball joints. Tight control arms. Tight lug nuts. The hub came apart into pieces when we pulled it. These trucks don't have a way to replace just the wheel bearing. You get hub, bearing, lug studs, and ABS sensor as one piece. Looks like this: 
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Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 09-November-2015 at 1:43PM
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oh i know! i don't have ABS but same thing, no way to adjust or service them, that's what i meant by "stupid design" yeah they are easy to change but!... i've heard that the timkin ones are the best (about $200 a pair) i don't care really about the cost as long as they last and aren't a cheap POS!! i don't want to spent $200 for a $50 POS
------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 09-November-2015 at 2:11PM
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CJ, Lately, even the Timken brand is hit and miss as far as quality goes. We have 5 Ford SD's and have put front unitized bearing hubs on all of them. Timken units used to go 100K then they got cheap(not in dollars but in quality) and they would go out after 10K(way too early for a $300+ part), tried a cheaper version off of Ebay($150 for the pair #515021) and have been on my personal F250 4x4 for 5 years and over 85K. Autozone sells a decent unitized bearing hubs but once again, they are hit and miss on quality. Good luck!
------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: Billy C
Date Posted: 10-November-2015 at 7:16AM
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I re-read this thread every so often just because it's always interesting to see what folks have to say on the topic. I'm sticking by my first post but will elaborate and bring some of my tech opinions into this. Since we have thoroughly discussed engine choices and downfalls of different brands I'd like to introduce something else. I feel like the transmission options with an engine is more important. I love a manual purely for the feel and excitement it brings to driving so I might be slightly biased. I respect a well designed dual clutch or automatic and recognize those are the paths to faster lap times in most cases. Most of my engine preferences come from what can easily get bolted to those engines. Any clever builder/tuner can make power and torque out of almost any engine but getting that power to the ground in a fun and reliable way is another story. The Lexus/Toyota 1UZ V8 is prime example of a great engine with tons of power potential and almost no easy and fun way to get the power to the ground. It's basically an LS with DOHC. The problem is I don't think it ever came with a manual option and the auto it came with is weak and slow. In order to make it work, some super custom adapters are required to go to something like a T56. There are tons of great engines out there but way less great transmissions. So that leads me to the next question for the Ford die-hards out there. Once you build your 600ft/lb cleveland stroker motor to run with the power house Chevy strokers, what are you going to use to get that power to the ground in a fun, connected, street-able manor? Are you going to sacrifice that OD gear and go with a toploader or kitted c6 power-robber slush-box or, are you going to go with a large input T56 that was originally designed for the Viper and later adapted to every high performance LS? There is a reason the LS is so popular. Not only is it a great engine but it has great bolt on transmission options for RWD applications. I'd rather have a mild engine and a fun transmission than tons of power and a transmission that shifts like crap and sends parts through the floor. Just something to think about. ------------- -Billy Conturo |
Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 10-November-2015 at 2:37PM
I have never heard this? Are you talking the exterior design? And who's the guy? ------------- Vince 1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 2:15AM
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I agree with Billy. I also prefer a manual transmission and am converting the red wagon from a 3 speed to a 5 speed, will be doing a 5 speed swap on my '76, doing the 4.6/6 speed Cobra setup in my old Cougar, and have seriously contemplated going with a manual in the Squire eventually. Shifting is way too much fun and really transforms most all street-driven cars for the better. I do not keep my cars in the garage, nor are they Sunday drivers. I drive mine year-round and put the miles on them, so I have a pretty good handle on what works nowadays if I want to have fun without constantly watching the gas gauge or stress about kicking it on the highway regularly. My opinion... Unfortunately, you cannot rely on an outdated street 3 speed automatic in these times for optimum performance combined with economy and keeping an engine in it's prime sweet spot during acceleration. Just not enough gears and overdrive. Remove the 3.50's in your 9 inch and install 2.49's to get the highway economy but kill the performance. Keep the 3.50's and kill the m.p.g. Ford's overdrive automatic transmissions are notoriously bad. Now I know there will be people who say their Ford AOD transmissions have 300K and still go strong (my own F150 has 231K on it's AOD and shifts like new), but the vast majority do fail early, at least before they should, and are absolutely not known for performance applications. A Toploader is a fine transmission for what it is, but there are much better options out there, and it is not known for it's smoothness nor it's efficiency. That leaves a 5 speed or 6 speed, Gear Vendors, or go with something performance-built costing $$. A T-56 is just the best option for durability, street fun, and performance/economy. It is also affordable, adaptable, tough, and readily available. I say all this because I don't baby my cars, I drive them. Daily. Mine have left me stranded on several occasions, but I learn more every time. That is precisely the reason I was looking for an alternative drivetrain that I could install to allow me to enjoy the car in any weather, reliably. Yes, I did buy a complete LS drivetrain to install in the red wagon, but I decided against it primarily because I didn't want to muddy the waters and also wanted to go with the 5 speed combo I had on hand. Looking at it from my thin bank account: I'd like 500 horsepower, reliability, stand-alone harness, serpentine, EFI and overdrive. Build a typical SBF or BBF/AOD combo plus all the trinkets to that level is going to cost me around $9K to $14K. Cannot find a used, low-mileage combo anywhere. Coyote setups require too much work and are as expensive. I can find a used low mileage GM LS-based setup with stand-alone wiring harness, CPU, AOD, serpentine that has the above-mentioned requirements for $4 - $8K. And get an install kit for around $500. This daily-driver combination will live happily for many years, get better economy, and I can drive to AutoZone and get any part I need. Cheap. It is also lighter in weight and more compact. Not that I would go this route to completion, but I could. Now, I am not trying to upset anyone, I am just speaking from my own perspective. I love Ford cars and Ford engines. I do. I do NOT like Chevrolet vehicles at all. But I also recognize the fact that there are other brands of drivetrains that honestly have the technological jump on Ford and far more aftermarket support. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 4:51AM
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Joe, you know that you didn't do the LS swap because I might never speak to you again. I won't run an LS for the same reason some people won't root for the Crimson Tide Football team, UK Basketball or the Dallas Cowboys. ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: gpd294
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 4:54AM
Hey now...for the record the Dallas Cowboys are AMERICA's team! Don't beat me up guys!
 ------------- Carlos....1975 Gran Torino Squire Station Wagon restored to look like a 1973 Torino Station Wagon my Dad bought new from McAnary Ford on June 6, 1973 in Gary,Indiana |
Posted By: GTW
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 5:07AM
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Sometimes I wonder what all would be required to put a LS in a Torino, and we already have a member with a LS Torino. Surely it's easier than cutting off the frame to put a Coyote in. I'd put a Coyote in, but the LS is probably easier to install and I don't care about the drivetrain matching the car's brand. ------------- Griffin 1973 Gran Torino station wagon 1972 Gran Torino 4 Door 1971 Maverick 2 Door |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 8:56AM
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I shutter at the thought of Chevy powered Torinos but they are your cars and you can do what you want. ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 9:06AM
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I won't do it. Just too afraid of seeing a Kentucky Wildcat fan in a Jason mask with a torch and can of gas by my car, LOL. On a brighter note, a Ranchero with a Cummings 4bt would be cool. Turbo that sucka and get stump-pulling torque with 30 mpg. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: antlerfiend
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 9:49AM
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I wouldn't take it out on your car. Your car can't help that you are cheap and want to take the easy way out. LOL ------------- Alex 72 GTS (Morgan's Baby) 68 CJ Drag Car Clone 65 Mustang (first car) 77 LTD II (Drag Car) 78 Mustang II V6 4 speed |
Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 9:50AM
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Hahahah..wait...oh yeah I am cheap. Hahahaha. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 11:17AM
(Insert snare-drum riff here!)------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: stanman
Date Posted: 11-November-2015 at 11:31AM
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So Joe....is the reason you don't keep your cars in the garage because you don't want them to get spoiled? Or because they won't fit?....... 
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Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 12-November-2015 at 1:44AM
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Randy, I never thought of that. If so, they should all run perfectly well to avoid the trailer... Stan, I cannot lie. They just won't fit. ------------- Joe 1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
Posted By: Lukalele
Date Posted: 02-March-2024 at 1:59PM
| I know im reviving an almost decade old thread, but who has the LS swapped Torino? I have a 76 Ford Elite that I ripped the 351m out of and am searching for mounts for an LS. |
Posted By: 72 RS 351
Date Posted: 03-March-2024 at 2:37AM
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Get a Coyote engine, those are faster in stock form than a 2003/04 Mustang Cobra. A new F150 4WD will outrun most old sports cars, the 1/4 mile time is 13.4 seconds, stock. Hunt a used 2015 or newer F150 engine and trans, wiring and all, Leave it stock, just concentrate on the swap stuff. ------------- Don 73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 03-March-2024 at 5:05PM
There was someone years ago from the middle east that had done an LS swap in a Torino, but they only made a post or two and never came back. Other than that, the only other one I know of us this project that is currently on going: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/1972-ranchero-build-doing-it-my-way_topic20993.html" rel="nofollow - https://forum.grantorinosport.org/1972-ranchero-build-doing-it-my-way_topic20993.html ------------- Vince 1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
Posted By: Inkara1
Date Posted: 03-March-2024 at 5:19PM
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I was about to say there's someone I saw on Facebook with a 1976 Elite they're swapping in an LS out of a truck he got for $800, but I think you're the same guy. That body looks to be in nice shape. ------------- 1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason. |
Posted By: 351CID
Date Posted: 04-March-2024 at 1:35AM
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20 years ago, I picked up a 73 Ranchero GT for $202 in Norfolk, VA. It had been wrecked, but it only involved the bumper and right side fender. The guy was planning on rebuilding the car, but a divorce changed all plans and he had to get rid of it. He put it on eBay and I won it. I also have a clear title in my name. I bought the car for the new poly urethane front suspension and the Centerline wheels. It also had a rear sway bar. All these parts went on my GTS. As I was doing my work, I discovered this car is 100% rust free. I have disassembled this car to the bare bones....no rust to be found (other than some flash rust). I sealed it with Rust Encapsulater to seal and preserve it. It was from CA and apparently well taken care of. The navy guy I bought it from was transferred to Norfolk and brought it with him. I've has this car in my shop ever since because I didn't want such a prime example to deteriorate. Five years ago, I was contacted by a guy who was looking for a full frame intermediate to build a hot rod with. We chatted back and forth and he came to see the car. He agreed it was in amazing shape and offered me $3000 for the car and all it's parts. I told him I had sold the 400 / C-6, but would throw in a 460 / C-6 for him. That's when he stated that "Oh, I don't need and engine since I plan on doing a twin turbo LS". That's when the deal fell apart. I just explained to him that I didn't save this car just for some idiot to fornicate it with another LS swap. I walked away from a $3000 profit. Do what you want with your car. I will not participate or enable you. I've cross bred many different engines into chassis; but my Ford's have always been (and will be) "Powered by Ford". Just my opinion on this subject.
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Posted By: Dan the ranchero man
Date Posted: 04-March-2024 at 2:57AM
| I agree with your message! |
Posted By: Wixbullitt
Date Posted: 04-March-2024 at 5:00AM
| Well said, if you want a Chevy motor buy a chevelle. |